Alright.... the e-power mod

[AttyPops]

I was thinking about a tube mod... but since the e-power came out, meh. Might as well get an e-power since it is a nice finished design (don't get me going on modumust fever). Anyway, I can't get any strait info on this bugger.

Anyone torn apart that switch to see what I would be purchasing? Like, is it regulated (PWM... I doubt it but there's a lot of misinformation on some vendor sites) or is it a power fet, or a mechanical switch?

Anyone know the specs, ratings of the switch? What if I use LR's on them?

I know I can build one, with a 2xAA box in particular (I did that a year ago)... but I don't have a lathe or proper threading tools for a nice tube mod... it's a nicely finished mod pre-made.

Sorry for posting a model specific question in the modder's area, but I can't get any concrete answers elsewhere and I know you guys would know, if anyone would. Who else would tear stuff apart better than the modders?

Caution: There may be more than one version of the switch. There are a lot of questions out in forum-land on this unit.

Thanks in advance.

 

[birdbrains]

I was thinking about a tube mod... but since the e-power came out, meh. Might as well get an e-power since it is a nice finished design (don't get me going on modumust fever). Anyway, I can't get any strait info on this bugger.

Anyone torn apart that switch to see what I would be purchasing? Like, is it regulated (PWM... I doubt it but there's a lot of misinformation on some vendor sites) or is it a power fet, or a mechanical switch?

Anyone know the specs, ratings of the switch? What if I use LR's on them?

I know I can build one, with a 2xAA box in particular (I did that a year ago)... but I don't have a lathe or proper threading tools for a nice tube mod... it's a nicely finished mod pre-made.

Sorry for posting a model specific question in the modder's area, but I can't get any concrete answers elsewhere and I know you guys would know, if anyone would.

I'm probably not a ton of help on this one as I have not taken apart the switch and know nothing about switches--but I can say that I own an e-Power 14650 and I know that it will not fire on an atty/carto that is rated below 1.6 ohms of resistance. It works fine on dual coil cartomizers that are rated at 1.5 (because of the two coils at 3 ohms magical circuit business). The 14650 batteries that I have (unbranded, blue, no nipple, came with kit) read out on my multimeter at 4.1'ish right off the charger and slowly drain down--3.6 is the lowest I've tested them before I throw it back on the charger. I'm a moderate vaper and the 1,050 mAh 14650's I use on mine last me pretty much a whole day. I have read that the button on the 14650 is superior to the button on the 18650 model, and that some people have had issues with the button either coming out of its housing or dislodging in some way. FWIW I have not had a problem with my button or my ePower. Just thought I'd throw that out there for you!

 

[TMellow]

I don't know much about the workings on the inside but here are my observations. It will not fire mt lr 306's but will fire lr dual coils. The vapor does not seem to drop off when the battery is low telling me that it may be regulated.

 

[AttyPops]

Thanks so far for the info guys. FYI - the unit doesn't know single vs dual coil... it only know ohms. The DC's are rated at 1.6 (two 3.2 ohm coils) as I understand it, which is why it works.

Sometimes the cut out is due to a mosfet, sometimes battery protection. IMRs may help. IDK for sure.

Thanks TMellow, I'm getting conflicting info. Some say it's regulated, some say it follows battery voltage (tested under load with a meter). That's why I was wondering if anyone looked at the internals......

Maybe there are two versions of the switch too, IDK.

Example:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ssion/211868-e-power-voltage.html#post3814455

 

[harmonic]

i did not take mine apart but based on my tests it does not boost or anything. here is some testing i did and i mean to do more but havent had the time... i also have not been able to find any concrete info as to the actual workings inside the switch.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/gotvapes/211178-epower-voltage.html

 

[unloaded]

I've got a bad switch module from one of the 14650 units. There's a seam in the middle, thought maybe I could unscrew it but it seems to be pressed together. If you'd like to properly disect it I'll send it to ya, just shoot me your info in a PM.

Mine fires DC cartos and LR 306's and 510's. With the 306's I had to raise the center pin a hair to make connection.

 

[WillyB]

Thanks so far for the info guys. FYI - the unit doesn't know single vs dual coil... it only know ohms. The DC's are rated at 1.6 (two 3.2 ohm coils) as I understand it, which is why it works.

Sometimes the cut out is due to a mosfet, sometimes battery protection. IMRs may help. IDK for sure.

Thanks TMellow, I'm getting conflicting info. Some say it's regulated, some say it follows battery voltage (tested under load with a meter). That's why I was wondering if anyone looked at the internals......

Maybe there are two versions of the switch too, IDK.

You've been around long enough to know a single Li-Ion cannot be regulated to 3.7V (as GotVapes claims these are). The only way that can happen is with a rather expensive boost circuit like the ProVari's. If anything I would assume it's 'capped' at 3.7V due to the chintzy Chinese circuitry (and the additional resistance it adds). And keep in mind most eGo batteries that fail, still have working batteries, it's the electronics that fry.

You'll never see these kinds of loaded volts from it.

That's a AW2600 Li-ion with a Joye 2.1Ω 510.

Here's the latest deceptive bullcrap floating around.

This unit has 3 user selectable voltages and a battery strength indicator on it. It starts at 3.2 Volts with a red light around the button. 5 clicks and it go's to 3.7 Volts with a pink light. 5 more click and blue at 4.2 volts.

This thing will never vape at 4.2V or even 3.7V I'd venture to guess.

 

[birdbrains]

I guess I'm not following--I had always assumed that something claiming to be 3.7 volts was claiming to give that output *not* under load. Yet the comparison in voltages is certainly still useful from a consumer standpoint. A 3.7v E-Power does absolutely feel like it is outputting more power than a 3.2v ego. I would think it would be hard for a company to tell you how its batts and internals would perform under load as it differs depending on the resistance of the atomizer, right?

That variable voltage ego you pasted a picture of does actually give you a choice of selected output--whether the numbers are exact while under load isn't as important as the fact that the choice is there to crank it up or dial it down.


I guess I'm asking--what PVs maintain the absolute specific voltage outputs under load? And do you want some type of more truthful reporting from PV manufacturers?

 

[CraigHB]

Any regulated mod using boost or two batts and a regulator will closely maintain voltage independent of load up to it's maximum output. In other words, these devices don't sag much, but they still sag a small amount.

Otherwise, any unregulated mod is going to fall victim to some amount of voltage sag due to the impedance of the circuitry (including the cell) and the state of the cell's charge. A unique consideration is the eGo since it uses a single cell with PWM. It will maintain a constant "lower than cell" voltage until overload where the regulator taps out and output starts sagging. That can happen with low resistance atomizers.

I also agree about the wear on eGo devices. The electronics seem to go before the cell wears out. I don't use the eGos myself, but my wife still does. She's worn out a few cells, but mostly it's been the electronics that go first.

Boost converters small enough for mods are getting cheaper now that high capacitance MLCCs have come down in price quite a bit. We may start seeing eGo size devices with them. The big problem with boosters is the high drain batteries they require and the issues high input currents give rise in providing high power outputs. That's why devices that use them usually have limited output power capacity. For example, the Pro-Vari at 12W and the Darwin at 12.7W.

I've built a 30W booster mod myself, but it uses large, expensive tantalum polymer capacitors and the mod itself is relatively big. I've just got my hands on some high capacitance MLCCs for the first time and I'm going to attempt a 30W booster with those. The MLCCs are a tenth the size and somewhat cheaper. If I can dial it in (not sure if I can tune the circuit with them), I'll be able to make a high output booster mod with a small form. It won't be terribly expensive either.

 

[AttyPops]

I agree that it's not regulated to > 3.7 (e.g. boosted)... but it could be regulated to 3.5 or something (capped in other words) but still allowed to drop below that before cut-off. Like the eGo's 3.2v or Riva (prolly 3.4 ish). I know there's a voltage drop of some bit in their circuitry.

This isn't intended to be a boost discussion, but rather... is it even regulated/capped to anything at all, or is it a simple power-fet following battery voltage? Another way to think of it.... it it using eGo style PWM regulation?

And WillyB, I liked your post and agree with your points, but I'm just noting here that the 2nd part of your post is a different unit than the e-power so we don't get the discussion going on the other device that you were making a good point about.

This is the unit I'm discussing:
Titanium E-Power Replacable Battery kit!

 

[AttyPops]

birdbrains.... I'll bet it is either following battery voltage (maybe with a power-fet drop-off) or is "regulated" to a higher average than an eGo (like the Riva is).

However, either way it would outperform the eGo in that regard. So the question remains.

Like harmonic more or less said.... there's a lot of discussion, but little correct information. I figured one of us may have torn one apart, or tested voltage performance.

Oh, and I just read the thread harmonic posted. They aren't accounting for voltage drop due to amp starvation. Harmonic... if you tested the voltage using good (maybe IMR?) batteries on say a standard ohm atty (or the highest ohm you could get) and tested it starting with fresh charge, and testing periodically over use till cut off.... that would tell us.

I can't tell from the test if it's regulated (capped) to 3.6 or it was resistance/amp-starvation.

The DC's are real close to using an LR atty (1.6 DC, 1.5 LR) ... so they can be amp starved with standard batteries and then you get a voltage drop (voltage suffers with insufficient amps, in other words).

The other thing that is hard with this is that some meters are different than others when it comes to the PWM readings.

But, in any event, THANK YOU harmonic for doing the tests thus far.

 

[AttyPops]

...<snip>...I've built a 30W booster mod myself, but it uses large, expensive tantalum polymer capacitors and the mod itself is relatively big. I've just got my hands on some high capacitance MLCCs for the first time and I'm going to attempt a 30W booster with those. The MLCCs are a tenth the size and somewhat cheaper. If I can dial it in (not sure if I can tune the circuit with them), I'll be able to make a high output booster mod with a small form. It won't be terribly expensive either.

On a totally separate note, you rock CraigHB. Let us know how it works out. There may be TCs in your future if you wanted them...(too much for me...lol). That'll be as future proof as you can get.

 

[MasterofChaos]

Post Removed by poster.

 

[ericdjobs]

I can tell you what I've experienced with the switch units I have...

I have three e-power switch unit and each of them follows battery voltage without a load attached. I'll have a custom made adapter for testing loaded volts with my multimeter very soon, and I can let you know what the results are... I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that the three switches that I have are not regulated, this is because I am able to notice the difference between batteries of different levels of charge (4.2, 3.7) quite readily, even without meaning to test... ie: I can pick up my e-power and take a hit and almost immediately know a rough estimate of the state of charge

WillyB: that variable voltage ego irks me as well. I've actually made a couple posts in the gotvapes thread about it... I have no idea how the vendor is claiming, in good faith, that a 650mAh 3.7v device is outputting 4.2v with enough current to power a dual coil carto even if battery charge was at 3.8v... and they straight up seem to ignore anything someone with an ounce of logic seems to ask.


Oh, I wanted to add... I have a custom made spacer so I'm able to use AW IMR 14500's in my 14650 e-power.. there is definitely voltage sag due to amp starvation, as you put it... the difference between the standard 14650 and an IMR 14500 is astounding, which is something I expected. 3.6 seems about right for a 14650 under the load of a dual coil, freshly charged or a bit lower. I will test with IMR and without IMR.. on a side note, they do make a 14650 IMR battery, electronicstix sells them.. they aren't AW brand but they might give better performance for high-load applications

 

[CraigHB]

On a totally separate note, you rock CraigHB. Let us know how it works out. There may be TCs in your future if you wanted them...(too much for me...lol). That'll be as future proof as you can get.

Thanks man, I'll try to post something on that booster if and when I get it working. It would be like the 426 Hemi of mod-size boosters.

the difference between the standard 14650 and an IMR 14500 is astounding, which is something I expected.

Yea the IMR batts really shine when you load them hard. The bigger ICO batts (regular Li-Ions) still have pretty low internal DC resistance so they dont' sag appreciably, but the IMRs are even lower. The IMR 14500 batts I have only sag about 50mV with a 3Ω load.

The LiPos are lower still. The ones I have with a 10A drain limit have ~20mΩ DC resistance. The ones I have with a 44A drain limit only have ~10mΩ. That's only a hundredth of a volt per amp! Those are some .....en cells. The charge density (by volume) is pretty much the same as a round IMR cell with the internal DC resistance incredibly low and the drain limit incredibly high. Perfect for a high output booster.

 

[AttyPops]

Cool gang. Keep the comments comming (You too MasterofChaos...lol).

See? Some say it follows battery voltage, others say it is at least capped, prolly processor controlled PWM.

So I still don't know.

So if you consider the eGo/Riva to be regulated (via PWM).. this could be too. It's not that they got the regulated part wrong, it's the voltage. Must be regulated to 3.5/3.6 would be my guess. Either that, or it's just a power mosfet with some low dropout.

 

[hairball]

Here's another question...why are the vendors selling extra switches for these? If it's going to work, you would think it would work for a long time before you would encounter problems IMO. So what gives?

Also, I have a VV eGo PT from gotvapes. When plugged into a 2amp wall wart, it hits pretty good and I can tell a difference between all 3 voltages. However, put it up against a Buzz set at 4.2V, the Buzz hits harder and wins hands down.

 

[AttyPops]

Good points hairball. However the replaceable switch is one reason I'm looking at buying it. Like mentioned by others above... electronics fail as often or more often than the actual battery in many devices.

IDK about the vv PT. I was dubious about that whole concept as compared to just using my 5v PT and varying the atty ohms to preference. Since they can't regulate it to 5v anyway, and I vape at 5v, meh. For those that want to give their 3.7 ish PT a boost... OK, sure, try it.

 

[MasterofChaos]

I removed my post because I didn't want to get in trouble (posting about specific products I mean).

However I will say that there is a definite difference between the "higher quality" devices that use a swtiching regulator (such as the Darwin, the Provari and the eGo Booster) and other "lower quality" devices that claim to be VV but just use PWM to lower the battery voltage.

I'm with WillyB in that it infuriates me when suppliers refuse to post accurate information about how their product operates, or flat out make false claims.

 

[Java_Az]

The Epower is the same thing as the NoeGo i believe. Made by the same Chinese company. I got the 14500 /14650 model sitting here i just don't have any 14500 batteries. They also make a 18650 model that one i have tested out seems to hit the same as my eGo. Which for me is lacking i don't really enjoy vaping without at least 4.4 volts these days. Just thought i would throw that info out there.