Alright.... the e-power mod

[unloaded]

I'll take my damaged switch to work tonight and cut it open with a cutoff wheel. I'll post some pics of whats inside.

For ....s&giggles I'll put a meter on my 14650 Epower and see what it says compared to battery readings. I don't expect any meaniful results though.

 

[MasterofChaos]

LOL. One thought I had is that different people's meters may tell us different things due to the PWM.

If it's reading the battery voltage during the "on" part of the cycle, then it would seem to follow battery voltage. If it's averaging out the PWM cycle to a net voltage, then it would read as regulated. No? So you'd have to know how your meter handles PWM at whatever frequency they are using.


It's not a vv device.

Atty, you're right, the reading you get on your meter if the voltage is pulsing is pretty random, it will depend on a lot of things, not the least of which is whether your meter is a true RMS meter or not, i.e. how it measures pulsed signals.

Since different meters will read different voltages on a pulsed signal depending on how they operate, saying the unit produces "3.7V" out of a pulsed signal is a pretty much bogus claim, yes. I think what is happening in the industry is there is the perception of "3.2 V devices" like the eGo that produce around 3.2-3.4V, and "3.7 V devices" that produce around 3.7v, and the "4.2 V devices" that basically let the full battery voltage go through untouched.

I have no problem with suppliers/manufacturers classifying their devices this way, but when they sell a VV device that really just switches between a "3.2V device" and a "3.7V device" and a "4.2V device" then I have a problem. They are mixing their industry terms, to deceive the end user in my opinion.

Real VV devices don't operate in a "class". When they are set to 3.7V, they OUTPUT 3.7V. They are not operating as a "3.7 V device", if you get my meaning.

 

[AttyPops]

I wouldn't want you to kill it if it's fixable/exchangeable unloaded.........

 

[AttyPops]

The other device discussion, and vendor opinions, are valid, but really not for this thread. Besides, the only switchable one like that I've heard of is a PT using 5v USB input (I think, but haven't checked, cuz I don't care).

You're correct about the RMS meter thing tho MOC

 

[MasterofChaos]

Atty,

Fair enough, although I have read posts from people on the ECF building a "VV" unit for the NoEgo (which is basically the same thing as the E-power), however again all they have shown so far is a very rudimentary PWM circuit, with a 555 timer that uses a pot to vary the duty cycle.

Not what I would call VV.

Variable power, maybe, but not VV.

 

[Java_Az]

Atty,

Fair enough, although I have read posts from people on the ECF building a "VV" unit for the NoEgo (which is basically the same thing as the E-power), however again all they have shown so far is a very rudimentary PWM circuit, with a 555 timer that uses a pot to vary the duty cycle.

Not what I would call VV.

Variable power, maybe, but not VV.

Nothing wrong with PWM's they are a lot more efficient then a VV linear regulator that are used in a bunch of commercial mods. Really doesnt matter what you call it VV VP VW in the end the only thing that matters does it vape good and how long will my batteries last. At least thats my opinion.

 

[ericdjobs]

Changed this part because I added a lot more test results... doesn't look like it does any PWM/regulation so far, I'm getting pretty much the same voltage from an e-power that I do wiring up the carto directly to the same battery.

STOCK 14650 battery, open circuit voltage: 4.02
STOCK 14650 battery, wired directly to 2.0ohm carto: 3.35
STOCK 14650 battery, wired directly to 3.0ohm carto: 3.52
E-power voltage, no load: 4.01
E-power voltage, 2.0 ohm load: 3.33
E-power voltage, 3.0 ohm load: 3.48

***AW 14500 IMR Test results
open circuit battery: 4.22v
e-power(with 14500 IMR), no load: 4.21v
e-power(with 14500 IMR), 3.0 ohm load: 3.97v
e-power(with 14500IMR), 2.0 ohm load: 3.88v

 

[mj64]

Eric, so I get it straight this time, the claim of this device is regulated 3.7 voltage?

 

[ericdjobs]

Sorry mjmetz.. disregard what I said earlier.. that was just speculation because of my first test results.. but it looks like it was just because the stock 14650 battery is junk, and sags over half a volt under load.

Refer to my edited post above, there's more test results now.. with AW 14500 IMR batteries @ 4.2v I got 3.9v under load so it's definitely not regulated or pulsed to anything below that... I can say that for certain. I also get the same voltage from the e-power under load with a 2.0 and 3.0ohm carto and the stock 14650 battery that I do wiring it directly to the carto.

 

[mj64]

I wouldn't say that it's regulated, but it might have some circuits in there like an ego/riva battery that pulse the output. I wasn't testing under load previously, and it was giving me battery voltage.. so somehow it's doing whatever it does only when a load is applied.. or my multimeter isn't able to get a solid reading otherwise, unsure.. I will test with an freshly charged 14500 IMR right now.

***Hahaha.. okay.. looks like the stock 14650 battery that comes with the e-power is just incredibly TERRIBLE.. Freshly charged 14500 AW IMR
open circuit battery: 4.22v
e-power(with 14500 IMR), no load: 4.21v
e-power(with 14500 IMR), 3.0 ohm load: 3.97v
e-power(with 14500IMR), 2.0 ohm load: 3.88v
So maybe (My switch) isn't regulated or PWM after all! Very interesting how much voltage sag the stock 14650 battery has...

Yeah, if they are just saying a real 3.7 device it probably means that it just isn't restricting to 3.2 like the eGo does. Which would mean, well, not much of anything. Kinda like hey, this thing doesn't suck!

 

[MasterofChaos]

Eric,

Those are some interesting tests! And I think it proves one fundimental point: that most of the time the vaping experience depends on the particular battery you are using. There is quite a variation in performance between different batteries of the same type, due to manufacturing inconsistencies. I think that's why Joye/Janty reduces their voltage down to 3.2 volts, that way you get consistent performance independent of the particular battery you are using.

 

[WillyB]

Eric,

Those are some interesting tests! And I think it proves one fundimental point: that most of the time the vaping experience depends on the particular battery you are using. There is quite a variation in performance between different batteries of the same type, due to manufacturing inconsistencies. I think that's why Joye/Janty reduces their voltage down to 3.2 volts, that way you get consistent performance independent of the particular battery you are using.

That's the whole point, to try to provide a consistent vape from first drag to last and squeeze maximum runtime out of the available mAh. And they succeeded. When it first hit folks noticed it hit better than the 510 kits (the cone also helps) and lasted some folks 'all day'. The original Joye batts (180mAh) functioned about the same way... for about an hour.

Bauway had a chance to make something decent with the 510N, but like SmokTech and the other 3rd tier manufacturers they stumble on some of the most basic points. Can't these folks at least make an atty connector that works right?

And FWIW my meters have never had any problems reading the volts of Joye batts.

The thing I find funny (and it tells you a lot about SmokTech) is that they make a PV that looks like an eGo, yet can't use any eGo specific atties/cartos.

 

[mj64]

That's the whole point, to try to provide a consistent vape from first drag to last and squeeze maximum runtime out of the available mAh. And they succeeded. When it first hit folks noticed it hit better than the 510 kits (the cone also helps) and lasted some folks 'all day'. The original Joye batts (180mAh) functioned about the same way... for about an hour.

Bauway had a chance to make something decent with the 510N, but like SmokTech and the other 3rd tier manufacturers they stumble on some of the most basic points. Can't these folks at least make an atty connector that works right?

And FWIW my meters have never had any problems reading the volts of Joye batts.

The thing I find funny (and it tells you a lot about SmokTech) is that they make a PV that looks like an eGo, yet can't use any eGo specific atties/cartos.

Y'know that's one way of looking at it. Lower the bar so you make it over most of the time. And maybe, just maybe for an ecigarette that was the right logic at the time. I don't think so, but I am not averse to maintenance as so many are. I see logic like that used to justify some really dumba$$ performance tuning decisions in the IT world, and it makes me want to lop off heads.

 

[unloaded]

Too busy at work last night to cut it open, hopefully tonight.

 

[WillyB]

Y'know that's one way of looking at it. Lower the bar so you make it over most of the time.

Don't know what you mean by lowering the bar. When the Joye510 first hit the market it became the e-cig of choice and the first with a LR atty. That's pretty much when the term 'throat hit' originated. It was constantly recommended over all the previous models available. The 510 knock-offs that followed looked like it but all used high ohm atties. But there were also the re-branded versions by TotallyWicked, Janty etc. that were the real deal.

What kind of loaded voltage were they working with?

From Scottbee's 1-2010 thread.

The 180mAh Joye batt.

And the later to come Mega batt.

 

[bstedh]

I have looked at the board for the noego 18650 and it has a controller, mosfet, and I believe a zener diode. As most controller chips ,from what I have read, have PWM built into them my assumption is that there is a certain level of PWM going on. Probably just at a higher voltage level than the ego. However, I have noticed that they do drop off in output as the battery goes down. They do cut off with the battery at about 3.5 unloaded which I believe is the the function of the zener. I do plan on making an adapter to get loaded voltage and to see if the voltage is PWM or straight.

 

[Rocketman]

you could attack a small speaker to the connector and listen for PWM.

 

[harmonic]

my meter on the epower is nice and steady where when i hook up an ego it fluctuates a bit ...

 

[MadmanMacguyver]

OK I did a brush over reading of this thread so I'f someone already said this let me know dont bite my head off...I will look for where i saw this but the Epower is supposed to be a regulated BUCK/BOOST combination regulator...its regulates down to 3.7 till the batt goes down some then it boosts up...

Now I don't have one yet although its on my list to try out just because of that claim so if someone has good AWs in one and it behaves differently than I read(cant remember where ATM but I will and then I will link it here)let me know...

I personally don't see putting a Buck boost in the tiny space of the switch body but It is possible...

 

[MasterofChaos]

MadMan,

There's no way they put a buck boost in there, not for the price their selling it.

But you can make a buck/boost tiny, the eGo booster does exactly that.