Am I expecting to much ?

[proimage1]

Hey Pro,

Keep it up.. It takes some time. I felt sleepy too with no energy for many months but it fades away. remember that you smoked for a long time and it takes ahile for the effects and damage to start repairing itself in your body..

All I can say to you is you are on the right path. it will get better each month.

I smoked as long as you and did a lot of damage that some may not be reversed but it isnt getting worse, thank God. So id encourage you to hang in there longer.

It will get better, I promise you.. there are stages that everyone goes through with ecgis and quitting analog use.

good luck! you can make it!

Thanks Doots - great words to think about, and yep, I know I've done a good bit of damage that can't be undone - I hope to stop any more thought. I'm gonna hang tough, as long as I can come here to whine and get support !

WHAT A GREAT PLACE TO HAVE !!! I'm not sure I could have even made it this far without ECF -- Thanks to all of you !!!!

 

[proimage1]

The thing is the tob companies have other additives in cigs and there are natural occuring chems in cigs that are not in our ejuice. For many on this site the ecig is enough to whip smoking, others are not so lucky. You are not alone, before I started using snus I would be constantley vaping and never felt satisfied I also had bouts with depression and anxiety, for me snus is the silver bullet that took care of these problems.

You really think so - maybe I'll give the snus another try. I have 3/4 of a can still here - I really gave up on it to quick. I totally believe you about the other crap in cigarettes - there's really no telling what it had - there's a lot of BIG, BIG money in tobacco -- I'm only wondering how all of this will play out in the end - I do really think that at some point IF e-cigs get to even 1/10th as common as analogs - we're all gonna be fighting a loosing battle to have it as good as we do now. I just don't think all the lobbying and big money with RJR and PM, etc... and Washington are going to let this continue without getting their cut - and to me - that's what it's always been about.

The love of money truly is " THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL "

 

[martha1014]

I smoked for 40 years, 3 packs a day and had early stages of COPD. I went through some of the same changes you are having. But once my health started to improve there was no looking back. I could breathe again and completely stopped coughing. It just takes time for your body to bounce back. After a couple of months it got much better. It has been almost 10 months now and I feel fine and most of the time I don't even think about smoking. You will get where cigarettes actualy make you sick if you smoke one. If you already have some COPD then you certainly don't want it to get worse. I have seen people dying of COPD and they would gasp for breath. They actually smother to death. Think about these things where you are having these symptoms and just stick it out. Good luck.

 

[proimage1]

I smoked for 40 years, 3 packs a day and had early stages of COPD. I went through some of the same changes you are having. But once my health started to improve there was no looking back. I could breathe again and completely stopped coughing. It just takes time for your body to bounce back. After a couple of months it got much better. It has been almost 10 months now and I feel fine and most of the time I don't even think about smoking. You will get where cigarettes actualy make you sick if you smoke one. If you already have some COPD then you certainly don't want it to get worse. I have seen people dying of COPD and they would gasp for breath. They actually smother to death. Think about these things where you are having these symptoms and just stick it out. Good luck.

Thanks so much Martha - and yes, a year or so ago, the doctor at the VA hospital I go to said I had the beginning stages of COPD - that worried the you know what out of me - I've never coughed, but the shortness of breath was embarrassing as all get out. I'm gonna hang in there - I would have a really hard time if I caved now and had to start over and go through this all over again - I'm gonna keep hanging out here and I truly hope at some point I can offer encouragement to someone like you're doing for me here right now - instead of acting like a whining little baby !!!

Thanks so much !!

 

[Mister]

36mg and higher - at least 3 ml per day and sometimes a little more - vaping through a few 3.7 volts and a couple of HVs - a 5 and 6 volt.

Ok, in that case I suspect that you are OD'ing on nicotine at the moment.

I asked about this because it can be difficult to distinguish between symptoms of too much nicotine vs. too little nicotine. I intend to post an article about this soon because it can cause such difficulties. Many symptoms are similar. I'd already guessed that you might be getting too much based on your report of no increased appetite but wanted to make sure.

There isn't a very good way to predict but there are some ways to roughly guess how much nicotine a given smoker will want. My guess (a rough but slightly informed one) is that as a smoker of 30 Marlborough Reds per day (rated at 1.2mg of delivered nicotine) you would probably need, if using 3.0 ml per day, 26mg strength liquid.

Since you are still strongly craving "something" (fighting the urge not to smoke) I think you may be "chasing the X-Factor." I.e. you may be vaping more nicotine than your body wants in an effort to get something which vapor doesn't have.

Some of us have found that there's something other than nicotine in cigarettes which our bodies need. The current thinking is that it is some combination of the other alkaloids in tobacco. (Note: there are some other things such as carbon monixide, tar, and the fast delivery of nicotine after a puff which we won't get from anything other than a cigarette. Carbon monoxide may be responsible for a bit of "rush" from fast smoking. We just have to leave these things behind of course.)

You might try to outlast that craving, i.e. to break the addiction to the X-factor stuff, by just sticking it out. I don't think there's any way to predict how hard that will be, how long it will take, or whether it may be impossible for some individuals.

Many of us have found that supplementing vaping with some "Swedish Snus" addresses this need. In my case I found that 2 or 3 snus per day quelled those cravings.

In any case, I suggest reducing your liquid strength a bit. I don't think nicotine alone is going to do it for you at this time. And reducing it a bit will hopefully improve your energy level. Your low energy level is most likely a result of absorbing more nicotine than you are used to.

If you can find a juice which gives the right throat hit and flavor for you that may help reduce the cravings a bit; things associated with smoking can be as real a need as the chemicals.

 

[canadianbandit]

i just got my 510 and was useing liquid with no nic now i got my nic today!
and omg the coughing i doing... we so pose to cough like that i think i getting hign off of this stuff lol... or am i doing soming wrong i try the fiter that come with it the tea bag and the drip still cough maybe lungs r saying omg lady... lol or dose every one cough like that... if so it going to take me a bit to get you to this i tell yeah...and i will do the same drink drink and every 20 min or so for the nic .... day 1 with the ejucies with nic in them..

 

[Lab]

I saw you put that you are burning out attys trying to get that throat hit.. add some grain alcohol for the throat hit.. and some vg to get a vaper cloud..

 

[proimage1]

Ok, in that case I suspect that you are OD'ing on nicotine at the moment.

I asked about this because it can be difficult to distinguish between symptoms of too much nicotine vs. too little nicotine. I intend to post an article about this soon because it can cause such difficulties. Many symptoms are similar. I'd already guessed that you might be getting too much based on your report of no increased appetite but wanted to make sure.

There isn't a very good way to predict but there are some ways to roughly guess how much nicotine a given smoker will want. My guess (a rough but slightly informed one) is that as a smoker of 30 Marlborough Reds per day (rated at 1.2mg of delivered nicotine) you would probably need, if using 3.0 ml per day, 26mg strength liquid.

Since you are still strongly craving "something" (fighting the urge not to smoke) I think you may be "chasing the X-Factor." I.e. you may be vaping more nicotine than your body wants in an effort to get something which vapor doesn't have.

Some of us have found that there's something other than nicotine in cigarettes which our bodies need. The current thinking is that it is some combination of the other alkaloids in tobacco. (Note: there are some other things such as carbon monixide, tar, and the fast delivery of nicotine after a puff which we won't get from anything other than a cigarette. Carbon monoxide may be responsible for a bit of "rush" from fast smoking. We just have to leave these things behind of course.)

You might try to outlast that craving, i.e. to break the addiction to the X-factor stuff, by just sticking it out. I don't think there's any way to predict how hard that will be, how long it will take, or whether it may be impossible for some individuals.

Many of us have found that supplementing vaping with some "Swedish Snus" addresses this need. In my case I found that 2 or 3 snus per day quelled those cravings.

In any case, I suggest reducing your liquid strength a bit. I don't think nicotine alone is going to do it for you at this time. And reducing it a bit will hopefully improve your energy level. Your low energy level is most likely a result of absorbing more nicotine than you are used to.

If you can find a juice which gives the right throat hit and flavor for you that may help reduce the cravings a bit; things associated with smoking can be as real a need as the chemicals.

You know, I really appreciate you taking the time and thought to help me with this. I to have thought at times, that I might be OD'ing on the Nic in an attempt to satisfy my appetite for cigarettes. I keep thinking if I bump up the nic level or bump up the voltage on the delivery - it'll take care of everything - so far it has eluded me. Every time I read about someone mentioning " What an awesome throat hit " for whatever reason - sometimes it's a great new juice they just tried, usually it's a new HV they just got, so I've jumped on several new HV's and tried all the popular juices including making my own ( more than high voltage stuff ), and to be perfectly honest - each time I've been more than disappointed. I'm so envious of all the great success stories and how great this flavor is and that e-cig is. I've also tried adding some grain alcohol trying to get a little better throat hit with little success.

Someone mentioned earlier suggesting to try the Snuff - I did try a couple of pouches - more or less bailed on that pretty quick - BUT I'm thinking I might as well give that another try.

Everything you're saying here makes a lot of sense to - in fact I'm betting your nailing the problem. I'm going to try my very best to follow your suggestions over the next couple of days - at least through the weekend and see how it goes. I've got the Snuff already, so I'm good to go on that.

I sincerely appreciate you and everyone else for all the help and support. I'll post back soon on my results - good or not !

Thanks people !!!!

 

[proimage1]

I saw you put that you are burning out attys trying to get that throat hit.. add some grain alcohol for the throat hit.. and some vg to get a vaper cloud..

I'll get some VG and try that - I've tried the grain alcohol and haven't had much luck with that - the 190 ever clear can't be sold where I live, but I have the one just under that - popping those attys can be a huge expense and disappointment in itself - I had one pop a couple of hours ago just out of the blue - one that had been doing great for several days now. Dang it - I hate it when that happens !!! I've already mentioned on here before - if someone could invent an atomizer that was good for 6 months or longer - they could become very, very wealthy - I'm betting somebody's working on doing that very thing !!! If I had that kind of know how - I'd be all over that one - everyone keeps coming up with this ultra cool HV Mods - and they are GREAT - but let's be honest - aren't they really all basically the same other than cosmetic appearance when it comes right down to it. Now if someone could come up with something like a TRUE long lasting atomizer - now that would be a real breakthrough and in my opinion worth a lot more than all the cool looking Mods combined - Just my .02 worth !

 

[CaptJay]

The tired draggy feeling - idk what causes that but Ithink its something common - I just try and push thru it if you can - and use your previous ingrained habits to help you here.
use your PV where you used to use your ciggies. If that means going out on the porch to 'smoke' then do that. If it means taking hte dogs out while vaping then do that.
Convince your subconcious that what you are doing is 'smoking'.
Your subconcious doesn't care a whit for logic btw - but it likes reinforcement behaviours a whole lot. While you KNOW what you're doing isn't 'really smoking' by apeing your old habits as much as possible you can 'fool' your brain into adapting to the change more easily.
The snus idea is a good one for die-hard smokers also - its helped a lot of people and won;t mess up your lungs at all. Get the SWEDISH kind (actually made in sweden) - its been around longer, is cured differently, and is 'better' than any other kind. it is NOT snuff - it comes in a tiny pouch that you hold between lip and gum - you do NOT spit with snus - its self-contained. It is NOt the same as 'dipping'. No raw tobacco touches your mouth.
Nic levels: Too much nic is going to mess you up biochemically. You don't want this. If you use the snus you SHOULD be able to reduce your PV nic a lot and some of those weird feeling will vanish very quickly indeed.
Lots of luck to you!

 

[Slither]

It does take time, and as we get older our bodies bounce back a little less quickly. A lot of the suggestions are good here as far as hydration, activity and some supplements.
You might also try taking a vit. B supplement, look for one that has as many of the forms of B as you can. B12 is good for energy. When you body is putting out energy to heal itself, it can kind of drag you down. I am currently taking 5 grams (yes, grams) of Vitamin C chewables. It is theorized that Vitamin C helps support the adrenal glands. Adrenals help the body cope with stress, which is what your body is going through when you are detoxing from analogs! My mom's doctor was the one who recommended it..here's the funny thing. You start by taking 1 gram per day (1000 mg) and increase it until your urine turnes that lovely shade of dark yellow/ orange. (Vitamin B will cause this also) Once you get that, maintain your dose at that level. Sorry to be a bit personal talking about body fluids but hey..I have been feeling peachy since I started this protocol. I walk a mile a day with my dogs and we actually went on a 2 mile mush this week! It was nice to be winded from exertion rather than my lungs being full of smoke.

 

[Brewster 59]

You really think so - maybe I'll give the snus another try. I have 3/4 of a can still here - I really gave up on it to quick. I totally believe you about the other crap in cigarettes - there's really no telling what it had - there's a lot of BIG, BIG money in tobacco -- I'm only wondering how all of this will play out in the end - I do really think that at some point IF e-cigs get to even 1/10th as common as analogs - we're all gonna be fighting a loosing battle to have it as good as we do now. I just don't think all the lobbying and big money with RJR and PM, etc... and Washington are going to let this continue without getting their cut - and to me - that's what it's always been about.

The love of money truly is " THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL "

I thought you said you tryed snuff, snus is a whole different animal it comes in pouches you put between between your cheek and gums. Snus comes in many different flavors and Americian Snus really isnt very good anyways if your intrested in trying sweedish Snus www.getsnus.com has many different flavors and I think they will give a first time customer a free sample.

You may want to try discrete which comes in flavors like peach, grape, and a whole bunch of others. I like my tob flavors so I dont do discrete. I have heard that lab 02 is a mellow light tob flavor.

Anyways Snus is my silver bullet and if its not for you there other suppliments that might work.

 

[Mister]

You're welcome proimage1!

I'm so envious of all the great success stories and how great this flavor is and that e-cig is.

There are also lots of us who didn't find it easy but ended up being ok success stories. I took an easier route than you are on: I started vaping a lot when I got my first units but continued to smoke when I felt the need. I spent a month or so working out my nic level, often wondering whether I was getting too much or not enough, and then starting to wonder if I just plain needed something else, i.e. a cigarette. Then I spent a few monts trying to gradually eliminate my cigarette supplement. Getting from 7 or 8 per day to five was easy. But I ended up not fully happy at about 3 per day and totally unhappy if I didn't have those. Then I came across the snus supplement and now I'm almost completely happy without cigarettes. A few times a day I have a twinge of wanting something but these are not all that hard to ignore, they're in a different universe than what happened in my various quit smoking attempts.

Someone mentioned earlier suggesting to try the Snuff - I did try a couple of pouches - more or less bailed on that pretty quick - BUT I'm thinking I might as well give that another try.

I'm not sure what you have which is called Snuff. There seem to be a few kinds. I haven't tried them but reports from others on the forum suggest that Snuff and the few American brands of snus don't work as well as Swedish snus, which are processed differently. From what I've read some kinds of snuff have nicotine added to make them stronger but that would be the opposite of what you want - you probably need some of the non-nicotine tobacco content.

I have found some of the flavors of Swedish snus to be quite harsh, distasteful, or both. I haven't yet found one I really like. Just some which I've grown used to and like a bit. Nonetheless all the ones I've tried do the job. From the first one I tried (a rather disgusting flavor to me) I knew I'd found a way to finally quit smoking completely. It felt good right away.

I'll post back soon on my results - good or not!

Please do! We're rooting for you. And we learn a bit more from each person's experience with all this.

 

[proimage1]

The tired draggy feeling - idk what causes that but Ithink its something common - I just try and push thru it if you can - and use your previous ingrained habits to help you here.
use your PV where you used to use your ciggies. If that means going out on the porch to 'smoke' then do that. If it means taking hte dogs out while vaping then do that.
Convince your subconcious that what you are doing is 'smoking'.
Your subconcious doesn't care a whit for logic btw - but it likes reinforcement behaviours a whole lot. While you KNOW what you're doing isn't 'really smoking' by apeing your old habits as much as possible you can 'fool' your brain into adapting to the change more easily.
The snus idea is a good one for die-hard smokers also - its helped a lot of people and won;t mess up your lungs at all. Get the SWEDISH kind (actually made in sweden) - its been around longer, is cured differently, and is 'better' than any other kind. it is NOT snuff - it comes in a tiny pouch that you hold between lip and gum - you do NOT spit with snus - its self-contained. It is NOt the same as 'dipping'. No raw tobacco touches your mouth.
Nic levels: Too much nic is going to mess you up biochemically. You don't want this. If you use the snus you SHOULD be able to reduce your PV nic a lot and some of those weird feeling will vanish very quickly indeed.
Lots of luck to you!

Just double checked the can - it is called SNUS -- it's Camel brand mfr'd by RJR -- not sure if that's bad or good - the flavor is called Frost - from what I read, it is a pouch and you don't spit it out. So, is this what I should try ? I'll also take your advice on the times and places to use the PV.

Thanks again for all the encouragement ! REALLY !

 

[proimage1]

It does take time, and as we get older our bodies bounce back a little less quickly. A lot of the suggestions are good here as far as hydration, activity and some supplements.
You might also try taking a vit. B supplement, look for one that has as many of the forms of B as you can. B12 is good for energy. When you body is putting out energy to heal itself, it can kind of drag you down. I am currently taking 5 grams (yes, grams) of Vitamin C chewables. It is theorized that Vitamin C helps support the adrenal glands. Adrenals help the body cope with stress, which is what your body is going through when you are detoxing from analogs! My mom's doctor was the one who recommended it..here's the funny thing. You start by taking 1 gram per day (1000 mg) and increase it until your urine turnes that lovely shade of dark yellow/ orange. (Vitamin B will cause this also) Once you get that, maintain your dose at that level. Sorry to be a bit personal talking about body fluids but hey..I have been feeling peachy since I started this protocol. I walk a mile a day with my dogs and we actually went on a 2 mile mush this week! It was nice to be winded from exertion rather than my lungs being full of smoke.

Hey - I don't mind one bit to suggest something that gets personal -whatever can help - I'm willing to try and I have always heard that mega doses of Vit C is good - I'll give that a try to. I'll pick up a Vit B at the same time. Thanks buddy - Tom

 

[proimage1]

I thought you said you tryed snuff, snus is a whole different animal it comes in pouches you put between between your cheek and gums. Snus comes in many different flavors and Americian Snus really isnt very good anyways if your intrested in trying sweedish Snus www.getsnus.com has many different flavors and I think they will give a first time customer a free sample.

You may want to try discrete which comes in flavors like peach, grape, and a whole bunch of others. I like my tob flavors so I dont do discrete. I have heard that lab 02 is a mellow light tob flavor.

Anyways Snus is my silver bullet and if its not for you there other suppliments that might work.

I just wrote in the above post - it is called Snus - mfr'd by RJR - the flavor is Frost ( more or less a mint flavored - it's actually not bad - but is the Swedish version or mfr the one to use and not this one ?

 

[proimage1]

You're welcome proimage1!



There are also lots of us who didn't find it easy but ended up being ok success stories. I took an easier route than you are on: I started vaping a lot when I got my first units but continued to smoke when I felt the need. I spent a month or so working out my nic level, often wondering whether I was getting too much or not enough, and then starting to wonder if I just plain needed something else, i.e. a cigarette. Then I spent a few monts trying to gradually eliminate my cigarette supplement. Getting from 7 or 8 per day to five was easy. But I ended up not fully happy at about 3 per day and totally unhappy if I didn't have those. Then I came across the snus supplement and now I'm almost completely happy without cigarettes. A few times a day I have a twinge of wanting something but these are not all that hard to ignore, they're in a different universe than what happened in my various quit smoking attempts.



I'm not sure what you have which is called Snuff. There seem to be a few kinds. I haven't tried them but reports from others on the forum suggest that Snuff and the few American brands of snus don't work as well as Swedish snus, which are processed differently. From what I've read some kinds of snuff have nicotine added to make them stronger but that would be the opposite of what you want - you probably need some of the non-nicotine tobacco content.

I have found some of the flavors of Swedish snus to be quite harsh, distasteful, or both. I haven't yet found one I really like. Just some which I've grown used to and like a bit. Nonetheless all the ones I've tried do the job. From the first one I tried (a rather disgusting flavor to me) I knew I'd found a way to finally quit smoking completely. It felt good right away.



Please do! We're rooting for you. And we learn a bit more from each person's experience with all this.

I probably should have tried gradually reducing the cigarettes instead of going straight to the PV, but here I am, and since I've gotten this far - I'll either make it or cave in - right now - I'm gonna hang tough as long as I can. The Snus I got is made by RJR - the flavor is Frost - sort of a mint taste to it. Would the Swedish made one be better and I assume they don't sell that here in the states - do you have to order it. It seems a bit pricey - unless I'm reading it wrong, but maybe I'm thinking the can won't last that long. If I have got the right Snus - then I'll give that another try - or if it's not - I'll go ahead and try and buy some of the Swedish Mfr type ! Thanks again for all of the help!

 

[proimage1]

It seems a bit pricey - unless I'm reading it wrong, but maybe I'm thinking the can won't last that long.

I was wrong on the price of Snus - it's price is pretty darn cheap compared to everything else I've seen for what you get. I'm gonna order some this weekend and give it a try - thanks for the link by the way !

 

[quasimod]

...
I smoked for the past 43 years...

So I'm guessing you're in your late 50's?

...
I quit ONE time 25 yrs ago [...] During that 30 days, I gained weight, had a ton of energy, and even my skin felt different - you know, just more color and felt more alive...[...]

Way back when you were 20-something?

...
This time, EVERYTHING is different. [...]

SO - am I expecting to much ?
...

You might be.

VG metabolizes into lactic acid, which is the same thing your body produces in your muscles when you exercise. Some people get muscle soreness (as if they have been over-exerting themselves), and it might have something to do with your fatigue. You might try a lower VG or No-VG liquid. No-VG is all PG, which is also harsher-tasting and produces a bigger TH.

Also, you may be able to lower your nicotine intake and increase your satisfaction at the same time if you learn how to "direct inhale". At first, it's really awful, and you never want to do it again. If you persevere by practicing a few times per day, over the course of a week or so, you'll figure out how to do it. When you get it right, you will be exhaling huge plumes of vapor like the guys on the videos (yep, that's how they do it). It seems superficial, but the ability to semi-consistently produce big vapor is a dramatic help, psychologically. It also produces a much bigger throat hit. You will finally be able to put your PV down for a couple of minutes, and not be jones-ing for a cigarette all the time.

Here's how you can learn to do it:

Draw on your PV like you normally do, by filling your mouth with vapor. When you get to the point where you would normally stop vaping and inhale, instead do this: Continue pressing the button (if you have an auto ignore that part), continue sealing the cart with your lips, and slowly inhale directly into your lungs. It won't be long and you will feel a pinch, like you're about to cough. That's when you stop vaping and inhale.

Don't worry if it makes you cough, because it doesn't thrash your lungs like coughing smoke would.

With a little practice, you will be able to tell how much you can stand without coughing. You will also gradually be able to inhale more vapor, comfortably. You'll be fogging up the house in no time.

Careful with this at High Voltage, the vape is harsher and the atomizers can only take so much...

 

[blondeambition3]

I've already mentioned on here before - if someone could invent an atomizer that was good for 6 months or longer - they could become very, very wealthy - I'm betting somebody's working on doing that very thing !!! If I had that kind of know how - I'd be all over that one - everyone keeps coming up with this ultra cool HV Mods - and they are GREAT - but let's be honest - aren't they really all basically the same other than cosmetic appearance when it comes right down to it. Now if someone could come up with something like a TRUE long lasting atomizer - now that would be a real breakthrough and in my opinion worth a lot more than all the cool looking Mods combined - Just my .02 worth !

AMEN to this!!!!!