amps or watts

[Hipstertacos]

By my noob understanding of ohm's law, 8 watts with a 1.5 ohm atomizer will use 2.33 amps, and with a 3ohm atomizer will use 1.63 amps. (Right? I hope I got this right...) My question is, with those two setups (and the ability to power them), which is more desirable in terms of vapor production, flavor, etc? Or (if you're choosing an atomizer resistance) is somewhere in the middle considered most desirable?

All I know now is that battery life changes, but that's not really something I'm worried about.

 

[Doc Diego]

Watts are watts. Voltage times current (E×I, where E is voltage and I is current) equals power in watts. If we don't know voltage, we can found it with ohms law. Current divided by resistance equals voltage (E=I/R.), substitute that back into the first equation and power equals I×I/R. Multiply both dides by r then take the square root to get amperage from resistance and power. So √(P*R)=I.

Because power is held constant at 8 watts, battery life is theoretically the same. The only differences in battery life will be in the efficiency of the electronics controlling voltage.

At the same power outputs the attys will theoretically vape the same despite the different resistances as power, in watts, does the work of conversion to vapor. Since wattage is the same, the work would be the same. However, physically the windings of the coil have to be different (diameter/length/turns) so they will behave differently in the real world. The ideal power for one may not be the ideal setting for the other.

However I'm not into vv/vw yet so additional expertise is needed beyond what I know off the top of my head for best performance.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Doc Diego]

Helps if I answer the question. 3.46 amps for 1.5 ohms and 4.89 for 3 ohms at 8 watts using the above math.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[sailense]

Watts are watts. Voltage times current (E×I, where E is voltage and I is current) equals power in watts. If we don't know voltage, we can found it with ohms law. Current divided by resistance equals voltage (E=I/R.), substitute that back into the first equation and power equals I×I/R. Multiply both dides by r then take the square root to get amperage from resistance and power. So √(P*R)=I.

Because power is held constant at 8 watts, battery life is theoretically the same. The only differences in battery life will be in the efficiency of the electronics controlling voltage.

At the same power outputs the attys will theoretically vape the same despite the different resistances as power, in watts, does the work of conversion to vapor. Since wattage is the same, the work would be the same. However, physically the windings of the coil have to be different (diameter/length/turns) so they will behave differently in the real world. The ideal power for one may not be the ideal setting for the other.

However I'm not into vv/vw yet so additional expertise is needed beyond what I know off the top of my head for best performance.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

While the power is definitely the same in both instances, most vapers using VV/VW devices can tell the difference between different resistance coils at the same Wattage. This is mostly due to the variables of:

- type of device, pulse width modulation or constant current
- coil thermal gradient, how fast does a given coil reach nominal temperature
- current, which as you pointed is different

Personally, a 1.5ohm coil vapes "warmer" than a 3ohm coil at the same power setting. In fact, I prefer to vape 3ohm coils at around 7-8W and 1.5ohm coils at 6-7W. And, indeed, personal preference is widely variable.

So, the only way to find out is to try a VV/VW device. I can tell you what I like, but I have no idea what you like or even what you may like and no objective way to determine.

But then, you can have a lot of fun finding out.

 

[Steam Turbine]

By my noob understanding of ohm's law, 8 watts with a 1.5 ohm atomizer will use 2.33 amps, and with a 3ohm atomizer will use 1.63 amps. (Right? I hope I got this right...) My question is, with those two setups (and the ability to power them), which is more desirable in terms of vapor production, flavor, etc? Or (if you're choosing an atomizer resistance) is somewhere in the middle considered most desirable?

All I know now is that battery life changes, but that's not really something I'm worried about.

You should get roughly the same vape quality. 8 watts will heat up your coils pretty much the same way regardless of the resistance therefore giving you the same vape experience.

But this is a interesting scenario that shows something counterintuitive. In your setup #1 to get your 1.5 ohms firing at 8 watts the voltage is at 3.5v whereas in #2 your voltage is at 4.8v.

Yet setup #2 demands less of your battery (amps) than setup #1 which as a lower voltage. Therefore #2 will last you longer on 1 battery charge.

I know it's off topic but I think it's interesting to point out.

 

[lunchbox0]

Steam you also have to consider the extra current to boost the voltage up to the 4.8V from a battery resting at @4.2-3.6V.

Besides all that "how much power" was used from the battery perspective, the coil diameter/#wraps/gauge of kanthal/space between wraps/wick/airflow determine FAR more in terms of vapor production. Transfer of the heat to the juice is what matters, you should check out this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/416271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th-41.html

 

[Bob Chill]

Threads like this scare new people from investing in a simple to use and wonderful Vaping battery.

KISS- want more vapor...turn it up. And vice versa. No more complicated than a volume button on a mp3 player.

 

[InTheShade]

Threads like this scare new people from investing in a simple to use and wonderful Vaping battery.

KISS- want more vapor...turn it up. And vice versa. No more complicated than a volume button on a mp3 player.

I kind of agree, but I find it interesting anyways and I am sure some new vapers do too.

Saying that, add 2 to the resistance of the head and start your voltage there is a lot easier to explain and understand. I like your volume button analogy and I guarantee I will use it with no credit to you for the original idea

 

[The Ocelot]

 

[steved5600]

By my noob understanding of ohm's law, 8 watts with a 1.5 ohm atomizer will use 2.33 amps, and with a 3ohm atomizer will use 1.63 amps. (Right? I hope I got this right...) My question is, with those two setups (and the ability to power them), which is more desirable in terms of vapor production, flavor, etc? Or (if you're choosing an atomizer resistance) is somewhere in the middle considered most desirable?

All I know now is that battery life changes, but that's not really something I'm worried about.

Watts also called Power plus the delivery system determine vapor output. If we are talking single coil I rarely am able to go over 8 watts on most conventional attys. Bottom feeds are a little more forgiving IME. Top feeds you can overrun their ability to feed the liquid fast enough and start burning the liquid. Another factor in vapor output is the amount of turns of the coil and the area they cover. Also ribbon wire is a little different. I find that most of the time I can vape between 5-7 watts per coil (or 10-14 watts total) on a dual coil and 6-8 watts on a single coil without burning it. Because with a dual coil you rarely get them exactly the same one coil will be hotter than the other so I don't run as high on the per coil wattage plus with a dual coil your getting a lot more output. IME.
Wattage is limited by the Mod you use, the coil and feed system, battery life and the current limit of the battery. The higher the current the shorter the battery life. If you have a 1300mah battery it will run at 1.3 amps for one hour when it's new. That will change over time. Try not to get to hung up on the math. Keep in mind though the limits of your mod and battery (current limits). Try not to exceed 10 watts on a single coil no matter the system. This is info from my experience as a vaper and a former Electronics tech.

One last safety note if you use a Mechanical mod make sure to use protected batteries. Really they all should be but the ones with a chip on them rarely work in a NON Mech mod. Those need the ones that use another protection method. I have two that are chip protected and they only work in my Mech and my Provari. Also on a Mechanical mod the Button or positive should be on top of most Mech's. If you put in backward in a Mechanical it will work but if the plastic on the outside of the battery gets torn and shorts you can have a bad day. IMO.

 

[lunchbox0]

I need to stay out of the "new vaper" forum if people think advice on vapor production are considered negative. Getting people information seems more important to me than KISS.


Don't go over 10W on any device?

 

[Bob Chill]

I need to stay out of the "new vaper" forum if people think advice on vapor production are considered negative. Getting people information seems more important to me than KISS.


Don't go over 10W on any device?

Personally, I think the info is excellent. I also think everyone should own a vv battery (even brand new folks). But it's a big scary world to break into once you get past blu's and njoys. I thought vv/vw's were super complicated and high tech from just looking at vendor's ads. Then I bought one and was like "it can't be this simple".

My post was half serious and half tongue in cheek.

 

[WKS01]

... Current divided by resistance equals voltage (E=I/R.)...

Perhaps you mean Voltage=Current x Resistance? Power = V x I = I² x R.

 

[Steam Turbine]

Steam you also have to consider the extra current to boost the voltage up to the 4.8V from a battery resting at @4.2-3.6V.

Besides all that "how much power" was used from the battery perspective, the coil diameter/#wraps/gauge of kanthal/space between wraps/wick/airflow determine FAR more in terms of vapor production. Transfer of the heat to the juice is what matters, you should check out this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/416271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th-41.html

You are right about wicks and coil diameter etc, but overall 8 watts on a protank will look pretty much the same regardless of the resistance. Sure it will vary but not that much. It still the same airflow etc etc.

You are right about battery power to. But in this case the higher voltage will last you longer, as I had witness this first hand.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Hhhhhmmmmm, couple of problems on this thread. Power doesn't determine battery life, amps do, which is affected by the coil resistance. So, a higher resistance coil is going to give you longer battery life using the same power. Also, Current MULTIPLIED by resistance equals voltage. For the new vapers on here, I found this website extremely simple to use:

Watts - volts - amps - ohms conversion calculator

Check that out after you watch this video on Ohm's law and VAPING:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc90pdATEM0

The precise scientific understanding of these concepts is far less important than understanding their relationship, and how these variables affect your vaping experience. From a practical standpoint, if the juice tastes burnt, turn the voltage/power down. If you have variable wattage, start at 8 watts and adjust up or down to taste. If you have variable voltage only, add 2.0 to the Ohms on the coil, and adjust up or down to taste. If you don't have an Ohm meter, i.e., either a variable wattage mod or a multimeter, consider getting one. Many replaceable heads have the resistance (in Ohms) stamped on them, but even if they don't, start low and increase voltage until you find the vape you prefer. If you can't change voltage in you battery, then try and buy coils that have Ohm's approximately 2.0 less than your battery power voltage. For example, a fixed battery may have an output voltage of 3.7 volts, try to use a coil with about 1.5 - 1.8 Ohms.

If none of this makes sense, keep vaping until you find a setup that works for you. That's what most of us did in the beginning, and for the most part, what I do now. The important thing is that you're not smoking now, or in the process of quitting, and you're just trying to figure this stuff out and have the best experience possible. With you on that, and good luck! Power up and Vape On!

 

[AttyPops]

The usual answer is that you can use anything, that's what VV is about HOWEVER selecting the "middle of the road ohms" like 2.3 ish is suggested as it gives you the most adjustment range. Using 1.5 ohms is possible, but there's a point where you can't turn it down low enough. Same with 3.0 ohm stuff...particularly if your device is limited to 4.8 volts and you'd need 4.9 or 5.0 to get a good vape.

You adjust voltage as needed to achieve the vape you want with that juice/coil.

So watt comparisons and thermodynamics are more theoretical discussions/comparisons whereas the 2.3 ohm stuff speaks to functional reality.

This varies by mod though. I tend to use higher ohms because I use a device that isn't boosted...so my VV box uses a buck regulator and that's more efficient at higher voltages (closer to stacked battery voltage = more efficient). It isn't limited to 4.8 volts though.

 

[sailense]

Hhhhhmmmmm, couple of problems on this thread. Power doesn't determine battery life, amps do, which is affected by the coil resistance. So, a higher resistance coil is going to give you longer battery life using the same power. Also, Current MULTIPLIED by resistance equals voltage. For the new vapers on here, I found this website extremely simple to use:

Watts - volts - amps - ohms conversion calculator

Check that out after you watch this video on Ohm's law and VAPING:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc90pdATEM0

The precise scientific understanding of these concepts is far less important than understanding their relationship, and how these variables affect your vaping experience. From a practical standpoint, if the juice tastes burnt, turn the voltage/power down. If you have variable wattage, start at 8 watts and adjust up or down to taste. If you have variable voltage only, add 2.0 to the Ohms on the coil, and adjust up or down to taste. If you don't have an Ohm meter, i.e., either a variable wattage mod or a multimeter, consider getting one. Many replaceable heads have the resistance (in Ohms) stamped on them, but even if they don't, start low and increase voltage until you find the vape you prefer. If you can't change voltage in you battery, then try and buy coils that have Ohm's approximately 2.0 less than your battery power voltage. For example, a fixed battery may have an output voltage of 3.7 volts, try to use a coil with about 1.5 - 1.8 Ohms.

If none of this makes sense, keep vaping until you find a setup that works for you. That's what most of us did in the beginning, and for the most part, what I do now. The important thing is that you're not smoking now, or in the process of quitting, and you're just trying to figure this stuff out and have the best experience possible. With you on that, and good luck! Power up and Vape On!

Well said.

Matt has some other really good videos up as well on his YouTube channel that are good for new vapers looking to learn more.

 

[Hipstertacos]

Thanks for your replies everyone, there's a lot of good information here. It also helped me to sort out what I'm trying to understand about this. I thought that amps were the sole difference between lower and higher ohm coils, but there's a lot more to it than that: surface area of the coil, how fast it heats, etc. that has the effect on how it vaporizes your juice. So much more to learn, but at least I'm having a lot of fun with this new hobby.

I guess I was trying to figure out which has the better vape: a lower or higher ohm coil (given the same watts and a proper VV device that can power both options). Or even simpler, which would you tell a rookie to buy: LR or SR cartos (or which HH357 resistance)? From the responses so far, I suspect that there's not an easy answer to that...

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Thanks for your replies everyone, there's a lot of good information here. It also helped me to sort out what I'm trying to understand about this. I thought that amps were the sole difference between lower and higher ohm coils, but there's a lot more to it than that: surface area of the coil, how fast it heats, etc. that has the effect on how it vaporizes your juice. So much more to learn, but at least I'm having a lot of fun with this new hobby.

I guess I was trying to figure out which has the better vape: a lower or higher ohm coil (given the same watts and a proper VV device that can power both options). Or even simpler, which would you tell a rookie to buy: LR or SR cartos (or which HH357 resistance)? From the responses so far, I suspect that there's not an easy answer to that...

The short answer is that you cannot determine this on paper. Buy them both and see which you prefer. 90% of vaping is just that, trial and error. Good luck to you!

 

[Hipstertacos]

Haha thanks bill, I kinda suspected as much. Looks like I will be AB testing a couple atomizers next time I order some vapemail. Much thanks for your response, and I'll check out that your youtube link when I get home!

The short answer is that you cannot determine this on paper. Buy them both and see which you prefer. 90% of vaping is just that, trial and error. Good luck to you!