AN OPEN LETTER TO ALL SELLERS OF "NEW REVISION-THICKER WICK" CE2s/E2s.

[hellcatrydr]

I am doing this without naming any of the offending suppliers... FOR NOW. But I am not going to continue accepting products I did not order! Nor will I continue handling it privately and quietly.

HERE IS THE PROBLEM: Some suppliers are advertising (posting on their sites) they are selling the "NEW REVISION-THICKER WICK" versions of (whatever their store branding name is) of CE2, E2, clearomizer-type and the metal ones too. People order from you because they have faith that you're telling the truth!

I understand that you have to do business with certain overseas companies who may have lied to you.
I am sick of you passing the lie on to me! If you are not SURE you have the new version, THEN SAY SO!!!!! I just received my SECOND order of "New Rev Thick Wick" 'mizer'" products that are really the OLD version. TWO different trusted suppliers have now done this to me AND I'LL BET MANY OTHERS!!!

You already know some major Asian manufacturers (RoyalSmoker, MicroCig, and e-liquid.cn to name a few) run a somewhat shady business model. And I'm sorry they may have promised you all new revision ce2/e2 products and then sent you a mixed lot. But that IS your problem.
I am not here for you to burn because you got burned.

And by the way... "Oh gee, we didn't know they were the old versions" is NOT an excuse! It is YOUR responsibility to send the buyer the PRODUCT ORDERED, (YES! The one you described in such vivid and tantalizing detail on your website!) not a similar but older model. (hoping they won't notice the difference!) So sellers, please remember: Ineptitude is pretty much equal to dishonesty... Because the end result is the same.

THIS "MIXED BATCH" FROM CHINA BECAME PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE RIGHT HERE ON ECF NEARLY 2 WEEKS AGO. THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED TO MANY CUSTOMERS! So there is no pretending you were unaware.

To keep the public trust, I don't care if you have to sit down & open every danged package! Or just tell the truth: "Hey, we don't really know what version we'll send you." would be fine. The one thing I WON'T accept is feeling cheated. From this point forward, I will be posting very negative supplier reviews (and feedback to ECF moderators) for any company who victimizes me again with this practice.

End of rant.


NOTE TO OTHER MEMBERS: Has this happened to you? Please let us know. But if you respond, please refrain from naming individual suppliers in this thread. There's time for that later if they don't change their ways.

 

[Valsacar]

I'd rather not have my supplier opening every one of my CE2s and then taking them apart to make sure that they are what their supplier told them. But that's just me.

 

[hellcatrydr]

I'd rather not have my supplier opening every one of my CE2s and then taking them apart to make sure that they are what their supplier told them. But that's just me.

Hey Val,
I respect that although it surprises me. And something I did not mention here is that I am perfectly happy with the old style CE2s. So happy in fact, I already have have several dozen of them stocked up!

I've read postings from some members in your camp as well: "Yeah... I already have a bunch of the old style, but they promised me the new style, took my money, and they still sent me the old style but I'm happy anyway." Yes, I admit I am absolutely stunned by this. A MAJOR part of my issue is that the sellers I refer to have not made any changes to their websites! No mention is made that buyers might receive the "other" version. To be fair: At lease one seller I know of HAS MADE CORRECTIONS TO THESE PRODUCTS ON HIS SITE. Props to him, BTW!

Compared to most here, with 4 months experience under my belt, I suppose I am still a noob. This is the first time I've had ANY supplier problem. Every registered supplier I have purchased to this point from has taken good care of me.

I think the seller should send me the product I ordered but I would value your opinion. What would you suggest I do when a supplier misleads me, takes my money, and then knowingly sends me the wrong product?
Should I:
Just keep buying from seller after seller until one sends me the product they advertised?
Take $100.00 worth of my time to return a $12.00 product?
Warn other members of the company by name?

I appreciate your time.

 

[mj64]

Your point is valid - However in life you pick your battles. This is a young industry and pretty much everyone here is a SUPPORTER of it, meaning they want it to thrive, not fall apart. I've had issues with several suppliers and most have taken care of them adequately. Return your product for a refund if thats what you want and quit ordering the darn things.

 

[Valsacar]

In this case there really is nothing they can do, besides apologize and offer to try again. The only way to tell if they actually got what they claim would be to open a box, open the packaging inside, and then take apart the CE2. Doing that to one out of a shipment would be ok (they would suck up the cost, or use them for something else like making replacements for MAP tanks). But since the problem is they get mixed batches, so they only way to really be sure would be to do that to EVERY box, and most customers would be pretty upset about getting already opened (and taken apart) products.

This has happened before when a new version of the CE2 comes out, if you really want to try the new ones but don't like the gamble just wait a month or two and stocks of the old should have ran out (from the Chinese supplier) and they should all be the new version... hopefully.

 

[hellcatrydr]

Your point is valid - However in life you pick your battles. This is a young industry and pretty much everyone here is a SUPPORTER of it, meaning they want it to thrive, not fall apart. I've had issues with several suppliers and most have taken care of them adequately. Return your product for a refund if thats what you want and quit ordering the darn things.

Let's not get overly dramatic mj. No one said anything about making the industry fall apart. I said sellers should Say what they sell, and sell what they say. At 4 months in, I've invested roughly $3,500.00 including kits purchased for family and friends. So I believe I've "supported the industry" adequately. That number includes at least $300.00 in purchases of products I did not care for. But that I chalk up as part of the learning curve, certainly not the seller's fault.

I can't help but notice in your response, you actually seem to endorse the unethical sales practice itself. This passive endorsement I believe, HARMS the industry by encouraging sellers to stretch the limits of honesty which may snowball onto other sellers who HAVE BEEN 100% above board until now. Weeds CAN take over the garden and choke out the good plants if nobody cares.

IMHO, Your message of 'The honesty battle isn't worth fighting' is a sad lesson for me, but a happy one for the tiny minority of ethics-challenged sellers.

 

[mj64]

Let's not get overly dramatic mj. No one said anything about making the industry fall apart. I said sellers should Say what they sell, and sell what they say. At 4 months in, I've invested roughly $3,500.00 including kits purchased for family and friends. So I believe I've "supported the industry" adequately. That number includes at least $300.00 in purchases of products I did not care for. But that I chalk up as part of the learning curve, certainly not the seller's fault.

I can't help but notice in your response, you actually seem to endorse the unethical sales practice itself. This passive endorsement I believe, HARMS the industry by encouraging sellers to stretch the limits of honesty which may snowball onto other sellers who HAVE BEEN 100% above board until now. Weeds CAN take over the garden and choke out the good plants if nobody cares.

IMHO, Your message of 'The honesty battle isn't worth fighting' is a sad lesson for me, but a happy one for the tiny minority of ethics-challenged sellers.

Blah, blah, blah. Hate to think how you'd have replied if I hadn't said you have a valid point. You are the one making a big deal with your open letter and threats of 'exposing' names. This ain't watergate.

 

[hellcatrydr]

In this case there really is nothing they can do, besides apologize and offer to try again. The only way to tell if they actually got what they claim would be to open a box, open the packaging inside, and then take apart the CE2. Doing that to one out of a shipment would be ok (they would suck up the cost, or use them for something else like making replacements for MAP tanks). But since the problem is they get mixed batches, so they only way to really be sure would be to do that to EVERY box, and most customers would be pretty upset about getting already opened (and taken apart) products.

This has happened before when a new version of the CE2 comes out, if you really want to try the new ones but don't like the gamble just wait a month or two and stocks of the old should have ran out (from the Chinese supplier) and they should all be the new version... hopefully.

Thank you for that advice. My writing about "opening em all' was an exaggeration to make a point. The point is these few sellers ALREADY KNOW it's a mixed bag, and yet they continue with the false 'New Rev' advertising, thereby gaining fraudulent sales.

 

[hellcatrydr]

Blah, blah, blah. Hate to think how you'd have replied if I hadn't said you have a valid point. You are the one making a big deal with your open letter and threats of 'exposing' names. This ain't watergate.

No need to flame me here. And please stop trying to twist my meaning.
You have made your position clear: You support unethical sellers. I only support ethical sellers. Calm down. Find something to do. Maybe you have some old clearos to ship? yes?

 

[LadyWeeps]

I'm of the mindset that the resellers of these products have been lied to by the manufacturer. The only reasonable means of holding this manufacturer responsible for his unethical actions would be to band together and refuse to buy from him until he can legally guarantee the product being shipped is indeed the product ordered.

 

[mj64]

No need to flame me here. And please stop trying to twist my meaning.
You have made your position clear: You support unethical sellers. I only support ethical sellers. Calm down. Find something to do. Maybe you have some old clearos to ship? yes?

Y'know man, not trying to flame you. I said you have a valid point. I guess I would prefer to give those suppliers the benefit of the doubt that they were not intentionally trying to defraud people, and if they left the new ads up its because they haven't got to fixing it yet, or forgot about it, or their kid was sick and they blew it.

 

[asidrave]

I agree with you 100% hellcatrydr. Vendors are completly responsible for what they sell...especially if the manufacturer or supplier misinformed the vendor. Every vendor should verify what they are selling to us. I understand that they cannot check every product that gets shipped to us...but if even one of us says something to the...they have the responsibility to make it right and check down the line who is responsible for the error and make it right to everyone that maybe affected.....recall the product and the vendor should take it up with their supplier.

 

[Atari]

I guess I approach everything in life with a buyer beware attitude, Im not saying it has always worked out the best for me in everything. But to a point it does begin to fall into the fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. That goes for both the end user and the middle man. But also take into consideration as you mull that last point, that the few china suppliers you mentioned have the market cornered. I have seen one American supplier that is in the process of making something of a completely new design on an existing idea (search JDModtronics I think is the name) and if I missed someone please forgive me but IMO it seems most new tech starts in china. With this kind of market supply and demand are very out of balance and your feelings are the end result. The suppliers aka middlemen want to be first on the market, first to bring out the next big thing, so they buy bulk quantities to meet the demand of us, the users that are looking for that perfect system. There we find another hitch, everyone has a different of what that is, give an eGo tank to a devoted box mod bottom feeder and they are not going to be happy. I love CE2, i use mini clearos to do reviews, I carry 2 giantomisers daily though they have gone down in flames I made a couple minor adjustments and they are now my work horse. But to the popular masses they are terrible. I love my Infinity with a xl clearo or a mini map tank, but I have had a lot of issues figuring out what works for me, you have made it pretty obvious that CE2 isnt for you. Im not blaming you or trying to stifle your anger, but unless the supplier has actual pics of the product I would email them and ask. Im going to get flamed for this but.....I hated the movie Hurt Locker, the academy and all my friends loved it. Several hours later I wanted to punch most of them in the face but again it was lesson learned, not everything is for you, and after $3000+ I would imagine you have found something you like, and hopefully love. I know this sucks but if you spent 3k and only had around $300 worth of things you didnt like, I think most users would say you are doing pretty good. Try new things, dont be so bitter and jaded that you stop trying new things, that is life, but always remember that everything isnt always going to exactly what you thought it would be.

 

[mwa102464]

Hellcatrydr,

I fully support your thread and agree fully with you, it is the owner of a certain manufacturer that likes to burn people and couldn't care a less about CS and pushes the supplies onto his retailers then they push them onto us, This is NO REASON TO PUSH THE GOODS ONTO US THE BUYERS. The goods should be sent back and replaced, any good manufacturer would take the bad product back and send out new product to his retailers, not this manufacture he wants every dime and has been using all of us as Beta testers for months since version one. I understand it is up to the individual whether they want to participate and purchase or not but to see a new product advertised and told you are getting it and not get it when you open it up is ABSOLUTELY uncalled for and bad business practice. It's just like this last release of the newest greatest and latest Giantomizer, they release them then sell them to thousands of people and take them off the market a week later and say they are revising them because they have a problem, that's a bunch of BS and even I got taken on this one and I fully expect a new 5 pack box to be provided by the vendor I purchased mine from and he can have my old ones back. Again I fully agree with your rant Hellcatrydr 100% doesn't matter if the industry is one day old or 20yrs old when your being told your purchasing one thing and get another of lesser perfection you have the right to a refund or replacement of your order, enough said by me.!

 

[Andyhrn]

Mandatory warranties
A mandatory warranty or maintenance agreement is a contract that comes with a product and is included in the total selling price. Under a mandatory warranty, your customer does not have the option to purchase the product without the warranty. Examples include standard manufacturers’ warranties that come with new vehicles, computers, electronic devices, appliances, and auto repair shops’ parts-and-labor warranties on repairs.
If your sale of the product is taxable, the mandatory warranty is also taxable.

 

[gramakittycat]

In the case of the clear-type wouldnt one be able to see the fatter wicking without breaking the integrity of the packaging at least with the regular size? Before fill ing an order?

 

[hellcatrydr]

I guess I approach everything in life with a buyer beware attitude, Im not saying it has always worked out the best for me in everything. But to a point it does begin to fall into the fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. That goes for both the end user and the middle man. But also take into consideration as you mull that last point, that the few china suppliers you mentioned have the market cornered. I have seen one American supplier that is in the process of making something of a completely new design on an existing idea (search JDModtronics I think is the name) and if I missed someone please forgive me but IMO it seems most new tech starts in china. With this kind of market supply and demand are very out of balance and your feelings are the end result. The suppliers aka middlemen want to be first on the market, first to bring out the next big thing, so they buy bulk quantities to meet the demand of us, the users that are looking for that perfect system. There we find another hitch, everyone has a different of what that is, give an eGo tank to a devoted box mod bottom feeder and they are not going to be happy. I love CE2, i use mini clearos to do reviews, I carry 2 giantomisers daily though they have gone down in flames I made a couple minor adjustments and they are now my work horse. But to the popular masses they are terrible. I love my Infinity with a xl clearo or a mini map tank, but I have had a lot of issues figuring out what works for me, you have made it pretty obvious that CE2 isnt for you. Im not blaming you or trying to stifle your anger, but unless the supplier has actual pics of the product I would email them and ask. Im going to get flamed for this but.....I hated the movie Hurt Locker, the academy and all my friends loved it. Several hours later I wanted to punch most of them in the face but again it was lesson learned, not everything is for you, and after $3000+ I would imagine you have found something you like, and hopefully love. I know this sucks but if you spent 3k and only had around $300 worth of things you didnt like, I think most users would say you are doing pretty good. Try new things, dont be so bitter and jaded that you stop trying new things, that is life, but always remember that everything isnt always going to exactly what you thought it would be.

Okay... Lets go with COLOR CODED RESPONSES...
Where the heck did you get that??? X-Omizer products are ALL I use! That's what I meant by "I'm perfectly happy with the old style ce2s." (Maybe it was the bold print that threw you...
Yes, there ARE pictures of the NEW REV versions on the cheating sellers sites. That's what I meant when I wrote "Vivid and tantalizing detail".
This is true. 90+% of my purchases (including X-Omizers, BTW) have been products I like from great sellers. Even the ones I did not like were fine products, (Atties, for example) I just preferred other products. So I am more than fortunate, I'm blessed. Not "jaded or bitter"... BLESSED.
THIS is the sum total of your advice as a Registered Reviewer??? REALLY??? Congratulations. Your endorsement of 'bait & switch' by dishonest and unethical sellers sets the members' expectations bar at a new low. Again... Wow. BTW, I reject your lil' piece of sage wisdom, VEHEMENTLY. I do expect EXACTLY what I paid for! And while I respect your opinion as a person, My opinion is that, in your position, you should be ashamed you put that where members can read it.
Atari, You've addressed many topics in your (oddly disjointed for a Registered Reviewer's) response. I went back & read it twice searching for something RELEVANT TO THE POINT OF THE ORIGINAL POST. (...Not that I wasn't enchanted by your complete misinterpretations and rambling coverage of everything from international commerce to cinema.) only to be disappointed in the end. Registered huh?... Well okay....

Mandatory warranties
A mandatory warranty or maintenance agreement is a contract that comes with a product and is included in the total selling price. Under a mandatory warranty, your customer does not have the option to purchase the product without the warranty. Examples include standard manufacturers’ warranties that come with new vehicles, computers, electronic devices, appliances, and auto repair shops’ parts-and-labor warranties on repairs.
If your sale of the product is taxable, the mandatory warranty is also taxable.

Ummmm.... what?

In the case of the clear-type wouldnt one be able to see the fatter wicking without breaking the integrity of the packaging at least with the regular size? Before filling an order?

Hi GKC! I LOVE that screen name! Very cool!
Yes, they come in a kind of translucent plastic wrap. But the unethical ones already know. This info came out 2 weeks ago and these 2 sellers, still, as of this posting, have not told their customers the truth.

Also an update: After several emails, BOTH of these sellers are giving me the run-around. (Not answering emails, delaying an answer, etc.)

 

[Atari]

Okay... Lets go with COLOR CODED RESPONSES...
Where the heck did you get that??? X-Omizer products are ALL I use! That's what I meant by "I'm perfectly happy with the old style ce2s." (Maybe it was the bold print that threw you...
Yes, there ARE pictures of the NEW REV versions on the cheating sellers sites. That's what I meant when I wrote "Vivid and tantalizing detail".
This is true. 90+% of my purchases (including X-Omizers, BTW) have been products I like from great sellers. Even the ones I did not like were fine products, (Atties, for example) I just preferred other products. So I am more than fortunate, I'm blessed. Not "jaded or bitter"... BLESSED.
THIS is the sum total of your advice as a Registered Reviewer??? REALLY??? Congratulations. Your endorsement of 'bait & switch' by dishonest and unethical sellers sets the members' expectations bar at a new low. Again... Wow. BTW, I reject your lil' piece of sage wisdom, VEHEMENTLY. I do expect EXACTLY what I paid for! And while I respect your opinion as a person, My opinion is that, in your position, you should be ashamed you put that where members can read it.
Atari, You've addressed many topics in your (oddly disjointed for a Registered Reviewer's) response. I went back & read it twice searching for something RELEVANT TO THE POINT OF THE ORIGINAL POST. (...Not that I wasn't enchanted by your complete misinterpretations and rambling coverage of everything from international commerce to cinema.) only to be disappointed in the end. Registered huh?... Well okay....

I really dont know why I am making the effort here, but again I will and well even keep with your color coded theme
I read the first long initial post, I was at work and happened to be checking on a few things and noticed this via rss feed, I also use almost exclusively ce2 products and thought I would have a look. I was also in the process of testing a new program for work and did not give this post my undivided attention, by the time I finished I had stoped and came back to this post about 6 times during down times in the software. For that I apologize. I also admit that I did not have time to read the follow up posts and did not see the part that you were perfectly happy with the regular ce2s
I generally meant that you can tell the difference between a stock photo from the supplier and a digital photo taken by your specific vendor in their office, since you did not mention the sellers I could not view these images for myself even if I would have had the time, so I could not make a judgment there
Thats wonderful, I had a less pleasant but similar experience with the eGo tanks when I got into the market, I kept buying attys thinking it was VG and some how I could fix it, I figured out my issues but in the long run it wasnt worth the time at the prices they used to be at.But there were the same misleading advertisements, and a huge flood of people that loved them, for about a month then the complaints started, some love them some hate them, long story short, none for me thanks.
Burn, I get it. Not the best line to go out on. I was trying to wrap up this long meandering ramble nicely. As for an endorsement, there was none, only a warning that yes this does happen, yes you are right, there is a problem. Now knowing that be warned IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. That was the expectation I was setting, yes I was telling people that thats what they should expect from any supplier they dont have a relationship with, expect that you need to buy with caution, check out what the community is saying about that product and if it matches what the seller is saying, you know who to believe. This is an unregulated industry, not going in to the FDA issue here. We as a community regulate it ourselves and if you want to see results here is my advice, You said you have emailed them, call them, give them a chance to resolve the problem, after those channels have been exhausted, as it sounds that they have as of your last post,NAME NAMES post it here, post it on their site, post it in their sub forums. They can delete it off their site but not this one. Be calm, honest and direct, IMO your first post came off as a ...... off rant. You have all right to be ...... off, I completely understand why you were ...... off, all I am saying is make them the bad guy. Tell people what happened how you tried to resolve it, post the emails if necessary. Just like everything else if one person stands up, people will start to crawl out of the wood work who have had the same issue. If you post the issue in their forum on here or any other forum they frequent they will be forced to respond or have their reputation drug through the mud along with their sales
As for my incessant rambling as I explained I did not give that post my full attention and again I apologize. The point about international commerce is that the American vendors don't really have any options but to EAT the problem, they cant just go to another trusted supplier. But it is their responsibility to be accountable, but unless you account for them the option to be dishonest and profitable will always be there. As for popular cinema, any one who told me to watch Hurt Locker has lost all credibility with me for movie reviews, much as Im sure you have an extremely low opinion of me for one post.

 

[hellcatrydr]

Well said.
No low opinion of you sir. You expressed a counter point, that's all.
And now with your new, more pointed post, it appears maybe we are not so different after all.

 

[Atari]

Lmao, I was a little miffed I must admit, But your right that some one needs to stand to vendors and make them accountable. I tend to knuckle under and take it while harboring deep resentment. Thats no way to be, but often I dont see it as worth the effort to do something about it. They already have my money, but that no reason they should get someone elses under false pretenses. How is this all working out BTW?