And another explosion hits the news

[sofarsogood]

I like kids. My defining experience was as big brother, oldest of six. We keep our distance from other people's kids unless the parent has given explicit permision to do otherwise. That is ancient common sense. Nobody gives anything to any kid their parents might not approve. How long has that been in common law, thousands of years? Regardless of how this happened the grownup in the situation violated rules so old they are probably in our dna. But it happens anywey and once in a while something bad happens. To paraphrase the bard, the fault is not in our ecigs but in our selves.

Having said that, I'm no fan of mech mods. They were on my road map unitl I watched a youtube video of a battery deliberately vented. Mechs are NOT a mass market consumer item and won't ever be unless we come up with harmless battery chemistry.

The best vape shops in my area are tobacco shops, not the vape specialty shops. If I explained why I'd just upset myself and it's too close to bed time.

 

[Kent C]

My point is, I don't understand why some vapers, who are faced with bans and restrictions and misconceptions from every angle, seem to always want to react with ban/remove it!.

These are liberals/progressives who operate in the same manner for all other products other than the ones THEY use. It's part of the package deal of 'we know what's best for you, but it doesn't apply to us' - see Diane Feinstein and her concealed carry weapon or Elizabeth Dole not wearing a seatbelt in her limousine. (the examples are too numerous to mention all).

Is it just fear of how good the anti side is at using everything against us? There are plenty of consumer goods out there that are potentially dangerous if used incorrectly, why is the first reaction in vaping to make it disappear? .

These are the RINO/moderate faction who care too much about what other people think, because the above group always uses this in the black PR campaigns about things they don't like. And these people are intimidated by it. Those who actually know what the libs are doing, realize this and it doesn't affect them.

Maybe I'm just feeling let down by our "leadership." The name of the game always seems to be compromise, but I never see what we get in return. We compromise by setting aside the truth, and I don't see how that ever helps us.

Not sure who you mean by 'our leadership' but I've seen the same. (I've mentioned this before about them 'angling' to get enough 'altitude' - by being 'reasonable' - ie not rational - in order to perhaps get a job in the FDA subsection for ecigs - in order to do that you have to speak the language of 'compromise'.)...

The way to beat them is not compromise - like the NRA - stand up for your right so long as it harms no one else - even if it harms you (not the job of the gov't) - and point out their "science" as junk. Empiricism doesn't trump rights. If 'studies' found that it was more beneficial to society to discriminate against certain people, that doesn't make it right. But that's exactly what they've done against smokers and now vapers. If it were against almost any other group of people, it would be rejected out of hand.

 

[Mazinny]

Does anyone know how these single cell 18650's end up in the vape market ? Not talking about Chinese made no name batteries, talking about LG, Samsung and Sony, giant companies, who clearly do not want their cells sold in the vape market.

 

[Lessifer]

You are entitled to your opinion as well as they are to theirs and I am sure those of a different opinion feels yours is wrong.
I honestly feel like (my opinion) a lot of vapers that are within communities and are aware what is happening have seen bans locally/statewide, have been watching this roll, pick up speed and know what the most anti-vocals are using against vaping would LOVE to see some sense of responsibility from the vape industry itself even if it is not naming your eliquid "bubble gum blast" because, yes, there is a feeling it is giving the opposition ammo to use against vaping.

(since you are referring to eliquid) Imagine this... no vendor ever name their flavors anything considered "kid appealing" or put "kid appealing" labels on the bottles... what would the anti-advocates who have the power to make and change laws have had to hold up at hearings to point to and say... look they are marketing to kids! So it is not surprising many feel the way the do when it comes to this issue both on a quit giving them ammo level, as well as, many do not like that marketing to kids tactic, period, level. It's their opinion, just like your opinion is your opinion.

Camel's flavors were things like Twist, Moroccan Mint, and Crema

It's not about the name, or the label. There is a fundamental idea that adding a flavor to anything tobacco related is "targeting children." Yes, people are entitled to their opinions. My opinion is that people who perpetuate this opinion rather than denouncing it for the lie that it is are wrong and ultimately doing more harm than someone who puts a dancing cookie on their label. Some vapers don't think we need more than tobacco and menthol flavors either, I think they're wrong too.

 

[Kent C]

Does anyone know how these single cell 18650's end up in the vape market ?

Two basic ways - 1. a vaper buys them from battery vendors, who sell no vapor products - just batts, chargers, etc. 2. Vape vendors sell them.

 

[Lessifer]

Does anyone know how these single cell 18650's end up in the vape market ? Not talking about Chinese made no name batteries, talking about LG, Samsung and Sony, giant companies, who clearly do not want their cells sold in the vape market.

I don't know, but I assume like other goods that are meant as components of other goods that they're sold through resellers and distributors. That's why I don't really see addressing this from the battery side as being all too plausible. The battery manufacturers have already said their peace, they don't condone the use of their batteries in vapor products. Asking them to put warning labels specific to vaping on the batteries isn't going to go far.

 

[Lessifer]

These are liberals/progressives who operate in the same manner for all other products other than the ones THEY use. It's part of the package deal of 'we know what's best for you, but it doesn't apply to us' - see Diane Feinstein and her concealed carry weapon or Elizabeth Dole not wearing a seatbelt in her limousine. (the examples are too numerous to mention all).




These are the RINO/moderate faction who care too much about what other people think, because the above group always uses this in the black PR campaigns about things they don't like. And these people are intimidated by it. Those who actually know what the libs are doing, realize this and it doesn't affect them.



Not sure who you mean by 'our leadership' but I've seen the same. (I've mentioned this before about them 'angling' to get enough 'altitude' - by being 'reasonable' - ie not rational - in order to perhaps get a job in the FDA subsection for ecigs - in order to do that you have to speak the language of 'compromise'.)...

The way to beat them is not compromise - like the NRA - stand up for your right so long as it harms no one else - even if it harms you (not the job of the gov't) - and point out their "science" as junk. Empiricism doesn't trump rights. If 'studies' found that it was more beneficial to society to discriminate against certain people, that doesn't make it right. But that's exactly what they've done against smokers and now vapers. If it were against almost any other group of people, it would be rejected out of hand.

More and more I see us squabbling over the minutiae, and not arguing the big points.

Vaping isn't smoking. I say it's not even tobacco, but that seems to upset some people on our side.
There is no credible evidence to date that even suggests a level of harm that would require the suggested regulations.
Sale to minors is already prohibited in nearly all states(if it isn't in all by now), not that there is anything intrinsically harmful to minors, no further protections are needed.

We argue about what mg/ml nic will be available while other countries, urged by our tobacco control and public health, are banning vaping outright and jailing those who dare violate that decree.

We need to call a spade a spade, a liar a liar, and stop helping them along by giving their nonsense ideas merit by treating them as if they deserve to be considered.

 

[Mazinny]

I don't know, but I assume like other goods that are meant as components of other goods that they're sold through resellers and distributors. That's why I don't really see addressing this from the battery side as being all too plausible. The battery manufacturers have already said their peace, they don't condone the use of their batteries in vapor products. Asking them to put warning labels specific to vaping on the batteries isn't going to go far.

Forget warnings, i don't even see original packaging, or even the name of the manufacturer. I'm not even 100 % sure i haven't bought a counterfeit !

 

[Lessifer]

Forget warnings, i don't even see original packaging, or even the name of the manufacturer. I'm not even 100 % sure i haven't bought a counterfeit !

Yeah, I don't blame the manufacturers for that though. Looking at a sony vtc-4, it's obviously not labeled for individual sale. This will be an issue that will likely be addressed, and I imagine it being addressed in the courts, and not turning out well for vapers.

 

[Mazinny]

Yeah, I don't blame the manufacturers for that though. Looking at a sony vtc-4, it's obviously not labeled for individual sale. This will be an issue that will likely be addressed, and I imagine it being addressed in the courts, and not turning out well for vapers.

I'm not assigning blame to anyone. I am just looking forward to the day this industry is considered 100 % legit, and major battery manufacturers are producing vape specific batteries.

 

[Lessifer]

I'm not assigning blame to anyone. I am just looking forward to the day this industry is considered 100 % legit, and major battery manufacturers are producing vape specific batteries.

For some reason I don't see them jumping at the prospect of joining the tobacco industry.

 

[zoiDman]

For some reason I don't see them jumping at the prospect of joining the tobacco industry.

Can't see someone like Sanyo wanting to sell RJ Reynolds 700K Cells to go into an FDA OK e-Cigarette?

 

[Lessifer]

Can't see someone like Sanyo wanting to sell RJ Reynolds 700K Cells to go into an FDA OK e-Cigarette?

Honestly, probably only if the agreement were that they only be used in sealed devices, and that the company is only referred to in marketing literature as "one of the world's leading battery manufacturers."

Tobacco is a pariah, I can see the fb soccer mom boycotts now, don't buy sanyo batteries, they provide batteries for big tobacco to use in their electronic cigarettes, hooking the next generation of tobacco addicts.

 

[zoiDman]

Honestly, probably only if the agreement were that they only be used in sealed devices, and that the company is only referred to in marketing literature as "one of the world's leading battery manufacturers."

Tobacco is a pariah, I can see the fb soccer mom boycotts now, don't buy sanyo batteries, they provide batteries for big tobacco to use in their electronic cigarettes, hooking the next generation of tobacco addicts.

I think FB Soccer Mom boycotts are very Overrated. But you might be Right.

BTW - Do you foresee many Devices, that the FDA will allow to be sold as e-Cigarettes, that will have Interchangeable Off-the-Shelf Batteries?

 

[Lessifer]

BTW - Do you foresee many Devices, that the FDA will allow to be sold as e-Cigarettes, that will have Interchangeable Off-the-Shelf Batteries?

Not really, no, but I also don't think it will be something they can effectively control. I'm pretty sure they know that, and devices aren't the choke point.

 

[OldBatty]

So are you say'n that sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar?

We desperately need someone with a George Carlin avatar in this thread.

 

[skoony]

I honestly feel like (my opinion) a lot of vapers that are within communities and are aware what is happening have seen bans locally/statewide, have been watching this roll, pick up speed and know what the most anti-vocals are using against vaping would LOVE to see some sense of responsibility from the vape industry itself even if it is not naming your eliquid "bubble gum blast" because, yes, there is a feeling it is giving the opposition ammo to use against vaping.

I can understand how others and you feel about this. All this falls by the wayside when
one considers if there were no flavors,colorful child like labels and, no unfortunate
battery mishaps and all e-cigs and juice bottles were stamped "for adult use only"
we would still be facing the very same deeming regulations we are right now.
Our opponents would still be just as virulent and lacking these low hanging excuses
make some up. It wasn't true for drinking and smoking. It isn't true now. They have
never been able to explain use of illegal things in this manner. At least I have never
seen any ads in the Sunday paper.

Regards
Mike

 

[Rossum]

We desperately need someone with a George Carlin avatar in this thread.

Will a meme do?

 

[ENAUD]

More and more I see us squabbling over the minutiae, and not arguing the big points.

Vaping isn't smoking. I say it's not even tobacco, but that seems to upset some people on our side.
There is no credible evidence to date that even suggests a level of harm that would require the suggested regulations.
Sale to minors is already prohibited in nearly all states(if it isn't in all by now), not that there is anything intrinsically harmful to minors, no further protections are needed.

We argue about what mg/ml nic will be available while other countries, urged by our tobacco control and public health, are banning vaping outright and jailing those who dare violate that decree.

We need to call a spade a spade, a liar a liar, and stop helping them along by giving their nonsense ideas merit by treating them as if they deserve to be considered.

Divide, then conquer.

 

[sofarsogood]

Does anyone know how these single cell 18650's end up in the vape market ? Not talking about Chinese made no name batteries, talking about LG, Samsung and Sony, giant companies, who clearly do not want their cells sold in the vape market.

There is also a fairly gigantic led flashligh market and a high percentage of the lights use 18650's. Once in a while they fail in a light and the flashahollics are aware of the problem. A difference with the lights, they draw an amp or two. The overwhelming majority of these accidents involve loose batteries or mech mods. Most of the mech mods do not have ventilation where it's needed.

I think the kids are interested in the clouds-bro thing, not the nic. Alll they need to do is get some VG and may be some vanilla extract at the grocery store and they have their cloud making material. If grownups are annoyed by the vapor so much the better.