Another awful Prue Talbot study

[Bill Godshall]

The 16mg nicotine cartridges Talbot wrote about actually contain 16mg/ml nicotine. But since the cartridges contain .6 - .7ml of liquiid, a cartridge marked 16mg actually contains 9-10mg of nicotine.

According to Nicotine (PIM)
ingesting 30-60mg of nicotine can be a lethal dose for adults, and ingesting 10mg of nicotine can be lethal for a child.

Not sure how those levels were estimated (as its unethical to knowingly poison people to find out lethal dosage of different chemicals), and I strongly suspect that actual lethal dosages (for both adults and children) are significantly higher than these estimates.

Regardless, it would be wise to not drink e-liquid, to wash skin off if more than a ml of e-liquid spills on you (although a drop or two of e-liquid on the skin is likely to be absorbed transdermally like a nicotine skin patch), and to not to leave bottles of e-liquid accessible to small children.

 

[Petrodus]

Prue Talbot finally threw in the towel and shut-down public Comments
on the Univ of CA website.

Just a guess...It's possible she didn't even know there was a page open for Comments and if she did she only recently reviewed the comments.

Univ of CA page with Comments:
http: //universityofcalifornia .edu/sites/uchealth/2010/12/03/study-e-cigarettes-are-unsafe-pose-health-risks/

Prue is probably demanding the person in charge of this page "head on a platter"
for not informing her earlier. (Comments were "moderated" before accepted)

 

[Traver]

I am Vaping between 2 and 3 ml per day 12mg/ml. At the high end of 3ml that would be a total of 36 mg. For my weight of 150lbs. that would be within the lethal range and I was smoking 24mg/ml till recently. I have read posts where people have said they are vaping 10ml per day and more. At 24mg/ml that would be 240mg of nicotine. By my calculations there are a lot of dead people continuing to post on this forum.

I realize that this is over a period of a day and we don't absorb all of the nicotine we vape. I'm not arguing with anyone but these numbers still aren't making sense to me.

I have to read that thread Petrodus posted and try to get a better understanding of this.

 

[Thulium]

I realize that this is over a period of a day and we don't absorb all of the nicotine we vape. I'm not arguing with anyone but these numbers still aren't making sense to me.

These numbers shouldn't make sense to you because the estimated LD50 of nicotine in lab animals has basically nothing to do with what is actually a lethal dose of nicotine.

Keep in mind that tobacco typically contains between 7-50 milligrams of nicotine per gram...and there's only one gram of tobacco in a cigarette, tho smokers only absorb about 1 milligram of nicotine per cigarette. That means that most of the nicotine is destroyed by the process of combustion and there could be a "lethal dose" of nicotine in just one cigarette...much less the 36 cigarettes a person could smoke in the same time it would take them to vape 3ml of e-liquid that contains 1.2% nicotine since many of us do that on a daily basis.

The truth of the matter is that everybody is different. Some people are not satisfied unless they get the equivalent of 4-5 packs of cigarettes a day or more and some people only smoke a few cigarettes a day and are quite satisfied. Once your body receives the level of nicotine it is craving, you will simply stop taking nicotine because we know that if we continue we will get increasingly uncomfortable and our bodies will protect us from overdose by making us uncomfortable or even vomiting if necessary to expel the excess nicotine.

The only real way for nicotine to actually kill someone is if it is taken in a very concentrated form so that a lethal dose would be able to reach the heart before the body can eliminate it. 0-3.6% is not what I would call "very concentrated"


Looking at just the "lethal dose" is invalid because obviously having a pack of cigarettes in your pocket isn't lethal even though it contains a lethal amount of nicotine. How can this be? Because it takes TIME for an overdose of nicotine to enter the bloodstream and trigger an infarction... Most scientists agree that it is practically IMPOSSIBLE to have a lethal overdose of nicotine from any tobacco products because the *ahem* concentrations are relatively low---notice I said "concentrations" not "level"... Just because 36mg of pure nicotine injected directly into your blood system might trigger a heart attack, that obviously doesn't mean that smoking 36 cigarettes that deliver about 1mg nicotine to your bloodstream would.

 

[Traver]

Thulium, great explanation. The key for me was:

The only real way for nicotine to actually kill someone is if it is taken in a very concentrated form so that a lethal dose would be able to reach the heart before the body can eliminate it. 0-3.6% is not what I would call "very concentrated"

 

[john doe]

Must keep in mind that as you absorb the nicotine the body starts metabolizing it. So unless you fill a cartridge with 4ml and finish it off in a very short time, say 1 hour, then the nic in your system is being broken down and removed continuously. That is why we get cravings for more as the day goes on. Also the body builds a tolerance over time and the lethal dose for a smoker/vaper is higher than for a non user.

 

[Sebastian]

You know what, to be perfectly honest. We shouldn't argue about ANYTHING that was prior to the ruling. Having been in this business for about 2 1/2 years this is something to truly celebrate. Everything prior to the ruling will be moot in some time..... Marketing and packaging are going to likely change.....but Pricing and Quality should improve drastically. Alot of money was spent for suppliers to get product in to our customers.... seizures, attorneys, shipments kicked back overseas. Now we have a product whose actual merits will stand on their own two feet...and the FDAs focus will be to ensure that the reason why a product may be superior or inferior justifies that price. And, if the product doesn't meet the status quo, well then that's the verdict.

Additionally, I am sure many legit industrial businesses will jockey for position in the market. Driving UP the quality and driving DOWN the price. I would conservatively say that the ruling should almost double the potential customer base. With Economies of Scale, the volumes suppliers purchase will drive down the price and essentially allow suppliers to offer a lower price to the customers.

All things being equal, I want to offer my product at a less expensive price and still offer the best service that I think my company is known for.... If things follow this course , and I am hopeful, good companies with good ethics will prevail.

Not a time to bicker...there's good things coming.... they maybe be 6 months out but they're coming!

Happy Vaping to All. This is the best present any on this site could have wished.

 

[Luisa]

I've sent Prue Talbot several dozen e-mails, but she's never responded.

I left a comment on the articles comment page. I suggested she read some of the studies on ecigs and also talk to people such as yourself and Dr. Nitzkin. She replied in quite a polite and thoughtful manner. I will be interested in knowing if she contacts you. I hope so.

 

[Petrodus]

Speaking for myself...

I agree this is a time to celebrate...We seldom get good news.

On the other hand... We know "they" are in the War Room now, planning their next attack. I'm not ready to "forgive and forget" and say can't we all just be friends.

Over time I've developed some calluses and I am sometimes too "quick on the trigger". However, a good defense is a good offence. I strongly believe any attack on our cause should be "swiftly" met with overwhelming (intelligent and truthful) salvos. Sarcasm is also sometimes a lethal weapon.

It is impossible to educate the public. It is possible (over time) to make many think twice before attacking with their propaganda, lies, and mis-information.

This isn't the "old days" when our numbers were few and the opposition felt free to attack with a sense of immunity.

Poke the vaper’s "hornet's nest" today..You will get stung!

 

[Petrodus]

I left a comment on the articles comment page. I suggested she read some of the studies on ecigs and also talk to people such as yourself and Dr. Nitzkin. She replied in quite a polite and thoughtful manner. I will be interested in knowing if she contacts you. I hope so.

Polite and thoughtful.... I know you can't quote here what she said, however, did she imply she doesn't have a computer and doesn't know how to use Google?

I know the above sounds sarcastic...However, I am involved in the sciences including research and publications. It is beyond comprehension that a professional would publish such propaganda trying to disguise it as science.

The only thing that makes any common sense is the following (copied from another "sister" thread)

An investigation would probably reveal that the Univ. of CA has a Pharmacy bursary – “Big Tobacco” pays the bill. Big Pharmacy is the organ grinder and the University of California is their little monkey.

 

[rothenbj]

Does anyone have the link to the actual study? I know it was posted somewhere and I had the link open, but can't find it now.

 

[Vocalek]

http ://press.psprings .co.uk/tc/december/tc37259.pdf

There you go.

 

[rothenbj]

Thanks Elaine, I was driving myself crazy looking for it this morning. I had started reading it and wanted to finish.