Another seemingly misleading article

[escapetovape]

@bombastinator I saw your article, and I got hit with a "breaking news" alert this afternoon.

Family issues vaping warning as man fights for life after collapsing outside Brisbane club | Daily Mail Online

Condolences to the affected and his family, I'm still not convinced that it was strictly PG/VG/Flavour vapes. I gave it a quick skim and didn't see any mention of what the liquid was, only the effect. Now those who know the Valley in Bris wouldn't be surprised if his vape was spiked in some way. What gets me is how it's taking the guy [affected] his condition and using it to push the anti-vape narrative.

 

[DavidOck]

From that:

He was told at the time he was vaping pure marijuana, unaware it was actually a potentially deadly concoction of synthetic fantasy and ketamine.

'Nuff said.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

Well it seems to have made it even more dangerous to buy illegally. More fakes.

Very true, more variety and more dangerous fakes. All the more reason to legalize it federally.

It drives me insane that I'm granted the freedom by the government to go buy a bottle of liquor (flavored liquor, by the way), a drug that kills over 80,000 in the US alone every single year and is the third leading cause of preventable death. But I'm not granted the freedom to go buy MJ. And soon, won't be granted the freedom to go buy some vanilla e-liquid. But I can go buy cigarettes, the #1 cause of preventable death.

$$$

 

[gpjoe]

Yep. Misinformation and rushing to judgement. To complicate matters drug users tend to lie about using drugs.

This.

Every time I read or hear a story about a teen that got ill while vaping black-market THC I think of this conversation:

Parent: OMG, junior, how did this happen?

Teen: I don't know mom (or dad) I was just vaping and don't feel well.

Parent: What were you vaping?

Teen: You know, just a Juul I got from Johnny.

Parent: I hope they ban all that vaping stuff!

The teen knows he or she will get his/her .... kicked or grounded for using THC so they conveniently leave that part out of the discussion. Meantime, we're buying out all the flavored e-liquid and nicotine base we can find before our mindless politicos ban all the stuff that is literally adding years to our lives.

 

[Zakillah]

@bombastinator I'm still not convinced that it was strictly PG/VG/Flavour vapes.

The article even says it was some sort of drug mix.
If PG/VG/Nic did this, we´d know for years and prolly all stopped vaping already.

It continues; people drink black market hard liquor, go blind and the media tells everyone its the glass thats the problem.

 

[bombastinator]

@bombastinator I saw your article, and I got hit with a "breaking news" alert this afternoon.

Family issues vaping warning as man fights for life after collapsing outside Brisbane club | Daily Mail Online

Condolences to the affected and his family, I'm still not convinced that it was strictly PG/VG/Flavour vapes. I gave it a quick skim and didn't see any mention of what the liquid was, only the effect. Now those who know the Valley in Bris wouldn't be surprised if his vape was spiked in some way. What gets me is how it's taking the guy [affected] his condition and using it to push the anti-vape narrative.

Yep. Misinformation and rushing to judgement. To complicate matters drug users tend to lie about using drugs.

 

[Toronnah]

Smoking an illicit substance provided by a complete stranger outside a bar. No, nothing could go wrong there.

Its not a vape horror story. It's a low IQ horror story.

 

[Rossum]

The THC/vitamin E acetate detail seems to be coming out as the real reason so many got sick in a short amount of time.

Yes, it does. But unfortunately the media is still doing its best to conflate the two kinds of vaping.

 

[DarrenMG]

Obviously you do want someone to tell you every move to make. The demonrat socialist party will be happy to lead you sheeple to the slaughter house.

Ahm no, I was a red type and will be again as soon as there is a moderate version, and the socialism stuff is equally as offensive to me. This a huge assumption. If you don't like donnie that means you don't like the red party, or you are a socialist (sadly there has been some of that). Being anti-donnie does not make me a socialist though. Both go to extremes. Government please stay out of my business. Vaping is in a strange way one of the best examples of government over-reach. I am not hurting anyone by vaping. I've told my doctor I vape to quit smoking. Yep we don't know that vaping is long term safe either, but what I do know is I feel better for it, I am really not harming anyone else, and what I don't need is my government interefering with this option. The free market will figure out if it is safe or not.

p.s. this if you are not for me, you are against me mindset sucks, it's such black and white thinking. You have to be red or blue, there is no middle ground, grrrr.

 

[escapetovape]

To complicate matters drug users tend to lie about using drugs.

absolutely, and no one really cares much as they have their straw man to attack and will look no further.

 

[Zazie]

The Daily Mail says the guy's cousin "issued a dire warning about the dangers of vaping." It then quotes the woman as saying, "Vapes are not necessarily dangerous… but the fact that anyone can put absolutely anything in them with significantly reduced fear of getting caught with a substance means that the likelihood of copping something that some fruitcake has concocted is profound. . . .Because it's a vape and you have no idea what quantities of substance goes into them, you also have absolutely no idea how insanely potent they could be." If I were she, I'd be furious at the way the article distorts my message.

 

[bombastinator]

It's worth pointing out that while Diacetyl is identified as a cause of "popcorn lung", there was never a single reported case linked with any vaper ever developing it. The single largest cause of Bronchiolitis obliterans (popcorn lung) remains smoking, not Diacetyl exposure in any environment.

Read somewhere a claim that diacetyl is present in cigarettes at something like 700 times the amount in e-cigarettes

 

[Dacholiday Dach]

i have heard pretty wrong comments on other places regarding oil vape pens (the most common name for thc carts and more...) so... i cant believe people getting confused or used to try someone else vapes without being sure whats inside? is pretty easy to get also counterfeit or fake oil carts now days, market is flooded in bad copies and counterfeits now days, i have used some of those carts, also have seen the fakes ones and diferences are pretty obvious...

I was looking for something the other day and wound up on dh gate. They are selling quantities of empty cartridges with the legal cannabis dispenseries names on them. And they are dirt cheap. Horrible.

 

[bombastinator]

Legalizing marijuana. What can go wrong?

Well it seems to have made it even more dangerous to buy illegally. More fakes.

 

[bombastinator]

Obviously you do want someone to tell you every move to make. The demonrat socialist party will be happy to lead you sheeple to the slaughter house.

The converse of this statement is you therefore think what you do and think is both your own thought and perfect and without flaw. That’s it’s own kind of crazy.

I particularly liked the reuse of dogwhistle phrases invented by others and the term “you sheeple” as if you’re not just as big of one yourself. Even the term “socialism” has become a misused dogwhistle term. I don’t think that word actually means what you think it does.

Reds have done a service to the country imho by pointing out imperfections in the blue line. The problem is the alternatives they offer seem to have much larger and more damaging imperfections. Just because one group points out that something is flawed doesn’t mean that their substitute is less flawed. Nothing is perfect. The choice is not which is unflawed, the choice is which is less flawed and how may of those known flaws can be dealt with.

 

[AttyPops]

I don’t think that word actually means what you think it does.

The converse is that he (and many others) doesn't know what "socialism" means. (it's an economic system with no private ownership of businesses/capital/means of production). Often confused by the uneducated masses with "social programs"...like the military, fire, police, education, or potentially healthcare. etc. They both have "s-words" in them. So confusing.

If he had said "capitalist welfare state" maybe he'd be closer.

But I digress. This is why talking to the extreme right is frustrating in a completely different way than talking to the extreme left (the real socialist party, not the dems) which is often frustrating too.

Politics best avoided.

 

[DarrenMG]

If PG/VG/Nic did this, we´d know for years and prolly all stopped vaping already.

Yes, though to be fair, I suppose any of the following are possible -

PG/VG might have some very long term negative effects, but that doesn't explain this case.

I suppose it's possible that with more young people vaping, that in a small percentage, some young lungs are susceptible to early side-effects from vaping PG/VG.

Nic salts have added another chemical into the variables, and only semi-recently appeared with the introduction of the JUUL. Plus, as far as I understand it, Benzoic acid is not the only acid being used to make nic salts, another variable.

If you remember the popcorn lung scare, it did raise our awareness that just because a flavoring is safe to eat, it doesn't necessarily mean it's good to vape.

Finally, there is always the possibility of a contaminated batch of e-juice, but that's true of the food we eat too.

--

Okay, well that's just the scientist in me that accepts there many possible factors, and it can take time to sort them out.

My money is on use of THC cut with vitamin E acetate, or who knows what other chemicals might be in use to cut to increase profits. When it comes illegal drugs people have a way of not being honest, or even necessarily reputable.

 

[Eskie]

Y

If you remember the popcorn lung scare, it did raise our awareness that just because a flavoring is safe to eat, it doesn't necessarily mean it's good to vape.
.

It's worth pointing out that while Diacetyl is identified as a cause of "popcorn lung", there was never a single reported case linked with any vaper ever developing it. The single largest cause of Bronchiolitis obliterans (popcorn lung) remains smoking, not Diacetyl exposure in any environment.

 

[Eskie]

Good god I'm not going to TRY it. I've already lost my teeth and thyroid to Lithium, I'd say I'm ah, committed.

I was just musing and wondering about what it would be like for depression, and what the delivery system and dose would need to be. I certainly am not going to try any "at home" experiments.

A lot of drugs famously thought to be "tragically dangerous" have been trialed for the type of depression or PTSD where like doctors are like, "This drug certainly can't make things WORSE."

Ketamine (under the correct circumstances) is considered to be a legitimate treatment for depression, it just happens to be one that insurance companies don't love to pay for and also, is sort of disruptive to living life.

It's not as dangerous as the propaganda states, other than if you take more than needed YEAH you are going to be pretty messed up and over time psychologically addicted, if not physically.

It's a bit like ecstasy. Sounds entertaining but NO, not going to try it.

Ketamine had a LONG life as a fairly safe anesthetic before people started abusing it.

When I say STARTLING effect on totally treatment resistant depression, I mean it.

I thought it also might be a bit too rich for my blood, being bipolar and all. Lithium was the right treatment for me.

I'm still wondering how vaping it might do. I don't think there will be studies, however. NOT because of the ketamine aspect but the VAPING aspect. That's a funding killer if I ever saw one.

But , no worries on this end, etc.

Anna

Esketamine has already been approved by the FDA for treatment resistant depression and is sold under the trade name of Spravato. It's delivered as a nasal spray. It is supposed to be used for induction under the direct supervision of a physician, so you can't just grab a sample from your doc and give it a shot at home. Yet.

I thought with lithium the liver went first. Lithium isn’t really an antidepressant anyway, it’s a mood stabilizer. A bipolar drug. Also a very old and now rarely used one.

Lithium is a mood stabilizer and despite it's serious side effects remains the standard all other drugs are compared to. It is still commonly prescribed for both bipolar illness and as a supplement to augment antidepressants in those with treatment resistance to an antidepressant alone. It's greatest risk is to the kidneys where it is excreted. It is not metabolized in the liver. If the dose is not carefully monitored it can cause kidney failure. Other mood stabilizers such as Depakote are metabolized in the liver and can over a long period of time cause liver damage and liver failure.

 

[Eskie]

3,000 Americans die from Aspirin every year. The only restriction on it is a tamper resistant cap. Granted, almost all of those deaths are in an older population group.

Tylenol (acetaminophen, or paracetamol as it's called in the EU and UK) remains a popular drug to commit suicide with. Deaths from overdoes, both intentional and accidental (just plain taking too much without realizing it) are estimated at about 450 per year. There are over 25,000 hospitalizations from Tylenol overdoses (intentional and accidental) per year. It is sold over the counter.