Another seemingly misleading article

[escapetovape]

@bombastinator I saw your article, and I got hit with a "breaking news" alert this afternoon.

Family issues vaping warning as man fights for life after collapsing outside Brisbane club | Daily Mail Online

Condolences to the affected and his family, I'm still not convinced that it was strictly PG/VG/Flavour vapes. I gave it a quick skim and didn't see any mention of what the liquid was, only the effect. Now those who know the Valley in Bris wouldn't be surprised if his vape was spiked in some way. What gets me is how it's taking the guy [affected] his condition and using it to push the anti-vape narrative.

 

[bombastinator]

@bombastinator I saw your article, and I got hit with a "breaking news" alert this afternoon.

Family issues vaping warning as man fights for life after collapsing outside Brisbane club | Daily Mail Online

Condolences to the affected and his family, I'm still not convinced that it was strictly PG/VG/Flavour vapes. I gave it a quick skim and didn't see any mention of what the liquid was, only the effect. Now those who know the Valley in Bris wouldn't be surprised if his vape was spiked in some way. What gets me is how it's taking the guy [affected] his condition and using it to push the anti-vape narrative.

Yep. Misinformation and rushing to judgement. To complicate matters drug users tend to lie about using drugs.

 

[escapetovape]

To complicate matters drug users tend to lie about using drugs.

absolutely, and no one really cares much as they have their straw man to attack and will look no further.

 

[DavidOck]

From that:

He was told at the time he was vaping pure marijuana, unaware it was actually a potentially deadly concoction of synthetic fantasy and ketamine.

'Nuff said.

 

[Zakillah]

@bombastinator I'm still not convinced that it was strictly PG/VG/Flavour vapes.

The article even says it was some sort of drug mix.
If PG/VG/Nic did this, we´d know for years and prolly all stopped vaping already.

It continues; people drink black market hard liquor, go blind and the media tells everyone its the glass thats the problem.

 

[escapetovape]

I honestly didn't see that @DavidOck.

unaware it was actually a potentially deadly concoction of synthetic fantasy and ketamine.

So (rhetorical question), how does fantasy and ketamine relate to vaping? Meh who cares....

*as uneducated*

VAPE BAD...IT REALLY BAD!!!

 

[Eskie]

From that:

He was told at the time he was vaping pure marijuana, unaware it was actually a potentially deadly concoction of synthetic fantasy and ketamine.

'Nuff said.

I was about to cut and paste that exact sentence into the thread. That is as clear an explanation as you could ask for into this event. I feel bad, but really, taking a hit off someone else's vape when you only have their word for what it is? Might as well be passing the crack pipe around and then have someone say "See? Breath in stuff and look what happens! It's just like vaping!"

Oh, and "syntheitc fantasy" is ..... Four puffs of that with ketamine and passing out but still surviving isn't the worst outcome.

 

[Baditude]

 

[DarrenMG]

If PG/VG/Nic did this, we´d know for years and prolly all stopped vaping already.

Yes, though to be fair, I suppose any of the following are possible -

PG/VG might have some very long term negative effects, but that doesn't explain this case.

I suppose it's possible that with more young people vaping, that in a small percentage, some young lungs are susceptible to early side-effects from vaping PG/VG.

Nic salts have added another chemical into the variables, and only semi-recently appeared with the introduction of the JUUL. Plus, as far as I understand it, Benzoic acid is not the only acid being used to make nic salts, another variable.

If you remember the popcorn lung scare, it did raise our awareness that just because a flavoring is safe to eat, it doesn't necessarily mean it's good to vape.

Finally, there is always the possibility of a contaminated batch of e-juice, but that's true of the food we eat too.

--

Okay, well that's just the scientist in me that accepts there many possible factors, and it can take time to sort them out.

My money is on use of THC cut with vitamin E acetate, or who knows what other chemicals might be in use to cut to increase profits. When it comes illegal drugs people have a way of not being honest, or even necessarily reputable.

 

[Zazie]

The Daily Mail says the guy's cousin "issued a dire warning about the dangers of vaping." It then quotes the woman as saying, "Vapes are not necessarily dangerous… but the fact that anyone can put absolutely anything in them with significantly reduced fear of getting caught with a substance means that the likelihood of copping something that some fruitcake has concocted is profound. . . .Because it's a vape and you have no idea what quantities of substance goes into them, you also have absolutely no idea how insanely potent they could be." If I were she, I'd be furious at the way the article distorts my message.

 

[Eskie]

Y

If you remember the popcorn lung scare, it did raise our awareness that just because a flavoring is safe to eat, it doesn't necessarily mean it's good to vape.
.

It's worth pointing out that while Diacetyl is identified as a cause of "popcorn lung", there was never a single reported case linked with any vaper ever developing it. The single largest cause of Bronchiolitis obliterans (popcorn lung) remains smoking, not Diacetyl exposure in any environment.

 

[bombastinator]

I honestly didn't see that @DavidOck.



So (rhetorical question), how does fantasy and ketamine relate to vaping? Meh who cares....

*as uneducated*

VAPE BAD...IT REALLY BAD!!!

The issue is the shape of the device. You can put basically any liquid in an atomizer, and marketing is pushing the existence of the device while avoiding what is actually IN the device. People are visual. Cigarettes actually have the same problem, but there is money repressing that bit.

 

[Rossum]

It's worth pointing out that while Diacetyl is identified as a cause of "popcorn lung", there was never a single reported case linked with any vaper ever developing it. The single largest cause of Bronchiolitis obliterans (popcorn lung) remains smoking, not Diacetyl exposure in any environment.

My recollection is that there aren't any cases linked to exclusively to smoking either.

That said, I still think it's dumb to vape flavors with high levels of diketones.

 

[bombastinator]

It's worth pointing out that while Diacetyl is identified as a cause of "popcorn lung", there was never a single reported case linked with any vaper ever developing it. The single largest cause of Bronchiolitis obliterans (popcorn lung) remains smoking, not Diacetyl exposure in any environment.

Read somewhere a claim that diacetyl is present in cigarettes at something like 700 times the amount in e-cigarettes

 

[Baditude]

Read somewhere a claim that diacetyl is present in cigarettes at something like 700 times the amount in e-cigarettes

What's In a Cigarette?

Media Bias Exposed: 'Popcorn Lung' Chemical 750 Times ...

 

[Eskie]

What's In a Cigarette?

Media Bias Exposed: 'Popcorn Lung' Chemical 750 Times ...

I'll trust you on that link. If the type size they chose to use was any smaller, it could be microprinitng from the US Mint they use to thwart counterfeiters.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

Yeah I don't vape diacetyl, but I'm fairly convinced it's not the problem it was made out to be. @Rossum nailed it - where's the popcorn lung in smokers? However, I'm not interested in gambling. Gambled once, won ten bucks, never gambled again. Prefer to stay ahead of the curve when possible...

 

[Baditude]

I'll trust you on that link. If the type size they chose to use was any smaller, it could be microprinitng from the US Mint they use to thwart counterfeiters.

A lot of the printed medical studies tend to do that. Most browsers allow you to adjust the print size on a desktop computer; just saying.

In other news...

The FDA orders vape juice to taste like fecal matter in light of youth vaping crisis

 

[Rossum]

Read somewhere a claim that diacetyl is present in cigarettes at something like 700 times the amount in e-cigarettes

Yeah, that number has been bandied about a lot. But the reality is that it depends on the juice. Some (a few) produced exposure greater than from cigs. Many (most?) had much less. If you took the average of all juices ever made, the 700x less number is probably in the right ballpark.

 

[iVapeDIY]

The FDA orders vape juice to taste like fecal matter in light of youth vaping crisis

N.J. could ban vaping completely, powerful Democrat says

State lawmakers considered a bill (S298/A3704) in 2017 to ban the sale and distribution of flavored e-cigarettes in New Jersey.

The measure would have permitted three flavors to stay: menthol, clove, and tobacco. But the bill stalled in the Legislature.​

Clove flavor ....