Any Christian/Masons here?

[blondeambition3]

So, how does a Christian balance that out or take that into consideration is my question?

I don't think we can Lisa...I think we just 'take up our crosses' with Christ & walk in love. We're to focus on 'feeding the Sheep' as Christ commanded and work at keeping our minds fixed on HIM continually. He keeps our paths straight & our beliefs in line so that we don't stray.. and then 'when' & 'if' we do, he leaves the Herd of 99 to find the one.


Ephesians 6:12 - For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

 

[Southern Gent]

I don't think we can Lisa...I think we just 'take up our crosses' with Christ & walk in love. We're to focus on 'feeding the Sheep' as Christ commanded and work at keeping our minds fixed on HIM continually. He keeps our paths straight & our beliefs in line so that we don't stray.. and then 'when' & 'if' we do, he leaves the Herd of 99 to find the one.


Ephesians 6:12 - For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Jesus told His own apostles in Luke 9: "if they are not against us..they are with us." Indeed our fight is not with the Masons or any other civic organization. The prince of darkness is enough of a foe for any of us.

 

[leaford]

Apart from it being a non-religious organization there is little difference between that society and the society of denominations among churches. Denominations/movements also come from questionable roots at times. Do you pledge allegiance to the flag? If one does, how is that any different than a Masonic pledge. It is regardless of what one says, a pledge to a cause or movement. Now, just because someone is loyal to something does not mean that the group/function that they are loyal to supplants God and Christ. The very men who walked with Jesus were loyal to their group. There were no doubt Zealots and Essenes and all were very loyal to the cause of their people. This did not negate their belief in God.

Jesus told His own apostles in Luke 9: "if they are not against us..they are with us." Indeed our fight is not with the Masons or any other civic organization. The prince of darkness is enough of a foe for any of us.

Southern Gent, I think I like you!

I enjoy debating things, and witnessing other people's debates, so I spend a little too much time reading the back and forth arguments between militant athiests and extreme fundamentalist faithers. The one side tends to be too strident and condemnatory, and the other is often just plain nuts.

It is very refreshing to hear from a moderate, reasonable, and above all SANE faither. I know you and yours are the VAST majority, but I just don't listen to them often enough. Thank you!

 

[LisaLisa]

RO 14:19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

RO 14:22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

These verses came to my mind. I think it basically means, if you have doubts, then it's a sin for you. If not, then it's not a sin for you. So, for me, it would be a sin to join an organization like this, but if someone does not have doubts, and believes that it's all good, then it's not a sin for them. This can probably apply to anything, I think food was just an example.

 

[Southern Gent]

RO 14:19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

RO 14:22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

These verses came to my mind. I think it basically means, if you have doubts, then it's a sin for you. If not, then it's not a sin for you. So, for me, it would be a sin to join an organization like this, but if someone does not have doubts, and believes that it's all good, then it's not a sin for them. This can probably apply to anything, I think food was just an example.

Indeed you are correct Sis!! For you to feel there may be something unsavory there and still be a part could cause you to stumble or be a stumbling block to you. And yes this could apply to many things in life..alcohol, cigarettes, lottery and most anything..even Christmas for some.

 

[LisaLisa]

I don't think we can Lisa...I think we just 'take up our crosses' with Christ & walk in love. We're to focus on 'feeding the Sheep' as Christ commanded and work at keeping our minds fixed on HIM continually. He keeps our paths straight & our beliefs in line so that we don't stray.. and then 'when' & 'if' we do, he leaves the Herd of 99 to find the one.


Ephesians 6:12 - For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Yes! Amen to that too!!!!!!!!!

 

[lmrasch]

Yum, Yum, Yum....God's Word is so delicious the way it is being served.....I so joyfully concur with the application here .

 

[Bigham1]

No Man Stands So Tall As When He Stoops To Help A Child

That is exactly how you feel when you are out there collecting or in a parade or just helping.

 

[Bigham1]

I want to applaud you too, Bingham. I am an athiest, personally, but I am absolutely not an anti-religious athiest. I acknowledge, respect, and admire all the good deeds that religion inspires, and believe that outweighs the evil religions have sometimes been guilty of. You and your brothers, and other like minded people of faith (any faith; I have jewish, buddist, pagan and taoist friends who are likewise very active in charity and public works, and whille I never happened to meet any personally I am equally sure there are muslims, hindus, shintoists, etc etc, of a like mind as well) prove the value of religion to me, even if I do think they are factually incorrect in their beliefs. Keep up the good work, and hopefully you will inspire others to follow.

I do have to question though, why does the Masonic organization REQUIRE a belief in a higher power? If good deeds and helping others are the whole point, what difference does it make whether one is inspired by religion, or just by a love for one's fellow man?

Please understand I am not criticising, and certainly not criticising YOU personally. I just find it to be a silly little restriction, and think you are barring many people who would otherwise be fine members and could contribute, and uphold your traditions and goals, just as much as a believer would.

Leaford,

I don't know exactly why they don't let everyone in regardless of religion or in this case lack there of. It might have something to do with our oath and promising to up hold our oath. I guess if you are promising to a god you will be bound by a stronger tie.

You could always lie and say you believe. Since you don't believe in a god it won't matter anyway. Lol

Leaford Can I ask you a question? Maybe you will be able to answer it. What do you say when you have a life threatening situation? When I have a close call with death I know I say oh my God, Thank God or something with the word God in it.

I am just curious.

I used to not believe in god. But almost everyone in the world believes in some God. Wheather it is a christian, muslim, buddist jew and so on. The thought of that alone was enough to make me think that there was a god. I used to think that religion was started by man to control man. But even small tribes of people cut off from the rest of the world believe thet there is someone watching over them. There was also something inside of me telling me to do good things, to treat people nice and just be a good human in general.

Sorry to get off topic.

Thank you Leaford.

 

[leaford]

Leaford,

I don't know exactly why they don't let everyone in regardless of religion or in this case lack there of. It might have something to do with our oath and promising to up hold our oath. I guess if you are promising to a god you will be bound by a stronger tie.

You could always lie and say you believe. Since you don't believe in a god it won't matter anyway. Lol

Frankly, I find that a bit insulting, on both sides of the coin. Not only the implication that because I don't believe in a diety that I don't believe in truthfulness and honorability, but also the implication that your fellow believers are more likely to be honorable and truthful out of fear of divine judgement than from their own sense of morality. Personally, I think you're wrong on both sides. To paraphrase Christopher Hitchens, with or without religion, an honest man will be honest and a dishonest man will be dishonest.

Leaford Can I ask you a question? Maybe you will be able to answer it. What do you say when you have a life threatening situation? When I have a close call with death I know I say oh my God, Thank God or something with the word God in it.

I am just curious.

I used to not believe in god. But almost everyone in the world believes in some God. Wheather it is a christian, muslim, buddist jew and so on. The thought of that alone was enough to make me think that there was a god. I used to think that religion was started by man to control man. But even small tribes of people cut off from the rest of the world believe thet there is someone watching over them. There was also something inside of me telling me to do good things, to treat people nice and just be a good human in general.

Sorry to get off topic.

Thank you Leaford.

It is going off topic, and I really don't want to get into a religion versus athiesm discussion here. This is your guys sandbox, I am a visitor, and want to respect the rules of your playground. As I understand it, avoiding those kinds of discussions is a big part of the purpose of this subforum.

So, instead, I'm opening a thread in the OUTSIDE forum to answer the rest of your post. I invite anyone who can discuss things civilly to join us. Especially you, Southern Gent! You're the kind of preacher who is all right in my book.

Here's the link to the thread to continue this discussion: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s-about-non-militant-athiesm.html#post2004561

 

[LisaLisa]

Frankly, I find that a bit insulting, on both sides of the coin. Not only the implication that because I don't believe in a diety that I don't believe in truthfulness and honorability, but also the implication that your fellow believers are more likely to be honorable and truthful out of fear of divine judgement than from their own sense of morality. Personally, I think you're wrong on both sides. To paraphrase Christopher Hitchens, with or without religion, an honest man will be honest and a dishonest man will be dishonest.



It is going off topic, and I really don't want to get into a religion versus athiesm discussion here. This is your guys sandbox, I am a visitor, and want to respect the rules of your playground. As I understand it, avoiding those kinds of discussions is a big part of the purpose of this subforum.

So, instead, I'm opening a thread in the OUTSIDE forum to answer the rest of your post. I invite anyone who can discuss things civilly to join us. Especially you, Southern Gent! You're the kind of preacher who is all right in my book.

Here's the link to the thread to continue this discussion: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s-about-non-militant-athiesm.html#post2004561

Thank you so much Leaford, for being respectful of our little oasis here. I appreciate that more then you know.

 

[leaford]

Thank you so much Leaford, for being respectful of our little oasis here. I appreciate that more then you know.

Think nothing of it, Lisa. Just common courtesy.

 

[Bigham1]

Like I said Leaford, I don't really know the answer to that question. I am just speculating. But it wasn't meant to be insulting.

 

[leaford]

Like I said Leaford, I don't really know the answer to that question. I am just speculating. But it wasn't meant to be insulting.

Oh, I'm sure you didn't. And I didn't take it as an actual insult. But those are the logical implications of what you said, and of the idea behind it. Which, as I said, I disagree with.

Please consider joining me over in the OUTSIDE forum to continue this, ok?

 

[Jason_in_nc]

Every church I have ever been too taught that Christians should not be FreeMasons. Something about the oaths.

I have nothing more to add.

 

[Southern Gent]

Every church I have ever been too taught that Christians should not be FreeMasons. Something about the oaths.

I have nothing more to add.

This will likely be the standard M.O. of a lot of churches. It is a fear factor and we have a tendency to condemn that which we fear or don't understand. A point of contention to remember is that just because something is taught by a church or religious university does not mean that it is always correct. Most churches teach abstinence from alcohol, the Bible teaches no such thing. Churches teach that Jesus made non-alcoholic wine, if it were not alcohol then we have no miracle at Cana. Just because it is taught does not make it correct. If Satan is behind the Masons, well, he does some mighty fine work and it is evident that he cares for sick children and their families. If this is true we need to rethink our whole theology because we have missed it completely.

 

[Jason_in_nc]

What are the oaths?

Like I was saying in the other thread, if the Oaths ask Masons to put allegiance to the order of Mason's and their Mason "brothers" above all else, then Christians should not be among their membership.

I don't know what their oaths are specifically but I have been led to believe that they make such requirements.