Any Vapers Mechanics ?!?!?! Need Some Help!

[CaSHMeRe]

Hey Guys ....

I have an old (22 years old) boat, that my buddy and I have been trying to get up and running good over the past couple of months .... We even went as far as replacing a head gasket ourselves !!!! WOOT ; If you are a boat enthusiast ... my buddy also just picked up a 1972 Chrysler -- LOL -- for $400 bucks. We enjoy trying to restore ... sometimes we are successful, sometimes not, but we do try

Boat:
351w (Ford 351) cabeurated

After the head gasket replacement ... She purred like a kitten up until this last weekend when we tried to take her out.

Ran Great for 15-20 minutes, all of a sudden, starter started to engage .... Would still run, you just hear the chomping at the bit of the starter in the background. (mind you, starter is quite new)

Pulled the starter wire from the solenoid, and starter stopped ... Thankfully. Figured it was the solenoid acting up .... Got the boat back to the dock, picked up a new solenoid, slapped her on, took her out the next day.

Same thing happened ... Except this time, ignition switch off wouldn't kill the engine. We pulled the battery negative terminal, still going (nice to know the alternator is doing its job), pulled the starter solenoid connection ... still going ... pulled the ignition cable off solenoid = engine stopped.

So ... I figured, the likely culprit was the ignition itself .... Wrong. Replaced that this evening ... Hook everything back up to the solenoid, go to put the negative terminal back on the battery, and she tries to fire up

So, my question
1. What would cause the engine to crank and try and fire by me simply trying to connect the battery back up (mind you, ignition is off)

Sorry for the long post guys .... This boat is killing me.

CLIFF NOTES:
* Replaced Ignition
* Replaced Solenoid
* Starter is only about a year old
* With ignition off and battery disconnected, as soon as you try to hook back up, she tries to fire.

 

[Richie G]

Hey Guys ....

I have an old (22 years old) boat, that my buddy and I have been trying to get up and running good over the past couple of months .... We even went as far as replacing a head gasket ourselves !!!! WOOT ; If you are a boat enthusiast ... my buddy also just picked up a 1972 Chrysler -- LOL -- for $400 bucks. We enjoy trying to restore ... sometimes we are successful, sometimes not, but we do try

Boat:
351w (Ford 351) cabeurated

After the head gasket replacement ... She purred like a kitten up until this last weekend when we tried to take her out.

Ran Great for 15-20 minutes, all of a sudden, starter started to engage .... Would still run, you just hear the chomping at the bit of the starter in the background. (mind you, starter is quite new)

Pulled the starter wire from the solenoid, and starter stopped ... Thankfully. Figured it was the solenoid acting up .... Got the boat back to the dock, picked up a new solenoid, slapped her on, took her out the next day.

Same thing happened ... Except this time, ignition switch off wouldn't kill the engine. We pulled the battery negative terminal, still going (nice to know the alternator is doing its job), pulled the starter solenoid connection ... still going ... pulled the ignition cable off solenoid = engine stopped.

So ... I figured, the likely culprit was the ignition itself .... Wrong. Replaced that this evening ... Hook everything back up to the solenoid, go to put the negative terminal back on the battery, and she tries to fire up

So, my question
1. What would cause the engine to crank and try and fire by me simply trying to connect the battery back up (mind you, ignition is off)

Sorry for the long post guys .... This boat is killing me.

CLIFF NOTES:
* Replaced Ignition
* Replaced Solenoid
* Starter is only about a year old
* With ignition off and battery disconnected, as soon as you try to hook back up, she tries to fire.

I would check the ignition switch itself. You say you replaced the "ignition" in your post. Meaning the switch? Regardless, the switch is making when the key is in the "off" position. If your Prodigy was firing up while it was laying on your desk, you'd know what the problem was, right? LOL You may have replaced a bad ignition switch with another bad one... yet another job for the multimeter! The feeling here is that the switch has an intermittent short -- from 'off' to 'start' and from 'on' to 'start'. If the switch checks out okay (rock the key side to side and up and down while watching for an ohm meter change of state) then I'd look for a harness short.

Rule out the solenoid switch. The fact that it is getting voltage and attempting to engage the bendix drive tells us that it is okay -- it's just getting that voltage at the wrong time.

What year is this 351 Windsor, btw? You say its got a carb? So, it's low tech ignition too?

 

[CaSHMeRe]

I would check the ignition switch itself. You say you replaced the "ignition" in your post. Meaning the switch? Regardless, the switch is making when the key is in the "off" position. If your Prodigy was firing up while it was laying on your desk, you'd know what the problem was, right? LOL You may have replaced a bad ignition switch with another bad one... yet another job for the multimeter! The feeling here is that the switch has an intermittent short -- from 'off' to 'start' and from 'on' to 'start'. If the switch checks out okay (rock the key side to side and up and down while watching for an ohm meter change of state) then I'd look for a harness short.

Rule out the solenoid switch. The fact that it is getting voltage and attempting to engage the bendix drive tells us that it is okay -- it's just getting that voltage at the wrong time.

What year is this 351 Windsor, btw? You say its got a carb? So, it's low tech ignition too?

LOLOLOL .... Thanks Richie ...

If it was a Prodigy, I would infact know what the issue was LOL

Anyways ... That is what was replaced ... The actual Ignition Switch. The boat has its original ignition switched out with Electronic Ignition I guess a few years ago.

I really hope I didn't just replace the ignition switch with another bad one It was hard enough finding this one

351 windsor -- 87-90 (it was a new long block installed in 03) Yup, still carb'd Simple -- Just the way I like it. Sad part is, I know fuel inj better than I know carb'd motors .... This was a new learning experience for me! I now know how to adjust the choke and idle ... very new things for me

Time to go test the ignition again .... what ohm's reading should I be seeing in the different positions ???

Thanks for your help Richie ... If its a harness short, she will likely be down and out until next summer

 

[CaSHMeRe]

o....another thing....

A short would cause this Richie? All the terminals on the back of the ignition switch/lock looked great. No wires were exposed down through the dash (atleast from what I could see)

 

[Richie G]

Time to go test the ignition again .... what ohm's reading should I be seeing in the different positions ???

Thanks for your help Richie ... If its a harness short, she will likely be down and out until next summer

I'm not much of a boat guy, Steve. So, I'm having a little trouble envisioning the type of switch we're talking about. I'm pretty sure it's not in a steering column like most of my Ford cars though. LOL

It's a panel mounted switch, right? You're not looking for specific ohm readings here -- just open and closed circuits. When the switch is in the "off" position you shouldn't have continuity from the common terminal to the "start" terminal. Ditto from "run" to "start".

Another quick test might be to re-connect the battery (like you did previously) with everything in place except the iggy switch. That might help us eliminate other weird possibilities before the voltage even gets to the switch. Dig? Just don't let the ignition switch wires short to ground...

 

[Richie G]

o....another thing....

A short would cause this Richie? All the terminals on the back of the ignition switch/lock looked great. No wires were exposed down through the dash (atleast from what I could see)

See the previous post, but we're on the same page. =) With the iggy switch not in the ckt, if the starter tries to engage as soon as you connect the battery, then there is a definite short somewhere upstream of the iggy switch.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

I'm not much of a boat guy, Steve. So, I'm having a little trouble envisioning the type of switch we're talking about. I'm pretty sure it's not in a steering column like most of my Ford cars though. LOL

It's a panel mounted switch, right? You're not looking for specific ohm readings here -- just open and closed circuits. When the switch is in the "off" position you shouldn't have continuity from the common terminal to the "start" terminal. Ditto from "run" to "start".

Another quick test might be to re-connect the battery (like you did previously) with everything in place except the iggy switch. That might help us eliminate other weird possibilities before the voltage even gets to the switch. Dig? Just don't let the ignition switch wires short to ground...

Haha ... I wasn't much of a boat guy either until I moved to the middle of nowhere with no beaches and a big lake next door Yup, panel mounted ....

4 Terminals

Copy on Continuity ... except, which one is the common terminal?

Reconnect battery with everything in place minus the iggy switch? What's the iggy switch? Ignition wires @ the solenoid?

 

[CaSHMeRe]

See the previous post, but we're on the same page. =) With the iggy switch not in the ckt, if the starter tries to engage as soon as you connect the battery, then there is a definite short somewhere upstream of the iggy switch.

ckt ?!?!?! i have a feeling these aren't vaping terms ... LOLOL ....

So, your suggestion ...

With battery disconnected, pull ignition cable off solenoid, then try and connect battery again to see if it fires or not? If it doesn't, that means there's a short between the ignition switch and where that same wire connects to the solenoid?

Finding a short like that may not end up being too difficult ...

I'm assuming -- Ignition Switch --> Coil --> Solenoid?

Could it be a bad resistor u think?

 

[Richie G]

ckt ?!?!?! i have a feeling these aren't vaping terms ... LOLOL ....

So, your suggestion ...

With battery disconnected, pull ignition cable off solenoid, then try and connect battery again to see if it fires or not? If it doesn't, that means there's a short between the ignition switch and where that same wire connects to the solenoid?

Finding a short like that may not end up being too difficult ...

I'm assuming -- Ignition Switch --> Coil --> Solenoid?

Could it be a bad resistor u think?

>

Sorry ckt = circuit (in electrical-speak). I've been an electrician (commercial) for the past 30 years -- I worked as an automechanic/automotive machinist when I was a puppy. <g>

What I'm saying is this --

Recreate the situation you did previously when the starter cranked when you connected the battery (and the iggy switch off). EXCEPT this time, do it with the iggy switch out of the circuit completely and the iggy wires safed off. This will tell us if the switch is the culprit or there is a short upstream of the switch.

Resistor? What is this a Prodigy? You're not sending 18volts through the 12 volt ckt, are you? <giggle>

 

[CaSHMeRe]

>

Sorry ckt = circuit (in electrical-speak). I've been an electrician (commercial) for the past 30 years -- I worked as an automechanic/automotive machinist when I was a puppy. <g>

What I'm saying is this --

Recreate the situation you did previously when the starter cranked when you connected the battery (and the iggy switch off). EXCEPT this time, do it with the iggy switch out of the circuit completely and the iggy wires safed off. This will tell us if the switch is the culprit or there is a short upstream of the switch.

Resistor? What is this a Prodigy? You're not sending 18volts through the 12 volt ckt, are you? <giggle>

Technical Lingoooo .... I'm liking it !!! LOL

LOL @ when you were a puppy .... LOL

So essentially, undo the 1 hour of labor of the ignition switch installation, then connect the battery to see if it still cranks?

Resistor = Resistor coming off the coil located on the block between dizzy and coil.

Can I simply pull the ignition cable off the solenoid (easier for me to get to) Wouldn't that essentially diagnose the same thing = Thus eliminating the switch since it will no longer be connected to the solenoid?

 

[Zofryer]

Check the fuse panel to make sure no dumbassery was done by a previous owner. I had something like this happen in an old dodge charger/daytona and it was because of some impatient wiring done behind a fuse box.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

Check the fuse panel to make sure no dumbassery was done by a previous owner. I had something like this happen in an old dodge charger/daytona and it was because of some impatient wiring done behind a fuse box.

good call Zo ... Except = We have a circuit breaker, not a fuse panel (with all the wires going into it ...)

 

[Richie G]

Can I simply pull the ignition cable off the solenoid (easier for me to get to) Wouldn't that essentially diagnose the same thing = Thus eliminating the switch since it will no longer be connected to the solenoid?

yes, but it's further downstream in the ckt.

Gonna send you a PM. I found a nice, easy to read diagram that will explain this WAY better than I am. =)

I'd rather do this by email as to not bore the hell out of potential and previous PS customers. LOL