I agree with you,I probably could do everything but an atty,if I have to. I'd just rather not
AP: FDA Sending Warning Letters
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Well, I must say that "Herbal" Vaporizers are legal. And yes the "Herbal" they are designed for is only legal in certain areas of the country, under certain conditions. I am reasonably sure if those vaperizors can be legally sold, our attys can skate by.
This is what I mean. If they ban e-cigs...imma get one.lol Just for the eff of it.
Herbal Vaporizer | Extreme Vaporizer | Herbal Vaporizers | Buy Vaporizers | Tobacco Vaporizers
Herbal Vaporizer | Extreme Vaporizer | Herbal Vaporizers | Buy Vaporizers | Tobacco Vaporizers
I do believe you are correct!!!
So the first thing I thot of was, ok I'll continue to make my own( juice). But, will those supplies such as; VG, and PG be taken off the shelves and soldbehind the counter; as instrumental in making the same e-juice?
Never. The only tough item to get would be nicotine. Vaping is BY FAR not the main reason drug stores/lab stores/farm stores carry VG/PG. By far not. They will always be available.
The only thing that would be harder to get would be the concentrated nicotine liquid. PG/VG are far too common/benign ingredients to be regulated due to their possible inclusion in e-liquid.
edit: LowThudd and I are on the same wavelength!
edit: LowThudd and I are on the same wavelength!
Yuppers. lol I get my VG at Whole foods. I doubt they'll be taking it off the shelves due to e-cig usage(which must be low).
worst case scenario, liquid nicotine becomes expensive/scarce/illegal to import - there are recipes on this forum and elsewhere on how to make your own nicotine liquid by soaking snus packets in pg/vg
hell, someone with half a green thumb and wasnt sleeping in high school chemistry could probably grown their own tobacco and extract the nicotine at home
they wont be able to stop the import of atomizers and batteries, in my amateur opinion, just like they don't stop the import of other 'illegal drug paraphernalia'
vaping isn't going anywhere, just as illegal drugs haven't gone anywhere despite billions of dollars and tens of thousands of deaths in the decades long war on drugs, it will just push it a bit underground, and unnecessarily so
hell, someone with half a green thumb and wasnt sleeping in high school chemistry could probably grown their own tobacco and extract the nicotine at home
they wont be able to stop the import of atomizers and batteries, in my amateur opinion, just like they don't stop the import of other 'illegal drug paraphernalia'
vaping isn't going anywhere, just as illegal drugs haven't gone anywhere despite billions of dollars and tens of thousands of deaths in the decades long war on drugs, it will just push it a bit underground, and unnecessarily so
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Eh worse case if the ban hammer happens I'll just buy one of those herbal vaporizers. I have used them with loose tobacco but I find it to be a bit too dry. Also it seems some of the new herbal vaporizers can be used with our juice. I hope it doesn't happen since I'll definitely look like a crack head by than.
I wish the FDA wasn't doing this though. If they do ban our equipment I might have to frequent more dubious websites for my equipment.
Also those herbal vaporizers are meant for tobacco which is still legal.
I can always buy loose tobacco for the herbalizers (is that a word?).
I'm still confused, is the FDA is regulating the e-cig hardware or the juice? Both? Our herbal vaporizer argument might work if they only regulate the juice.
Also somebody mentioned why all the suppliers aren't complying with the FDA. When they mean comply, they asking you to give them money so they can take their sweet time "testing" it.
And I agree that the FDA is Big Pharma in proxy, check how much the FDA gets from them.
But as so many people said, a ban will only allow the black market to flourish. We'll have moonshine e-juice when the gov't tries to stop us!
Blah all this stupidity is just stupid. I wish we had more transparency. I want the names of all the people pushing the ban and their constituents. I want the names of the researchers who are doing the research.
I want to do background checks on these people to know they aren't receiving kickbacks or favors because I don't trust them.
I wish the FDA wasn't doing this though. If they do ban our equipment I might have to frequent more dubious websites for my equipment.
Also those herbal vaporizers are meant for tobacco which is still legal.
I can always buy loose tobacco for the herbalizers (is that a word?).
I'm still confused, is the FDA is regulating the e-cig hardware or the juice? Both? Our herbal vaporizer argument might work if they only regulate the juice.
Also somebody mentioned why all the suppliers aren't complying with the FDA. When they mean comply, they asking you to give them money so they can take their sweet time "testing" it.
And I agree that the FDA is Big Pharma in proxy, check how much the FDA gets from them.
But as so many people said, a ban will only allow the black market to flourish. We'll have moonshine e-juice when the gov't tries to stop us!
Blah all this stupidity is just stupid. I wish we had more transparency. I want the names of all the people pushing the ban and their constituents. I want the names of the researchers who are doing the research.
I want to do background checks on these people to know they aren't receiving kickbacks or favors because I don't trust them.
Nope, they first showed up in head shops around 12 years ago. They are devinately not intended for tobacco. If you look on the site, they have "Herbal Smokes" with name similar to illicet "Herbal" names. You are def mistaken. They may be sold in some places as being for Tobacco Use only, but that is only due to local laws.
I thought it was determined that you don't really get much nicotine from doing that.
They consider the electronic cigarette to be a drug delivery device, intended to deiliver the drug nicotine.
And their intention is to remove both the electronic cigarette and the nicotine juice from the market.
Start with Josh Sharfstein and Senator Frank Lautenberg.
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I guess we're having semantics issues or maybe differences due to our location.
Here in NYC I've only seen paraphernalia sell for tobacco use. I wish we had the natural health stuff you guys have out there.
Been going to head shops for the last 10 years for hookah supplies (and in NYC we don't have that many head shops).
Also I tend to lump tobacco with all legal herbs to smoke, sorry about that. There's not too many legal herbs left here in NYC. What other ones are still around?
More people to stalk! I mean read up on! Ugh and Obama's name had to pop in my search. Sorry still having an on-going argument with my gf for voting for McCain over Obama even though we're both democrats.
But why hasn't any manufacturer pushed the 0 nic juices and let the juice manu's fight their end on just quality?
Or if juices do work on herbal vaporizers find one of those manufacturers to use their product. IF they're legal and for tobacco use which is what the juices are they already have a precedent. But than I thought those herbal vaporizers only survived because it didn't explode into the public like e-cigs.
Dunno, all we can do is vote and complain and live to see the next person in office.
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Linked on that site, related story, but far worse:
FDA Seeks to Stub Out E-Cigarette Makers' Unsubstantiated Health Claims
Just have to say, glad I'm in Korea... my fight here is just to get the taxes lowered so I can buy locally. They are 100% legal here, classified as a "mild cigarette".
FDA Seeks to Stub Out E-Cigarette Makers' Unsubstantiated Health Claims
Just have to say, glad I'm in Korea... my fight here is just to get the taxes lowered so I can buy locally. They are 100% legal here, classified as a "mild cigarette".
If you look at this site, there are quite a few. Iolite Vaporizer | Vaporizers Giant | Cheap Vaporizers Wholesale Prices | Volcano Air2 Vapir There are other forums out there that have lot's of info on legal herbs(some of which are becoming illegal like K2). I really don't want to redirect this thread, and it might be against ECF policy. But if you google it, you'll find quite a few.
Oh yea...The FDA sucks ...!
You can pull the link I don't want you to get in trouble. ECF seems super anti anything related to that but I agree with them. It'll just hurt our cause.
And amen to that.
More reading to do!
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That link I think I'm OK w/ I've posted it several times and no word on any infractions. lol I didn't want to include links to the less legal things like K2, or "Herbal" forums, but there are plenty out there w/ alot of knowledgable people. Many who are also on the e-cig band wagon. Maybe one day we will have to combine our efforts, but probably not on ECF.
The FDA DOUBLE SuX! And I hate their web site. It is tough to get a straight answer from the FDA website. Not very user friendly.
Well if I ever hit the lotto I'll try to go over there with my winnings and bribe them to dropping all their silliness.
I need to find something to add to my e-liquid to compensate for that missing feeling. I've been teeter tottering with cigs again. Blah. I've been weaning myself off which is what could be also causing it.
What's more insidious in the warning letter to Johnson Creek (posted here ) is that they are pulling comments from the web site where users are saying how e-cigs help them stay off regular cigarettes and using those as proof that JC is in violation: "The above statements demonstrate that the Johnson Creek Smoke Juice products marketed by your firm are intended both to affect the structure or function of the body and to mitigate, treat, or prevent disease."
But in reading the quoted statements, they are not hard and fast claims that "Using an e-cig is a smoking cessation device!"...they're softer comments that we've all posted somewhere: "thanks to e-cigs, my cravings are way down", "I have not had a tobacco cigarette for over 3 months, and I no longer have any desire to have one", etc.
If they are calling those comments "evidence" and they can be used against JC in court, then we're in trouble. Won't be too hard to dig up very similar comments users have made on many a vendor site...
But in reading the quoted statements, they are not hard and fast claims that "Using an e-cig is a smoking cessation device!"...they're softer comments that we've all posted somewhere: "thanks to e-cigs, my cravings are way down", "I have not had a tobacco cigarette for over 3 months, and I no longer have any desire to have one", etc.
If they are calling those comments "evidence" and they can be used against JC in court, then we're in trouble. Won't be too hard to dig up very similar comments users have made on many a vendor site...
Hahaha I love how the FDA won't allow anecdotal evidence but have no problem using it themselves. Guess they doing it the Wall Street way? Nit pick at everything till you find a way to make your money?
An easy way to mitigate this would be a disclaimer stating all comments are the experience of the user and is no way indicative of any health claims. All juice are meant to be used as a recreation device to be used where traditional smoking is not allowed.
I see a lot of health store use that with herbal supplements. We know they work from our long history with them but we can't say that because they aren't FDA approved. We (e-cigs) don't have that sort of grandfather clause.
Or something along those lines. I still say if you smoke nicotine juice, you should only vape where smoking is allowed but once I join the 0 nic bandwagon I'm going to vape anywhere without any feeling of remorse.
For all we know e-cigs might still be a psychosomatic pacifier but damn those it work for me (mostly) and a great hobby.
An easy way to mitigate this would be a disclaimer stating all comments are the experience of the user and is no way indicative of any health claims. All juice are meant to be used as a recreation device to be used where traditional smoking is not allowed.
I see a lot of health store use that with herbal supplements. We know they work from our long history with them but we can't say that because they aren't FDA approved. We (e-cigs) don't have that sort of grandfather clause.
Or something along those lines. I still say if you smoke nicotine juice, you should only vape where smoking is allowed but once I join the 0 nic bandwagon I'm going to vape anywhere without any feeling of remorse.
For all we know e-cigs might still be a psychosomatic pacifier but damn those it work for me (mostly) and a great hobby.
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