AP: FDA Sending Warning Letters

[youtubecommercial]

did you see this about Nicotine free e liquid designed to mimic the nicotine hit

Just wanted to show you in case you haven't seen it
I would love to have this .... And it in no way could be considered
A tobacco liquid product (Nicotine)


Fumo elettronico :: QHIT - Flavourart. La sartoria degli aromi


Qhit. A quantum of HIT.
We are glad to announce a new innovative product. Qhit is a nicotine free e liquid designed to mimic the nicotine hit.

Qhit has been realized using only plant extracts, with a long use in food manufacturing.

Whilst Qhit has been designed to be a ready to vape e liquid, during the test phases, we noticed different performances which can be summarized as follow:

1) Qhit performances depends on battery and atom quality. We have tested it at standard voltage 3,7-4,2 battery. Above this voltage its hit is very pronounced. In these cases, Qhit can be cut down at 30% or 50%

2) Longer the atom is in contact with Qhit, better its performances.

3) Qhit and certain flavors works in synergy, so a little experimentation is needed.

So we are happy to propose a new and safe to handle and store eliquid.

Qhit will be proposed in 4 exclusive flavors by SMOKING SMARTLY | Puff Cigarette - ACQUA (water), FUOCO (fire), ARIA (air), TERRA (earth), and as MIX and TAKE (including unflavored version) by FlavourArt.

Qhit is technically and legally considerable as "flavor" and its composition is as follow:

59% Propylene Glycole USP
40% Glycerol USP
1% Plant flavoring extracts.

Qhit. A quantum of HIT

 

[Poppa D]

From reading that article, it seems regulations are coming.

Being a consumer, I've taken all these regulations for granted. I buy anything and its contents, ingredients, nutrition facts, serving size, directions for use, and warnings are all there on the package, which has a proof of sealed contents. All of which is monitored by quality control personnel who's standards are written into the law. All of this we take for granted, and it goes unnoticed.
Recently a liquid vendor on this forum stated his volume of business has reached 6000 customers. Projecting the figures of that income from e-liquid the profit is quite substantial. Do the math, there is cash for following regulations, and having a standard of quality. Which would include paper work and paper trails.
Of course we should all be concerned that the bureaucrats involved are more concerned about the users welfare than gaining financial benefit, or political favor. Expecting these bureaucrats to ignore it as they did tobacco, is sticking your head in the sand, leaving your behind exposed.

 

[Seabrook]

Well I went to a very large head shop a few days ago to try and find something that would vaporize liquid. They had nothing. All the vaporizers they had were just for a solid herbs and tobacco. When I questioned the knowledgable clerk if one could be adapted, he said there was no way with anything they carried in the store. waiii, bummer of a wasted trip.

And BTW, what if we are already stocked up for a couple of years -- does that mean that we have to hide in our homes to vape? Will we be cited for vaping in our cars on the way to work or during smoke breaks at work? And if I leave my PV in my car and a cop walks by and sees it, does that mean they will tow and impound my car? How radical is this going to get? I don't see why the FDA are going to use all OUR (as the taxpayers) money to start a war they won't win in the long run.

 

[DC2]

Unless I'm reading all this wrong...

From reading that article, it seems regulations are coming.

These letters are about essentially banning electronic cigarettes by them by treating them as drug delivery devices.
And this is nothing new, and no different from what the FDA has already been trying to do.

What is really, really bad about this is that the FDA appears to be preparing to move beyond simply seizing shipments.
Without even waiting for the current court case to be settled, they are laying the groundwork for stepping up enforcement.

In a word, it appears they are getting ready to start going after people.

 

[Kilroy]

That's it exactly DC2. This is the next step, and before oral argument of the case.

 

[evilferret]

Well I guess its our turn soon to show the gov't prohibition doesn't work.

Edit: Also hope this doesn't turn into one of those its illegal by the Feds but okay by local gov'ts (aka they turn a blind eye).

 

[BuzzKill]

IF it does not delivery a " DRUG " it cannot be lumped into the same category ( just like the head shops do ! ) the Nicotine liquid on the other hand IS the " DRUG " which happens to be in regular cigarettes in this case they are shooting themselves in the foot , I.E. regular cigarettes would have to be classified as drug delivery devices ( this would take some court cases )

You will be able to buy " Herbal Vaporizers " in any case or " Aroma therapy devices or ??? "

the FDA will NOT ban tobacco , you can make your own nic juice just buy pipe tobacco etc. and process it , google it simple stuff .

They are going after the flavorings and other components ( Btw just get Pg/Vg and Lorans and walla you got flavors , Herbal Juice , ...... , ...... , Herbs with nic are KILLING US !!!!! STOP IT. the FDA will be talking to you soon if you dont.

 

[cozzicon]

I haven't read everything. But I would still contend that the sky is not falling.

Look at who they went after?

One example: Johnson Creek.

They provide juice to Blue and Blue has testimonials on their page that make claims about smoking cessation. Of course the FDA is going after that.

And from a personal standpoint (I'll get flamed hard for this) I'm *glad* they went after vendors who do those sorts of things.

I took the time to talk to a vendor I know who is fairly big an hour ago, and they confirmed that this did not effect them at all. Their comment was "If you claim, or supply someone who claims, unproven health benefits from e-cigs or market as a smoking cessation product you will get hit".

This is my understanding as it sits. I reserve the right to change my opinion. But at first glance this seems like a something that is a big nothing.

 

[Poppa D]

DC2,
I'm sorry, but it seems unlikely that our e-liquid is going to be ignored by our bureaucratic regulatory government which we tend to applaud most of the time, unless it negatively effects us directly, as this does. When regulations apply to us, in what ever manner they do, we tend to revolt. But normally we adjust and move on.
As far as the miracle of e-liquid is concerned, that is my feelings towards it, its a damn shame to mess with a good thing by stopping it completely. There are people who do know how to propose, implement, and attempt to get the results that "we vapers" could live with, literally. Business and politics go hand in hand.

 

[Jimbo52]

If you look at this site, there are quite a few. Iolite Vaporizer | Vaporizers Giant | Cheap Vaporizers Wholesale Prices | Volcano Air2 Vapir There are other forums out there that have lot's of info on legal herbs(some of which are becoming illegal like K2). I really don't want to redirect this thread, and it might be against ECF policy. But if you google it, you'll find quite a few.

Oh yea...The FDA sucks ...!

Check these out!

iolite and home grown tobacco!
YouTube - iolite and home grown tobacco!

Iolite Full Review
YouTube - Iolite Full Review

 

[evilferret]

I haven't read everything. But I would still contend that the sky is not falling.

Look at who they went after?

One example: Johnson Creek.

They provide juice to Blue and Blue has testimonials on their page that make claims about smoking cessation. Of course the FDA is going after that.

And from a personal standpoint (I'll get flamed hard for this) I'm *glad* they went after vendors who do those sorts of things.

I took the time to talk to a vendor I know who is fairly big an hour ago, and they confirmed that this did not effect them at all. Their comment was "If you claim, or supply someone who claims, unproven health benefits from e-cigs or market as a smoking cessation product you will get hit".

This is my understanding as it sits. I reserve the right to change my opinion. But at first glance this seems like a something that is a big nothing.

I somewhat agree with what you say but read this article.

The Effect of Snake Oil Security | threatpost

If all manufacturer's don't band together to make a strong enough force (like Tobacco/Pharma lobbies) we'll all lose out eventually.

I'm pretty sure they'll go after the ones without these claims once they win against the companies that do make those claims. The public will already be against us.

And if this miracle group forms they'll need to self monitor because one e-cig company can drag all of them down. The public's opinion is very finicky.

 

[cozzicon]

I somewhat agree with what you say but read this article.

The Effect of Snake Oil Security | threatpost

If all manufacturer's don't band together to make a strong enough force (like Tobacco/Pharma lobbies) we'll all lose out eventually.

I'm pretty sure they'll go after the ones without these claims once they win against the companies that do make those claims. The public will already be against us.

And if this miracle group forms they'll need to self monitor because one e-cig company can drag all of them down. The public's opinion is very finicky.

My reply is a direct quote from the article:

"But in a letter to the Electronic Cigarette Association, the FDA said the actions against the companies were not meant to be seen as a larger effort to ban e-cigs. The agency encouraged the industry group to work with the FDA to ensure the safety and effectiveness of the devices to help people quit smoking traditional cigarettes through usually expensive clinical trials.
"We are interested in finding out whether e-cigarettes can be proven safe and effective," FDA compliance lawyer Michael Levy said in a conference call."

 

[VPDownunder]

Well I could cut down to 0 nic if I had to and I make 99.9% of my own juice, the flavorings and PG/VG can't be banned. The ecigs themselves can be made if needed and as for atomizers just call them heating elements if they try to ban them which I can't see happening.
In my country it's already illegal to "sell" nic juice but your allowed to import it for personal use, I've got over a liter sitting here which arrived marked as "massage oil" rofl so companies are already thinking ahead

 

[Poppa D]

I agree, Cozzicon.

I read that too. Lets hope it is as encouraging as we would like it to be. If "they" are asking for cooperation, I say give it to them.

I'm not in "this" business, I'm a consumer. And those who are in this business, should make it their business.

 

[DC2]

DC2,
I'm sorry, but it seems unlikely that our e-liquid is going to be ignored by our bureaucratic regulatory government which we tend to applaud most of the time, unless it negatively effects us directly, as this does.

You're absolutely right, it is not being ignored in any way, shape, or form.
Right now the FDA is attempting to essentially ban electronic cigarettes by regulating them as drug delivery devices.

This is a fact, and the actions by the FDA are already in progress, the only thing stopping them is the ruling in the current court case.
That ruling is under appeal, and arguments on the appeal are scheduled to begin any day now.

But the last thing in the world anybody who knows what is going on wants is for these to be regulated as drug delivery devices.
That would mean they would be pulled of the market until someone does millions of dollars worth of testing and approval processes.
And that would mean years and years of clinical trials as well.

All of nothing more than the hope that they will eventually be approved.

But the FDA could and can regulate electronic cigarettes just fine by treating them as tobacco products.
They have the power and authority to do that right now.
They just don't want to.

The FDA wants them off the market.

 

[Daedalus]

Tobacco works in them though, I just don't know anyone who would choose to consume it in that manner.

 

[evilferret]

My reply is a direct quote from the article:

"But in a letter to the Electronic Cigarette Association, the FDA said the actions against the companies were not meant to be seen as a larger effort to ban e-cigs. The agency encouraged the industry group to work with the FDA to ensure the safety and effectiveness of the devices to help people quit smoking traditional cigarettes through usually expensive clinical trials.
"We are interested in finding out whether e-cigarettes can be proven safe and effective," FDA compliance lawyer Michael Levy said in a conference call."

Hahaha sorry I missed that. I'm reading up on the iolite.

Wondering if I should make that my next purchase, the pics of the guy vaping fresh tobacco and dripping e-liquid is intriguing me.

 

[DC2]

Lets hope it is as encouraging as we would like it to be.

I promise you, it's not encouraging at all.

Here is a thread that summarizes the court case...
SE, NJoy vs FDA -- court dockets / updates

And I haven't looked at this thread yet, but it looks like it might be helpful...
What is this Case all about, why do we need to watch it, and how to get up to speed on it

 

[Poppa D]

You're absolutely right, it is not being ignored in any way, shape, or form.
Right now the FDA is attempting to essentially ban electronic cigarettes by regulating them as drug delivery devices.

This is a fact, and the actions by the FDA are already in progress, the only thing stopping them is the ruling in the current court case.
That ruling is under appeal, and arguments on the appeal are scheduled to begin any day now.

But the last thing in the world anybody who knows what is going on wants is for these to be regulated as drug delivery devices.
That would mean they would be pulled of the market until someone does millions of dollars worth of testing and approval processes.
And that would mean years, and years of clinical trials as well.

The FDA could regulate electronic cigarettes just fine by treating them as tobacco products.
They have the power and authority to do that right now.
They just don't want to.

The FDA wants them off the market.

Well if its as simple as changing marketing strategy, and advertising this product as being used for herbal and tobacco use. Whats the big problem?
If embellishing the product/products creates a loop hole, do it.
Its not very easy to do with nicotene liquid though. Since its dangerous at high temperatures, it cant be used as an additive.

 

[lawnman3]

here is my look at the whole fda thing and please correct me if i am wrong the goverment/fda want to control the general public like they do know /they say when it is our chance to hunt deer /birds / hogs etc.. to control us and control the population of the general public..like they have in the past years they want us to die so a younger tax payer can take our place .. the plain truth is a painful thing . it is what it is ..

this is just my look on the fda. not to offend others here .. just my 2 cents worth


lawnman3 ...