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TimidNight

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I'm sorry for my previous post. I submitted way too much information. I wasn't looking for specific medical advice, simply personal experience. I thank those who responded, but I don't think a doctor is necessary. Moderator, if this thread is also inappropriate, I apologize. I would have started the thread in the Nicotine section of Health & Medical Issues; however, I am a new member, and I have limited access. Also, is it inappropriate to ask for personal experience for self medicating? That is a serious question. I'm not expecting replies from the general public nor hope to get any. I am only asking a moderator for an answer.
 

Spazmelda

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I searched for your previous post, but I couldn't post there as it had been closed.

IMO a doctor absolutely is necessary, and the quicker you can get in to see one the better. As a poster on the previous thread stated, the ADHD doesn't seem to be the only, or perhaps even the worst, issue that you are experiencing at the moment. As a mom myself, your post made my heart hurt for you. I don't think you 'deserve' to be feeling the way you do. I know that if one of my kids were feeling the pain that you seem to be feeling I would desperately want them and encourage them to seek help. Even if they had done things that disappointed me or others that they care about, I would expect that they would express regret and hope that they would learn from their experiences and ultimately become a better person because of it. Everyone has things they regret in life, but it does no good to dwell on past mistakes. I get the sense that you view seeking medical (perhaps even psychiatric help) as a failure on your part. This is not the case. You need to talk to someone who can help you work through these feelings.

I feel that it would be wrong and unethical for me to give any opinion on self medicating ADHD with nicotine, as your post suggests to me that any relief you *might* get from the nicotine would be a temporary band-aid that would allow you to ignore these other issues. Sorry to be so frank, but I felt I had to comment.
 

Clovery

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you should talk to a doctor. you could get amphetamines for ADHD if you're officially diagnosed and those would be WAY more effective than nicotine :p

Have you tried nic gum? Vaping seems like it's cheaper than smoking, but it gets pretty expensive if you like to continuously try new flavors and equipment. I don't think you're going to find many people who say "yeah, it's a great idea to go ahead and self-medicate." Especially with vaping being a "savior" for so many - the only thing that released the death grip of cigarettes - people don't want it to be branded as "the latest study drug abused by college students".

Talk to a doctor, go to the student health clinic. I wish you the best of luck.
 

X P3 Flight Engineer

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When you have 5 posts and after the ECF server refreshes (may take an hour) you will be able to go to your other thread and PM the Mod to ask your questions directly to them.

Please see a doctor. They have many more options for you.

Vaping is a "harm reduction" strategy used by people who have smoked for many years and have tried all other means to reduce smoking (to zero, preferably, but not necessarily) . The risks are unknown, we just assume that it has to be less harmful than smoking. It is certainly not recommended for anyone who may be able to quit using alternatives.

Take Care. (and that means taking care of yourself)
 

dgm76513

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I was prescribed Ritalin for ADHD at the age of eleven. While Ritalin did effectively turn me into an institution obeying zombie, it also, and I'll quote the doctors "brought out underlying Tourette's". I'm now thirty years old and still suffer from Tourette's disorder brought on by said Ritalin. My family shows absolutely no trace of Tourette's, and I find the doctors' reasons for whence it came, a cop-out as well as insulting.

I will not give medical recommendations for obvious reasons.

I will say that ADHD is a gift. Use it to your advantage. Our world as we know it is a duality, you have to take the good with the bad. You can find good in bad, and bad in good, just as you can use the good to give hope in times of bad, and the bad can be used to help you appreciate the good. And when you are at your lowest depressed mood, understand that there are people in very much worse conditions and situations than your own, who are struggling, and winning.

I would also like to add that the sole intention for electronic cigarettes is to be an alternative to smoking traditional tobacco cigarettes.

I will end with a quote from my father: "Don't give the enemy any more information than they need."
 

LauraBolyard

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Having been gifted/ADHD all of my life (actually diagnosed in 1969 before they really knew much about it) and battling depression on and off all of my life (I'm 48). I have struggled with self medicating for a very long time. I was on meds for ADHD until I was an adolescent and was taken off because in those days they believed that you 'outgrew it'. While I'll agree that the hyperactivity was somewhat outgrown, the inattentive part defiantly was not. I went right from Ritalin to cigarettes and from there, various other addictions. If they had realized them that medication could have continued to help me, my life may have been very different. I have recently given up all of the meds my doctor has tried over the years to help with mood, anxiety, depression, etc and gone straight to the root of the problem, treating the ADD, THANK GOD. The band aids don't work for long, getting to the root does. My depression and anxiety were largely due to the fact that I knew that I was not performing to ability, and becoming overwhelmed very easily just because of brain chemistry, TA DA!! Seriously, not worth taking the chance of getting addicted to things that are not targeting the root issues. I wish you the BEST! Laura
 

CommaHolly

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I'm so sorry you're going through this difficulty,,,,,,,my son has ADHD, always has, and got enormous benefit from ritalin. Today, he's 24, brilliant, and just graduated college FIRST in his degree program. That kid is going somewhere, and he's applying to MIT to get there :) I am enormously proud of him,,,,,,,,,,PLEASE see a doctor and have him or her help you with possible medications and treatments,,,,,,most people with ADHD are brilliant and look at things so differently that this really allows their brilliance to shine if they can properly treat the ADHD. Welcome to the board and I hope you find the help that works for you soon!!!!!
 

TimidNight

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The problem with talking to someone and getting anything prescription is that I'm covered under my mom's insurance. She would find out. That's why I was looking for something nonprescription. And of course, anything illegal was out of the question. Coffee kinda helped, but I hate the taste, and it puts me to sleep strangely. Only other thing I could find was nicotine.
 

HawkeyeFLA

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Having been gifted/ADHD all of my life (actually diagnosed in 1969 before they really knew much about it) and battling depression on and off all of my life (I'm 48). I have struggled with self medicating for a very long time. I was on meds for ADHD until I was an adolescent and was taken off because in those days they believed that you 'outgrew it'. While I'll agree that the hyperactivity was somewhat outgrown, the inattentive part defiantly was not. I went right from Ritalin to cigarettes and from there, various other addictions. If they had realized them that medication could have continued to help me, my life may have been very different. I have recently given up all of the meds my doctor has tried over the years to help with mood, anxiety, depression, etc and gone straight to the root of the problem, treating the ADD, THANK GOD. The band aids don't work for long, getting to the root does. My depression and anxiety were largely due to the fact that I knew that I was not performing to ability, and becoming overwhelmed very easily just because of brain chemistry, TA DA!! Seriously, not worth taking the chance of getting addicted to things that are not targeting the root issues. I wish you the BEST! Laura

I was diagnosed in 1988, at the age of 12. Did ritalin et al. As an adult, I still see the issues. But of course then the ADD kicks in and I get distracted from making an appt to go see a MD. Fun cycle ain't it?

Not always easy to tell someone with AD(H)D to "Go see a doctor." We often think about it, make some plans to do it, and then the follow up gets sidetracked.

Adult ADD is out there tho. Sometimes it gets dismissed because it's always considered a "youthful" disability. I believe OP said he's 19, so that could be part of it. At that age a lot of people say "Oh you should have out grown that by now." Well, we don't.

*steps off small soap box*
 

CommaHolly

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The problem with talking to someone and getting anything prescription is that I'm covered under my mom's insurance. She would find out. That's why I was looking for something nonprescription. And of course, anything illegal was out of the question. Coffee kinda helped, but I hate the taste, and it puts me to sleep strangely. Only other thing I could find was nicotine.

maybe I missed something,,,,,,but why wouldn't your mom want you to be the best you can be and support medication (or other means) to see that that happens?? I remember when my son was first medicated,,,,,,it was SUCH a difference,,,,,,he was able to make friends, pay attention,,,,,,,,,he stopped being disciplined so much,,,,,his self esteem went up,,,,,,,,when people automatically poo poo medication it always makes me sad,,,,,it helped my son SO MUCH,,,,,,no he wasn't an automated robot,,,,,,he was NICK,,,,,,,,,,BUT able to pay attention, play well with others, do his school work, stay caught up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it wasn't perfect, but it HELPED SO MUCH. The first day he was PRAISED in school, he came home so proud,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and I think I cried for half an hour.
 

HawkeyeFLA

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The problem with talking to someone and getting anything prescription is that I'm covered under my mom's insurance. She would find out. That's why I was looking for something nonprescription. And of course, anything illegal was out of the question. Coffee kinda helped, but I hate the taste, and it puts me to sleep strangely. Only other thing I could find was nicotine.

Being as you're an adult, I'm pretty sure that while she would know you saw a doctor, she can't actually find out what you saw him/her for. Are you in college yet? If so, check around on campus for some support at least.
 

Clovery

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it's against the law (HIPAA) for healthcare to reveal any treatment information to anyone, including parents. BUT usually when you see a doctor, the insurance company sends you a letter saying what they paid and what for, and that would go to the policy holder aka OP's mom.

OP I take adderall for ADHD and it works wonders. I was on it when I was a teen/young adult, stopped it for some years, fell into a deep depression, and finally got an appt and worked it out with a psychiatrist and I'm on it again and doing great. If you do decide to see a doc, make sure to see one who treats adult/adolescent ADHD. Some docs will just write everything off as depression and get you on Zoloft or whatever. As someone who has self-medicated for years, I can tell you that you're better off going with a doctor right off the bat. You'll just end up with "band-aids" as someone else put it. If you're determined to try nicotine, then go to the drug store and pick up some 2 mg gum. Vaping is better than smoking, but breathing pure air is best. There's no need for you to possibly cause yourself harm since there are so many choices out there.
 

John D in CT

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Night -

You have nothing to apologize for. Your first post was brave, honest, and simply expressed your feelings, which we all have the right to do.

I wish I could do a "Vulcan mind meld" with you so you could realize that you don't have to feel the way you do. I am reasonably sure that "God" does not hate you. Sometimes people die, and I am so sorry that one of them was your father. And you are not "a ....... child". That is not your label. That is not who and what you are. If in fact you were born out of wedlock, that need mean absolutely nothing as far as your own feelings of self worth are concerned. Did you check the "I'd like to be born out of wedlock" box before you were born? No? I didn't think so.

No one "deserves" to be depressed. Not you, not anyone. I'd like you to talk to someone really, really smart about your situation. You might very well benefit from one or more of the remarkable medications available today that can help normalize your brain chemistry, if it is in fact "out of balance". There is no shame in taking insulin if you're diabetic, no shame in taking phenobarbitol if you're epileptic, and no shame in using an anti-depressant if you suffer from depression that results from a chemical imbalance.

I also have reason to believe that there might be a connection between depression and nicotine consumption, but I cannot and will not recommend that you start taking it. That said, the "right" doctor might just tell you that there is indeed a connection, and that you might be well-served by vaping. Nicotine is known to improve memory and mood. Google "nicotine memory seniors" and see page after page of reliable information about how many doctors are currently prescribing the nicotine patch for memory improvement. I used to be adamantly opposed to recommending vaping to non-smokers, but after seeing what nicotine can do for mood, memory, and alertness, especially when ingested absent the carbon monoxide and many, many other harmful chemicals in tobacco smoke, I am rethinking that position. Similarly, since I do not see a large difference in harm level between caffeine and nicotine, I would not be opposed to seeing a non-coffee drinker decide to start drinking coffee, which also has scientifically proven benefits.

Depression runs in my family, and I have anecdotal evidence that nicotine could play a role in reducing it. I believe that the science to back that up either currently exists or will soon exist. Since starting to vape 6 months ago my outlook on life has never been better, or my mind sharper and more focused. I now see solutions and courses of actions more, and "insurmountable problems" less.

Let me be clear and repeat that I am not advocating that you immediately start using nicotine. What I am begging you to do is see someone immediately who can tell you point blank that you are being far too hard on yourself, and that things can be much, much better for you than they are now. I see a time in the very near future where you have forgiven yourself, think well of yourself, and seek people out and have them seeking you out for all the good things that you clearly have to offer. It's obvious that you're an intelligent, sweet, sensitive and caring young woman who just needs a few nudges in the right direction. You're like a very powerful ship that's just drifted a few degrees off course. That does not make you a bad ship. We all drift off course, and we can all get back on course. Sometimes a ship has to take on a pilot to navigate it through some tricky waters, like the ones you're in right now. Please go find yourself a pilot - tomorrow.

The past does not equal the future. Do not dwell in the past. There is only the present, and the future. Decide to forgive yourself for whatever it is you now think makes you unworthy of love and friendship, which you are not. Realize that at 19 years of age - just about 1/3 of mine - you have so much ahead of you it is absolutely mind-boggling. Your life has not even begun yet; the first thirty years hardly even count.

Please realize the tremendous power that you, or anyone has to let go of the past, and change for the better the one person in the world that you can have almost complete control over if you decide to do it - YOU.

PM me if you'd like someone to talk to; I like to help people.

***

Mods and/or fellow members; please read my post carefully before you find too much fault with it. I am strongly advocating that this fine young woman do absolutely nothing without the guidance of health care professionals.
 
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lilith79

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The problem with talking to someone and getting anything prescription is that I'm covered under my mom's insurance. She would find out. That's why I was looking for something nonprescription. And of course, anything illegal was out of the question. Coffee kinda helped, but I hate the taste, and it puts me to sleep strangely. Only other thing I could find was nicotine.
What are you worried about with that? Would she look down on you for it? I would hope not. Besides, EOBs from the insurance company don't disclose why you were there. It could be the flu, it could be a broken toe, all it would say is something like John Doe visited Dr. Smith on 6/23/12. Billed amount $115. Negotiated amount $85. Paid $70. Copay $15.
I've never seen an EOB on medication, and ADHD meds often are not filled through the mail because they are a controlled substance. Please, seek help.
 

Clovery

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the issue that could possibly arise is that many/most family docs/GPs won't prescribe psychotropic meds so she'll likely be referred to a psychiatrist. But OP, if your mom asks "Why are you seeing a psychiatrist? what meds are you getting at the pharmacy?" then you should just stand tall and say "I have ADHD and this helps me". If your mom is the least bit of a reasonable person, she will not drop you from her insurance policy. She might disagree, give you a hard time, but she can't stop you from getting treatment unless she drops your health insurance.
 

John D in CT

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The problem with talking to someone and getting anything prescription is that I'm covered under my mom's insurance. She would find out. That's why I was looking for something nonprescription. And of course, anything illegal was out of the question. Coffee kinda helped, but I hate the taste, and it puts me to sleep strangely. Only other thing I could find was nicotine.

I missed this. Can you please share with us your thoughts on why you think it is that your Mom would disapprove of your seeking the assistance of a medical professional who could prescribe for you, if deemed necessary, one or more of the remarkable medications that science currently has to offer? If she would indeed object to that, I would see that as a problem that needs to be addressed.

Another thought; you are no longer a minor, and do not need your mother's permission to do ANYTHING. Additionally, I am not at all sure it would be legal for your mother to drop you from her insurance policy under the recently changed health care laws.
 
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John D in CT

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"Depression runs in my family, and I have anecdotal evidence that nicotine could play a role in reducing it. I believe that the science to back that up either currently exists or will soon exist. Since starting to vape 6 months ago my outlook on life has never been better, or my mind sharper and more focused. I now see solutions and courses of actions more, and "insurmountable problems" less".

*****

Googling "nicotine depression":


"Nicotine Lessens Symptoms of Depression in Nonsmokers"

Nicotine Lessens Symptoms of Depression in Nonsmokers - DukeHealth.org

Published: Sept. 11, 2006
Updated: Sept. 12, 2006


By Duke Medicine News and Communications

DURHAM, N.C. -- Nicotine may improve the symptoms of depression in people who do not smoke, Duke University Medical Center scientists have discovered.

The finding does not mean that people with depression should smoke or even start using a nicotine patch, the researchers caution. They say that smoking remains the No. 1 preventable cause of death and disability in the United States, and that the addictive hazards of tobacco far outweigh the potential benefits of nicotine in depression. [So vape instead?]

But the finding suggests that it may be possible to manipulate nicotine's effects to safely reap its potential medical benefits, according to the researchers. As an example of the drug's potential, they said, pharmaceutical companies already are developing compounds for treating other brain disorders by mimicking the beneficial properties of nicotine while avoiding its addictive nature. [Nicotine absent the MAOI's in cigarette smoke is less addictive.]

"The hope is that our research on nicotine will spur the development of new treatments for depression, which is a huge public health problem," said lead study investigator Joseph McClernon, Ph.D., an assistant research professor of medical psychiatry and researcher at the Duke Center for Nicotine and Smoking Cessation Research.

"Our study also provides evidence that smokers may indeed smoke, in part, to improve their mood -- a notion that has been quite controversial in the field," he said.

The team's findings are scheduled to appear the week of Sept. 11, 2006, in the online edition of the journal Psychopharmacology and will be published in print in November.

The research was supported by the National Alliance for Research on Schizophrenia and Depression.

Scientists have established that people prone to depression are twice as likely to be smokers, and are less likely to succeed in quitting smoking after taking up the habit, according to McClernon. The Duke study explored the theories behind the higher smoking rates among people experiencing depression.

"Smokers may be more prone to depression than nonsmokers," said Edward Levin, Ph.D., a professor of biological psychiatry and researcher at the Duke center, who was senior investigator in the current study. "Or, people with depression may be self-medicating by smoking, albeit in a deadly way." [Unless they vape - duh.]

In the study, the researchers recruited 11 people who did not smoke but who were experiencing symptoms of depression. Participants were randomly assigned to wear either a nicotine patch or a placebo patch that did not contain any nicotine. The researchers used a standardized method, a 20-item questionaire called the Center for Epidemiological Studies Depression scale, to measure depression symptoms among the study participants.

"Despite the small number of participants, this is the largest study of its kind," McClernon said.

The team found that participants who wore the nicotine patch for at least eight days experienced a significant decline in their depression-assessment rating scores. McClernon said this finding indicates that the drug led to an improvement in depression symptoms.

As a possible explanation for how nicotine exerts its beneficial effect, McClernon said: "The same areas of the brain that are stimulated by nicotine appear to be involved in the regulation of mood."

Nicotine stimulates the release of specific neurotransmitters, including serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, which carry messages between nerves cells. Depression has been linked to chemical imbalances of these neurotransmitters, McClernon said.

Looking ahead to possible therapeutic uses of nicotine for treating depression, the researchers say the nicotine molecule can be manipulated to remove its addictive effect while maintaining its ability to increase levels of the various brain chemicals that can alter mood. Currently, pharmaceutical companies are developing nicotinelike drugs that target chemical imbalances in the brain that are thought to cause anxiety, schizophrenia, =====> attention deficient hyperactivity disorder <======, Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease.

The study also suggests that people prone to depression may need extra help in order to quit smoking, such as nicotine replacement therapy, the scientists said.

Despite the positive effects of nicotine discovered in their study, the researchers emphasize that it is not currently appropriate for treatment of any medical disorder outside of nicotine dependence. [Why the hell not?]

"I certainly recommend that people don't smoke," Levin said. "If you do smoke, quit." [And vape instead, so you don't jump off a bridge].

Other researchers participating in the study included F. Berry Hiott, Eric C. Westman and Jed E. Rose.


Nicotine Lessens Symptoms of Depression in Nonsmokers - DukeHealth.org
 
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