Are All Watts the same when vaping

[BJ43]

32awg kanthal:

7 to 8 wraps 2.5 ohms at 4.5v 1.7amps 8watts Huge vaper, great flavor, fantastic TH
4 to 5 wraps 1.7 ohms at 3.7v 2.1amps 8watts Good vaper, occasional burnt flavor, very hot TH

Did this with 5 flavors 80vg/20pg

If the same watts equalize everything as the Darwin people pretend why such a difference?

 

[Deadite]

The 7-8 wraps has more surface area to vaporize your juice, so you'll get more vapor. Also you have more surface area to heat up so you won't burn the juice as fast, so you get better flavor.

But watts is watts, just like a pound of feathers is the same as a pound of dirt.

 

[Eddie.Willers]

+1 to Deadite

Watts is simply a measure of energy conversion. How that electrical energy is converted to heat is what is important here.

When we think about vaporizing the liquid, the heated surface area plays a very important part as does the speed of the heating. I had long suspected that a longer, slower burn on the coil would give better vapor and flavor - your numbers and observations seem to prove this. Higher resistance (and higher voltage) on a larger coil gives better results.

 

[BJ43]

+1 to Deadite

Watts is simply a measure of energy conversion. How that electrical energy is converted to heat is what is important here.

When we think about vaporizing the liquid, the heated surface area plays a very important part as does the speed of the heating. I had long suspected that a longer, slower burn on the coil would give better vapor and flavor - your numbers and observations seem to prove this. Higher resistance (and higher voltage) on a larger coil gives better results.

I agree with you, I see so many people here raving about their 1.1 to 1.5 ohm 3 to 4 wrap coils and every time I tried one it was terrible compared to 7 or 8 wraps. Even bringing the voltage down they are still harsh from lack of surface area. None of my juices even come close to their true flavor with 3 or 4 wraps.

 

[DaveP]

Yep, watts is watts is watts. That said, efficiency of design is the reason there are wide variations in the flavor and vapor between different styles of atomizers. Mating the coil to the juice in the bowl (or other medium) is critical to getting good vapes. I can see how coil style is critical to efficient vaping.

 

[jhonutz]

to change this watt`s on out you have two way. Or use lower resistance or increase voltage.

 

[srolesen]

hmm, in principle yes all watts are the same, in pratice they might not be totally the same due to the allmost constant resistance/C of nichrome wire.
so if some nichrome wire is not cooled with the same ammount of liquid evaporation that other parts of the nichrome wire is, the nichrome wire will heat drastically and produce burned flavour.

when you use more wraps at increased voltage the wattage/cm nichrome wire goes down, while the total wattage of atomizer remains constant, that means the size of atomizer is harder to keep down, but it allso means that individual parts of nichrome wire is less overheated if insuffeciently cooled, simply because the cooling_needed/cm nichrome wire is smaller.

so:

1. uncooled nichrome wire = burned flavour
2. highvoltage vaping -> less uncooled nichrome wire (generally)
3. bigger atomizer = less evaporated ejuice/watt_battery

nichrome atomizer = finicky solution by law of physics

hope this helps

 

[slimest]

[*]highvoltage vaping -> less uncooled nichrome wire (generally)

Important observation! If we vape on high voltage - less current - less heating of the same length of the loose ends. +1

 

[jhonutz]

so:

1. uncooled nichrome wire = burned flavour
2. highvoltage vaping -> less uncooled nichrome wire (generally)
3. bigger atomizer = less evaporated ejuice/watt_battery

nichrome atomizer = finicky solution by law of physics

hope this helps

for this it`s much better to use kanthal.

 

[Antoly]

I think what really matters is not just watts but watts per square millimeter of coil's surface. The less this surface is the less liquid is in contact with coil and vice versa. If too small the coil overheats and you have burnt taste or even burnt out coil. If too big the coil underheats and can not vaporize the liquid properly. Imagine the same wattage, say 8 watts, evenly distributed over the surface of a big pan. Will it be able to heat the pan even slightly? No.

 

[srolesen]

for this it`s much better to use kanthal.

yeah, but for the problem of heatwire overheating because it is not cooled, nichrome wire and kanthal has the same basic caveat in that it's temperature needs to increase many hundred's of degrees just to double it's resistance.
1 obvious solution would be thinner nichrome wire with longer length at higher voltage, and for this kanthal better because it is stronger
other solution would be to use other heating material like ceramics because it has opposite properties of nichrome wire in that it's resistance/C is exponential with increase in temperature, but it does not seem people are interested in trying this again as 1 test allready failed

 

[srolesen]

1 test does not equal failure, it usually means bad design.

And I thought scubabatdan and some people had started another ceramic atty project that got side tracked by the g-tank co-op. Or did that fail, I lost the thread a while ago, it was before I registered here..........

haha i dont know what happend, or who try to start other tests, but i do know i try and look for other try at making ceramic atomizer and cant find any

 

[BJ43]

If I were more electronically capable I would try to design a PV with a micro adjustable thermostat. Temperature control of the coil, keeping it at the right temperature to vape the juice but not burn it. It would be more efficient than VV or VW.

 

[jhonutz]

i don`t agree with that. only problem is user..want to have hard sensation but instead take some burned taste...VV it`s good but you may use correctly.I say in other posts..must find the "sweet spot" wright voltage at a fixed resistance.

 

[JO GSA]

So how do we bottom feeders overcome the surface are problem with just attys and cartos ???

 

[zoiDman]

I think what really matters is not just watts but watts per square millimeter of coil's surface. The less this surface is the less liquid is in contact with coil and vice versa. If too small the coil overheats and you have burnt taste or even burnt out coil. If too big the coil underheats and can not vaporize the liquid properly. Imagine the same wattage, say 8 watts, evenly distributed over the surface of a big pan. Will it be able to heat the pan even slightly? No.

The Concept of Thermal Density is Very commonly overlooked.

A wooden match used to light an analog burns at the same Temperature as a Raging Bonfire when your camping.

You can hold a wooden match 1 inch from your hand and you might not even feel it. But put your hand 1 inch from a Bonfire and I think we all know what is going to happen.

Watts are Not the Only thing that determines what type of hit a users gets from a Atomizer Wire/Wick setup.

 

[srolesen]

If I were more electronically capable I would try to design a PV with a micro adjustable thermostat. Temperature control of the coil, keeping it at the right temperature to vape the juice but not burn it. It would be more efficient than VV or VW.

why use thermostat instead of ceramic heatingelement ?

i don`t agree with that. only problem is user..want to have hard sensation but instead take some burned taste...VV it`s good but you may use correctly.I say in other posts..must find the "sweet spot" wright voltage at a fixed resistance.

but coil is very very small, and if some of it is not in contact with liquid it will overheat no matter what voltage you use.

 

[asdaq]

I very much agree about surface area and the importance of airflow cooling, and as for the thermostat, I am not so sure. How about a PTC thermistor in line with the coil, such that as temperature rises, so does the coil's resistance, cooling the coil?

 

[srolesen]

I very much agree about surface area and the importance of airflow cooling, and as for the thermostat, I am not so sure. How about a PTC thermistor in line with the coil, such that as temperature rises, so does the coil's resistance, cooling the coil?

i totally agree about the thermal control idea, but why not just use ptc ceramic as heating element and thereby have selfregulating heat element ?

 

[BJ43]

I very much agree about surface area and the importance of airflow cooling, and as for the thermostat, I am not so sure. How about a PTC thermistor in line with the coil, such that as temperature rises, so does the coil's resistance, cooling the coil?

The temp setting should be ajustable for different blends of juice that have different vaper points.