I'm new to both these forums and the entire PV scene. In fact, I've not started vaping yet. I'm taking my time and trying to fully research everything before taking the plunge (which is definitely going to happen within the next week or two). Part of that research has involved visiting close to 50 different supplier sites. I visited every link in the "ECF Approved Suppliers" section as well as many others from search engines and other sources.
One thing that really stands out is the extreme margin of prices different sites offer. I understand that people need to make a living and everyone has the right to charge what they see fit, but some prices just seem way over the top.
Note: I know this post may upset some suppliers, but this section is about new users. As such, caveat emptor doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't all exchange information so we are better informed.
From what I've read, there are less than 5 major companies in China that manufacture most of the kits, parts, etc. that are being sold through most sites. Some sites list "made in the U.S.A." or other locations, but some of these sites are simply doing light assembly, not actually manufacturing or milling the parts. To my knowledge, there isn't a single company in the United States that actually manufactures e-cigs from scratch. This may change as e-cigs evolve, but that doesn't effect the current market.
Most juice is made up of liquid nicotine, PG/VG, and flavors. These may be mixed all over the world. China exports a lot of pre-mixed juice and cartridges, but many companies may be producing juice and carts on their own. Liquid nicotine is the trickiest of the three components. It isn't easy to get and even if you could, it's not wise to mess with it. It's a poison that is too easy to screw up with. Trust me on this. If you're thinking of trying to get it and work with it then please don't. It's a nightmare you don't want to deal with. One or two drops on your skin could kill you not to mention that mixing it responsibly is difficult. However, Propylene Glycol (PG) is relatively safe and easy to obtain. So is flavoring.
Since most of the hardware on the market is coming from China, then the pricing should be fairly uniform, but this isn't the case. Some sites are charging (what I consider to be) outrageous prices. This isn't aimed at people that mill and produce their own hardware. I visited one site from the midwest (USA) where the owner puts blood, sweat, and tears into his homemade hardware and will even apply custom artwork "AND" his pricing is still reasonable, versus someone that is just acting as a weigh station between your house and China. Yes, I know, I'm probably already upsetting some vendors. That isn't the purpose of this post.
I'm going to post a few observations that I've made regarding pricing. The point is not to get under the suppliers skin or rub some people the wrong way. It's simply to pass on to the users. I won't mention specific sites.
E-Cigarette Kits:
From researching approximately 50 sites, I've come to the conclusion that the average kit should cost between $25 to $75 dollars. While there are many different models out there and kits come with different packaging options, the range I set is still valid (imho). I've seen the same exact kit sell for $75 on one site and $25 on another. I've checked out all variations (SD, Pipes, Cigars, etc.) and still believe all should be $25-$75. If you're being charged more than $75 or much higher, then that site better be selling you the barn too.
Individual Parts (Accessories):
This area isn't as easy to narrow, and I must repeat that this is all just my opinion, so take with a grain of salt. If I list a price, then a couple of dollars more or less still seems fair.
Batteries: Standard batteries for models 510, 801, 901, etc. should sell for approximately $10. However, if you're being charged close to $20, then something isn't right. Even "mega" batteries should only be around $15 (if that).
Atomizers: Standard atomizers for models 510, 801, 901, etc. should sell for approximately $5 to $10. Again, if you're being charged $15, or higher, then it seems too steep.
Cartomizers: Cartomizers for the KR808 models should be between $5 and $10 dollars for 5 blanks or flavored.
Cartridges: For 510, 801, 901, etc. should sell for $2 to $5 for 10 blank cartridges; $2 to $5 for 5 filled cartridges.
E-Juice: This is the hardest one to nail down. From my research, I think a fair price for a 30ml bottle of juice is between $9 and $15. The reason this is hard to judge is because of the vast differences between offerings. The most expensive part of juice is the nicotine extract. If you're buying juice that has a very low nicotine level, then you're essentially buying Propylene Glycol and flavoring which is very cheap. I know of one site that sells 1 gallon of E-Cig Propylene Glycol (99.9% Food Grade Propylene Glycol USP) for only $42. That's enough to fill 126 30ml bottles at a cost of 33 cents per bottle. Many flavor additives are much cheaper. As I said, it's the actual nicotine that drives the price up. Still, I feel $9-$15 for 30ml is fair for flavored juice.
Misc Accessories:
Cases (non-PCC): A case that holds 1 or 2 batteries and a couple of cartridges should be around $5.
Cases (PCC): A case that recharges your batteries a few times while away from a power source should be between $15 and $25 depending on the e-cig model you're using. Less for the KR808, more for the 510.
USB Passthrough (PT): This is a device that allows you to power your e-cig directly from your computer (negating the need for a battery) should be between $10 and $15 regardless of e-cig model.
Other Tools: Syringes for mixing and empty bottles - under $3, adapters - under $5, power cables/auto cig/USB - under $10.
...
If you're paying well above any of the variances I listed above, then you may want to research more sites to see if you're getting a fair deal. If anyone doubts the prices I listed, then I can point them to a few sites that demonstrate that my pricing ranges are valid. However, I don't want to make this a post that advertises a specific site. I'm just trying to get people to realize that there may be cheaper alternatives.
There will come a day when e-cigarettes rival regular tobacco products and may even surpass them. When that happens, you'll see prices plummet. Personally, I think this will be the year we see them really take off. Whenever I see agencies like the FDA scrambling, I know that big businesses (tobacco industry, preventative companies, etc.) are starting to shake in their boots. I don't think they will be able to break the forward momentum already in motion. It might get rocky; it might not. However, I firmly believe that e-cigs are here to stay.
Unfortunately, the e-cig market is a little bit "wild west" at the moment. That's why you'll see prices all over the board. The purpose of this post is to help new people avoid pricing that is clearly aimed at the uninformed.
Happy vaping!
*****Added per user request*****
It is none of my business what people want to charge for their products. Just because a site may list a kit or item at a higher price than the range I listed doesn't mean they are crooked or underhanded. There are many factors that determine pricing for some sites.
For example, some sites that list kits close to the $25 mark are shipping from China either directly or bouncing off a weigh station. The shipping costs for these companies is going to be much higher which in turn is going to effect the end price.
Also, some companies have to charge higher prices because their operating costs are much higher (e.g., advertising, larger stockpiles, their own mixing labs, etc..)
Because of all of the above mentioned, I AM NOT calling other people crooks. However, I have visited some sites that I honestly feel do charge inflated prices because they are hoping to hook an uninformed stooge. Let's be honest, it happens.
Because of that, please read the OP with an open mind.
One thing that really stands out is the extreme margin of prices different sites offer. I understand that people need to make a living and everyone has the right to charge what they see fit, but some prices just seem way over the top.
Note: I know this post may upset some suppliers, but this section is about new users. As such, caveat emptor doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't all exchange information so we are better informed.
From what I've read, there are less than 5 major companies in China that manufacture most of the kits, parts, etc. that are being sold through most sites. Some sites list "made in the U.S.A." or other locations, but some of these sites are simply doing light assembly, not actually manufacturing or milling the parts. To my knowledge, there isn't a single company in the United States that actually manufactures e-cigs from scratch. This may change as e-cigs evolve, but that doesn't effect the current market.
Most juice is made up of liquid nicotine, PG/VG, and flavors. These may be mixed all over the world. China exports a lot of pre-mixed juice and cartridges, but many companies may be producing juice and carts on their own. Liquid nicotine is the trickiest of the three components. It isn't easy to get and even if you could, it's not wise to mess with it. It's a poison that is too easy to screw up with. Trust me on this. If you're thinking of trying to get it and work with it then please don't. It's a nightmare you don't want to deal with. One or two drops on your skin could kill you not to mention that mixing it responsibly is difficult. However, Propylene Glycol (PG) is relatively safe and easy to obtain. So is flavoring.
Since most of the hardware on the market is coming from China, then the pricing should be fairly uniform, but this isn't the case. Some sites are charging (what I consider to be) outrageous prices. This isn't aimed at people that mill and produce their own hardware. I visited one site from the midwest (USA) where the owner puts blood, sweat, and tears into his homemade hardware and will even apply custom artwork "AND" his pricing is still reasonable, versus someone that is just acting as a weigh station between your house and China. Yes, I know, I'm probably already upsetting some vendors. That isn't the purpose of this post.
I'm going to post a few observations that I've made regarding pricing. The point is not to get under the suppliers skin or rub some people the wrong way. It's simply to pass on to the users. I won't mention specific sites.
E-Cigarette Kits:
From researching approximately 50 sites, I've come to the conclusion that the average kit should cost between $25 to $75 dollars. While there are many different models out there and kits come with different packaging options, the range I set is still valid (imho). I've seen the same exact kit sell for $75 on one site and $25 on another. I've checked out all variations (SD, Pipes, Cigars, etc.) and still believe all should be $25-$75. If you're being charged more than $75 or much higher, then that site better be selling you the barn too.
Individual Parts (Accessories):
This area isn't as easy to narrow, and I must repeat that this is all just my opinion, so take with a grain of salt. If I list a price, then a couple of dollars more or less still seems fair.
Batteries: Standard batteries for models 510, 801, 901, etc. should sell for approximately $10. However, if you're being charged close to $20, then something isn't right. Even "mega" batteries should only be around $15 (if that).
Atomizers: Standard atomizers for models 510, 801, 901, etc. should sell for approximately $5 to $10. Again, if you're being charged $15, or higher, then it seems too steep.
Cartomizers: Cartomizers for the KR808 models should be between $5 and $10 dollars for 5 blanks or flavored.
Cartridges: For 510, 801, 901, etc. should sell for $2 to $5 for 10 blank cartridges; $2 to $5 for 5 filled cartridges.
E-Juice: This is the hardest one to nail down. From my research, I think a fair price for a 30ml bottle of juice is between $9 and $15. The reason this is hard to judge is because of the vast differences between offerings. The most expensive part of juice is the nicotine extract. If you're buying juice that has a very low nicotine level, then you're essentially buying Propylene Glycol and flavoring which is very cheap. I know of one site that sells 1 gallon of E-Cig Propylene Glycol (99.9% Food Grade Propylene Glycol USP) for only $42. That's enough to fill 126 30ml bottles at a cost of 33 cents per bottle. Many flavor additives are much cheaper. As I said, it's the actual nicotine that drives the price up. Still, I feel $9-$15 for 30ml is fair for flavored juice.
Misc Accessories:
Cases (non-PCC): A case that holds 1 or 2 batteries and a couple of cartridges should be around $5.
Cases (PCC): A case that recharges your batteries a few times while away from a power source should be between $15 and $25 depending on the e-cig model you're using. Less for the KR808, more for the 510.
USB Passthrough (PT): This is a device that allows you to power your e-cig directly from your computer (negating the need for a battery) should be between $10 and $15 regardless of e-cig model.
Other Tools: Syringes for mixing and empty bottles - under $3, adapters - under $5, power cables/auto cig/USB - under $10.
...
If you're paying well above any of the variances I listed above, then you may want to research more sites to see if you're getting a fair deal. If anyone doubts the prices I listed, then I can point them to a few sites that demonstrate that my pricing ranges are valid. However, I don't want to make this a post that advertises a specific site. I'm just trying to get people to realize that there may be cheaper alternatives.
There will come a day when e-cigarettes rival regular tobacco products and may even surpass them. When that happens, you'll see prices plummet. Personally, I think this will be the year we see them really take off. Whenever I see agencies like the FDA scrambling, I know that big businesses (tobacco industry, preventative companies, etc.) are starting to shake in their boots. I don't think they will be able to break the forward momentum already in motion. It might get rocky; it might not. However, I firmly believe that e-cigs are here to stay.
Unfortunately, the e-cig market is a little bit "wild west" at the moment. That's why you'll see prices all over the board. The purpose of this post is to help new people avoid pricing that is clearly aimed at the uninformed.
Happy vaping!
*****Added per user request*****
It is none of my business what people want to charge for their products. Just because a site may list a kit or item at a higher price than the range I listed doesn't mean they are crooked or underhanded. There are many factors that determine pricing for some sites.
For example, some sites that list kits close to the $25 mark are shipping from China either directly or bouncing off a weigh station. The shipping costs for these companies is going to be much higher which in turn is going to effect the end price.
Also, some companies have to charge higher prices because their operating costs are much higher (e.g., advertising, larger stockpiles, their own mixing labs, etc..)
Because of all of the above mentioned, I AM NOT calling other people crooks. However, I have visited some sites that I honestly feel do charge inflated prices because they are hoping to hook an uninformed stooge. Let's be honest, it happens.
Because of that, please read the OP with an open mind.
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