Ask The Chemist

[The_Vapin_Chemist]

Time for another tip!

Dividing your larger bottles of nicotine into smaller bottles will help extend the life of your nicotine. This works because your are exposing the liquid to less air per opening.

Also, remember to keep it in a freezer (out of reach of small children) for the longest lifespan!

 

[The_Vapin_Chemist]

Hello everyone,

With summer rolling around, I just wanted to give you a friendly reminder. Don't leave your e-juice in the car! Your MAX VG juice will quickly become as thin as water.

Happy vaping!

 

[YoursTruli]

Hi I see that you are recommending PG-nic for long term freezer storage over VG-nic while Kurt, our long time resident chemist, has recommended VG-nic, because it is much thicker in the freezer than PG-nic, so less molecular motion for nicotine to react with O2 that is naturally in VG or PG.
Kurt has VG-nic now that is still the same as the day he stored it in 2009, so 7 years. I am curious as to the length of time you have freezer stored PG-nic with good results and the testing you have done to base your PG-nic recommendation on. Thanks!

 

[salemgold]

Not sure what the Chemists answer to your question will be but, I have talked to Kurt about this as well. I have had much better luck with PG based nicotine in my freezer than with VG based nicotine. I tried storing VG based nicotine years ago (not from RTS) and it got a very bad taste and smell after just 6 months. Also turned dark in color. Not the case with my PG based nicotine. I have had some PG based nicotine in my freezer since 2010 that is the same ( home test kit) as it was when I put it in there. Clear, not much odor / taste (same as when stored)

To be fair, I did not actually test my VG based nicotine before disposing of it. It may have been just as potent as when it was stored but, I had no desire to use it.

 

[YoursTruli]

Not sure what the Chemists answer to your question will be but, I have talked to Kurt about this as well. I have had much better luck with PG based nicotine in my freezer than with VG based nicotine. I tried storing VG based nicotine years ago (not from RTS) and it got a very bad taste and smell after just 6 months. Also turned dark in color. Not the case with my PG based nicotine. I have had some PG based nicotine in my freezer since 2010 that is the same ( home test kit) as it was when I put it in there. Clear, not much odor / taste (same as when stored)

To be fair, I did not actually test my VG based nicotine before disposing of it. It may have been just as potent as when it was stored but, I had no desire to use it.

I experienced the same with PG-nic, turning very dark with a bad smell after 1 1/2 years of freezer storage so before I attempted it again and loaded up my freezer I went in search of answers. One thing was the type of freezer storage, kitchen refrigerator/freezer versus deep freezer that could account for issues and the other was PG versus VG. Did Kurt have a different answer for you on this and change his recommendation?

 

[salemgold]

I experienced the same with PG-nic, turning very dark with a bad smell after 1 1/2 years of freezer storage so before I attempted it again and loaded up my freezer I went in search of answers. One thing was the type of freezer storage, kitchen refrigerator/freezer versus deep freezer that could account for issues and the other was PG versus VG. Did Kurt have a different answer for you on this and change his recommendation?

I was actually trying to remember exactly what he said. It has been a few years lol

Before RTS came along, we were very limited on the choices that we had on where to buy nicotine. The vendor that I bought from may not have had the "cleanest" nicotine. I certainly appreciated RTS nic when they came along. It was the first tasteless, odorless nicotine that I had ever had the opportunity to try. I have been buying my nic here ever since.

It may have been contaminants in the nicotine? I just don't remember. But, I bought a small deep freezer specifically for nicotine several years back. It is stocked with RTS PG based nicotine.

I keep a bottle of PG based from 2010 from a vendor that there was quite a scandal about back in 2010 or 2011. Don't think that I can even mention their name here anymore. But, I take it out every now and then just to test. So far, so good.

I have the utmost respect for Kurt though. He tought me everything that I know about nicotine and how to handle/store it. He is usually very kind and very helpful. If you have a question, you may want to PM him and ask. I know that he stays pretty busy and it may take a bit to get an answer but, I feel certain that he will.

I do understand wanting to do your research before investing in any to store though. I have no clue if I am scientifically right or wrong. I only know that the one bad experience with freezing VG nic was bad enough to turn me against it for long term storage for good.

 

[KatzWh1skers]

I don't have a question, but I wanted to take the opp to thank you for the Carolina Line of juices. The Fort Sumter is my fav ... even with the funny name
And I mean favorite out of every juice I've ever tried to date .
Keep doin what your doin!

 

[The_Vapin_Chemist]

Hi @YoursTruli, thanks for participating in the thread!

The recommendation I gave earlier in the thread was based on my experiences and preference. I have a lot of respect for Kurt and value his insight on all vaping matters.

When talking long term storage there are four factors to consider for each individual. If we are talking about how the nic strength holds up over time; there is not a significant difference between PG or VG as long as the bottle is stored in the freezer, not shaken up, and the bottle opened as few times as possible (I discussed this part in post #21). This is assuming you are buying good nic to begin with (RTS is the best FYI ). The other two would be color and smell. In my experience the smell and clear color of PG based nic seems to hold up better long term and I believe this to be due to the thickness of the VG, I'll explain. When the VG (as well as PG) nic is being mixed and bottled it created bubbles in the liquid or as I like to call them evil O2 pockets. Since PG is so thin the air can escape relatively easy leaving only the air on top of the liquid. VG on the other hand can hold the O2 pockets for quite some time and if it is put in the freezer before they can escape then the O2 will react with the nicotine around it, freezer or not. There is one additional factor for the darker color of VG in long term storage. Partially due to the thickness of VG it has a higher index of refraction than PG meaning that light does not travel through VG as fast resulting in a darker liquid in regards to long term. The last factor is taste and I have not found a significant difference between PG or VG, this is more affected by the initial quality of the nicotine.

Lastly, I will leave you with this. I have been using the same liter of RTS custom strength PG nic for about 10 months now and it is almost empty. I have been bad at times when I've gotten busy at the office and left the bottle out on my desk for two or three days before it made it back to the freezer and in all regards the nic is the same today as when I started using it. The only difference I have noticed is I made a batch of my office favorite apple jacks and it had a slight harshness to it. I also have been vaping a little hotter than usual lately so that could be playing a role.

I hope you find this information helpful!

 

[The_Vapin_Chemist]

Thanks for the love @salemgold and @KatzWh1skers! Don't forget to tell your friends about all the things we are doing over here at RTS!

 

[YoursTruli]

Thank you for the responses well now I am at a bit of a loss as what to think. I did buy several liters of VG-nic to restock in a dedicated small chest deep freeze long term and worried I just wasted a lot of money, that it will go bad before I use it and not have it when I really need it down the road honestly I wish there was a good across the board consensus on this from the experts.

 

[The_Vapin_Chemist]

Thank you for the responses well now I am at a bit of a loss as what to think. I did buy several liters of VG-nic to restock in a dedicated small chest deep freeze long term and worried I just wasted a lot of money because it will go bad before I use it honestly I wish there was a good across the board consensus on this from the experts.

What are you considering long term?

 

[YoursTruli]

What are you considering long term?

5-10 years or greater is what I was considering long term

 

[The_Vapin_Chemist]

5-10 years or greater is what I was considering long term

Wow, that is indeed long term. Storage for that long of a period I believe will come down to care in storing it and the quality of the nicotine. Over the course of 5-10 years your nicotine will darken and change even under the right storage conditions no matter the base. As the nicotine reacts and changes over time a small, possibly a negligible amount of the nicotine will be lost to nicotine oxide derivatives over that amount of time. Kurt said once that nicotine will last for over 10 years with zero degradation, but what he doesn't say is that the nicotine he is referring to in that post was unadulterated nicotine that was purged of all atmospheric air and stored in the most critical of environments.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Does flavoring ever go bad? Not asking per a particular company that produces flavoring, just a generalized question. Do any of the flavorings that RTS vapes sell have expiration dates? Are they stored in any particular way that maybe those of us that do DIY should practice?
Thanks

 

[The_Vapin_Chemist]

Does flavoring ever go bad? Not asking per a particular company that produces flavoring, just a generalized question. Do any of the flavorings that RTS vapes sell have expiration dates? Are they stored in any particular way that maybe those of us that do DIY should practice?
Thanks

Technically no, flavors do not go bad like you think of with food or drinks. Flavors do change over time having an effect on the taste of the flavor. We suggest that flavors be used within 9 months of purchase for best results. As far as storage goes, flavors are best stored in glass over plastic (which is why we sell our 10, 30, and 120 mL bottles of flavorings in glass) because flavors can react with the plastic and ruin both the plastic and the flavor. Also, they should be stored in a cool, dark place (not the refrigerator).

 

[salemgold]

Hmmm... I have some RTS nic in PG base that has been there for 4 or 5 years ( need to look to be sure) that has not turned dark in color. Also, the nicotine that I have from 6 years ago in PG base (not RTS) has not changed color or strength. I have enough in there now to last me at least 10 years.

My 6 year old bottle started out in my freezer attached to fridge and then moved to my deep freezer. Nothing special was done to it before storing. It is stored in amber glass bottles.

I always refer back to Kurts original post when storing nicotine long term. It has not let me down yet.

kurtnicstorage

Of course the theory has not been tested but, I have seen a few chemists (including Kurt) say that they suspect that nicotine may even last (potency) indefinitely when stored properly. I feel very confident with my supply if that counts for anything.

People are stocking up now due to the upcoming regulations and probable taxation. Most will be stocking up for 5, 10 and even more years.

 

[The_Vapin_Chemist]

Of course the theory has not been tested but, I have seen a few chemists (including Kurt) say that they suspect that nicotine may even last (potency) indefinitely when stored properly. I feel very confident with my supply if that counts for anything.

I would agree with this theory as it relates to potency.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Technically no, flavors do not go bad like you think of with food or drinks. Flavors do change over time having an effect on the taste of the flavor. We suggest that flavors be used within 9 months of purchase for best results. As far as storage goes, flavors are best stored in glass over plastic (which is why we sell our 10, 30, and 120 mL bottles of flavorings in glass) because flavors can react with the plastic and ruin both the plastic and the flavor. Also, they should be stored in a cool, dark place (not the refrigerator).

I have limited spacing problems so I am guilty of the refrigerator storage.....for flavors. But they won't last long enough for me to know if that is incorrect because I use them up rather quickly. Good to know for future reference.
Thanks

 

[Debadoo]

Is RTS nic sold in glass bottles or plastic? I was looking at the 300mg liter specifically to break down.


I've heard that amber glass is better for keeping out light, and that cobalt glass is better... I'm thinking amber would be better, but would like your thoughts.

Very good to know about storing flavorings in glass. I had thought that would be best, but didn't really know for sure.

Thanks! Really glad I found this, a lot of good information here, and confirmation of stuff.

 

[k2zs]

I vape mostly menthol flavored juices and I would like to know how best to use your Menthol Crystals. I've been using either CAP or TFA Menthol in my mixes but there's a premium juice that's no longer available that claims to use natural organic menthol crystals that I would like to duplicate. It really does have a much cleaner smother menthol taste.

I just placed an order for 1oz of your crystals and I've read that 1gr/1ml pg is the preferred ratio, just wondering how best to use your crystals.