aspergers and vaping.
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I grew up Lutheran, then Methodist, then Baptist. I don't know what my life would be like if I couldn't pray and ask 'Him' for help. Sorry you had the 'hell' thing beaten into you. Unfortunately, in my opinion, many of the 'Christians' of today are like the 'Pharisees' of yesterday. Salvation is a gift - not something you can earn. Many people believe they are 'earning' their way, therefore since in their mind, they are doing right, they can judge others. It's just not so. No human is perfect. That's not at all what God wants. Jesus died for us. We are accepted as we are. We are only to try to get closer to 'Him' and do the best we can. Like the hymn: Just as I am, without one plea.
I grew up methodist. My current belief is that we are completely incapable of understanding the true concept of any intelligent design or higher power. It's just impossible. This is why our mythological system always creates gods in our image, we can't imagine the universe beyond our own tiny existence. I think that our purpose here is to make the world a better place than what we left it. To help others, to move the human race forward. To provide to others. "To do no harm" essentially.
But here's the caveat. I highly doubt that if a higher power does exist, for instance the christian god, he/she/it/they would look at our lives and say, you did amazing things in this world, you have created a better place, you have genuinely helped others, but because you haven't accepted me into your heart and taken ME as your true creator, you're going to hell. But this guy, who showed up at church, said what the hell, I believe in christ, but hasn't done a single good thing in his entire life, or has been "forgiven" of his sins, would go to *hypothetical* heaven. I just can't imagine that a higher power that has *hypothetically* created the entire universe would be that petty and vain. . .
TL;DR
I don't believe in a higher power because my brain can't comprehend infinite ideas. I believe that we should do good in the world, leave it a better place than we found it. And that is enough.
But here's the caveat. I highly doubt that if a higher power does exist, for instance the christian god, he/she/it/they would look at our lives and say, you did amazing things in this world, you have created a better place, you have genuinely helped others, but because you haven't accepted me into your heart and taken ME as your true creator, you're going to hell. But this guy, who showed up at church, said what the hell, I believe in christ, but hasn't done a single good thing in his entire life, or has been "forgiven" of his sins, would go to *hypothetical* heaven. I just can't imagine that a higher power that has *hypothetically* created the entire universe would be that petty and vain. . .
TL;DR
I don't believe in a higher power because my brain can't comprehend infinite ideas. I believe that we should do good in the world, leave it a better place than we found it. And that is enough.
That's because you are trying to reason about God and a higher power through your rational and carnal thinking which by it's very definition is the direct opposite of faith .... You cannot believe in a higher power without faith, it is impossible. The carnal part of your thinking needs proof and facts, but the faith portion needs none of that.
Magnetism and magnetic forces existed since the universe was here but yet man didn't even realize they were there. It was not known that magnetic fields existed until lodge stones washed up on beaches and people noticed that these stones attracted and physically influenced other metals. So, because mankind could not see the magnetic fields did it make the magnetic fields any less real? The fact that we cannot see God in our daily activities should in now way imply that he is not there or not real. It's all about using your faith to worship him and not your intellect.. Intellect is in direct opposition to faith.
Why do you think primitive peoples and tribes all over the world have always believed in some sort of a God/Gods? It is because even in the very core of our Genetic code we know that something intelligent and powerful has created all of physical matter. Some idiotic scholars will try to tell you that it is just "natural" for primitive people to believe in greater things than themselves.... Notice that I emphasized the word "natural" here.... The reason is because it is not natural to believe in something that is spiritual in nature, hence scholars who think that way are just plain wrong. It's not very difficult to see why people started to believe in a higher power even though doing so is not much of a natural act...
The problem with our current time is that the modern religious denominations have twisted the biblical teachings and writings to where they resemble little of what they were meant. Further, most churches do not read the original Hebrew writings of the Bible which often times portray God and some of Jesus teachings in a much different manner. Some of Jesus teachings in Hebrew mean things and ideas that are 100% different than what is being taught in many Western (American) churches. So, if a person studies both the Hebrew Bible as well as the English Bible then things make much more sense and a person can start to understand spiritual concepts as they were really meant to be understood instead of being warped and twisted.
I would argue that believing in a higher power is very natural to us. We seek explanations for things that we don't understand. We didn't understand the movement of the planets for a very long time. There were hundreds of stories explaining how the stars were created and how the moon moved and how the sun moved. Those are gone now because we scientifically understand how those things work. We didn't understand fire, and thus there were stories about the gods giving us fire.
To me, creationism will always be a story to attempt to understand our origins.
I envy those who can blindly have faith in things. How pleasant it must be to ask a creator for assistance rather than to rely on the knowledge that you cannot change circumstances or you must do things yourself.
I'm not a debater, so this is probably where I'll leave the conversation, because I'm concerned about offending. If I've offended, I'm sorry. I'll never understand your POV and you'll probably never understand mine.
But that's what makes this world fun. And terrifying.
The important part in my mind, is that we each see, that despite our different religious or spiritual beliefs, we are all human. We are all stuck on this giant rock. And we all must coexist.
To me, creationism will always be a story to attempt to understand our origins.
I envy those who can blindly have faith in things. How pleasant it must be to ask a creator for assistance rather than to rely on the knowledge that you cannot change circumstances or you must do things yourself.
I'm not a debater, so this is probably where I'll leave the conversation, because I'm concerned about offending. If I've offended, I'm sorry. I'll never understand your POV and you'll probably never understand mine.
But that's what makes this world fun. And terrifying.
The important part in my mind, is that we each see, that despite our different religious or spiritual beliefs, we are all human. We are all stuck on this giant rock. And we all must coexist.
"It is because even in the very core of our Genetic code we know that something intelligent and powerful has created all of physical matter."
I have defective genes. For a few of us the need for a higher power and the faith to believe in one is not possible.
I have defective genes. For a few of us the need for a higher power and the faith to believe in one is not possible.
@MaenadMoogle ---- Nope, curiosity is natural --- You have proved my point about believing in a higher power being the core of who we are. It's the WHY we have that as our core is the difference in ideologies in people. Traditional science "assumes" that humans contain that belief because they are curious creatures that have some psychological need to think that something more powerful than them exists. Then there are others, such as myself, who think that there is a natural belief inside of us because we once walked and talked with God himself, plus the physical universe was created by him. You are thinking like the Marxist and Father of Psychology thought..(so typical of scientifically minded people, especially aspie heads) ... Of course we seek explanations for things, it's part of our curiosity and hence part of our intellect.... But as already mentioned, our intellect is the problem here when it concerns faith. People are trying to use physical laws, axioms, math and whatever else is around them to understand the physical universe.... This is all well and good (it's called science) but is in direct opposition to understanding the spiritual realm.... It is impossible to understand spiritual matters via the carnal mind, through science, or through any other means that is available in the physical plane of existence. ....Hence the need for faith .... Faith states that you do not need to understand everything, or much of anything for that matter.... So, does that mean that most Christians are totally stupid because they are using faith instead of their intellect? No ... there are many brilliant scientists who are very spiritually minded folks.We could use science and discover everything there is to know about the universe and we would be no closer to understanding a tittle about God than we did when we were cavemen. You can't understand the spiritual side of things from carnal thinking and science. It's impossible. The spiritual realm is obviously not in the physical realm and hence there is no physical way to reach it, nor is there any way to reach it by natural or carnal thought processes. The only avenue or key available for people is though the invisible thing called faith.
The worst people who I always come across for believing in God or having any amount of faith is the scientifically minded folks.... To make matters worse, people who have Asperger's are even worse yet... That's because us Aspie heads view everything literally and if we can't study it and measure it, and prove it, then it doesn't exist. So, it surprises me little that people in an Asperger thread would have zero clue about faith.... I spent my entire life without any either, being the aspie head I am made things much worse. So, I know exactly where you folks are coming from... However, I also have learned a few things in the last few years that have set my stupid carnal thinking in various other directions.
But like yourselves, this is a topic I probably won't debate about because it is pointless..... I can't make people have faith or see what I have begun to see nor would I ever force it upon others. But at the same time, I am not a holy roller either... I do not even go to church.... But to myself, spiritual things are quite real. They never used to be and I was quite the agnostic for sure.
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Yup. But I'll never be that person. And that's okay.
I find comfort in knowing that I've succeeded or failed in life because of my own capabilities (and luck of being born when and where and who I was) and not the intervention of some mythical creator.
I also find comfort in not wasting time trying to understand the universe. C'est la vie.
We could use science and discover everything there is to know about the universe and we would be no closer to understanding a tittle about God than we did when we were cavemen. You can't understand the spiritual side of things from carnal thinking and science. It's impossible. The spiritual realm is obviously not in the physical realm and hence there is no physical way to reach it, nor is there any way to reach it by natural or carnal thought processes. The only avenue or key available for people is though the invisible thing called faith.
The worst people who I always come across for believing in God or having any amount of faith is the scientifically minded folks.... To make matters worse, people who have Asperger's are even worse yet... That's because us Aspie heads view everything literally and if we can't study it and measure it, and prove it, then it doesn't exist. So, it surprises me little that people in an Asperger thread would have zero clue about faith.... I spent my entire life without any either, being the aspie head I am made things much worse. So, I know exactly where you folks are coming from... However, I also have learned a few things in the last few years that have set my stupid carnal thinking in various other directions.
But like yourselves, this is a topic I probably won't debate about because it is pointless..... I can't make people have faith or see what I have begun to see nor would I ever force it upon others. But at the same time, I am not a holly roller either... I do not even go to church.... But to myself, spiritual things are quite real. They never used to be and I was quite the agnostic for sure.
I see where you're coming from. Interestingly, I've never thought of them as two completely separate "realms". Hrm.
I enjoy hearing how other people come to their conclusions. Especially when they aren't conclusions I would ever reach.
I'm not a debater, but I think these back and forths are fun. I don't do well with them in person, I tend to either fact dump or get so anxious I can't speak. I like that we can have these conversations without upsetting each other or attempting to change anybody's mind. That's a big thing.
It's always interesting to me to see how others think.
It's always interesting to me to see how others think.
That's because you are a very intelligent personI enjoy hearing how other people come to their conclusions. Especially when they aren't conclusions I would ever reach.
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