Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material

[philoshop]

Isn't this the same discussion (and explanation) that was had regarding the BVC when it first came out? Why are we having it again?

Because it's come up again, and it's an important consideration regarding the products we choose.

I think that many of us turned to vaping precisely because we wanted to limit the junk that we were inhaling with the burning of cigarettes. Harm Reduction.
That we're willing, as a community, to ask a manufacturer to provide information regarding the materials they use in a product is a good thing. It means that we care about what we're doing, and the ANTZ would love nothing more than to be able to show that we can't take care of ourselves. That is after all the reasoning behind most regulation.

 

[Big Me]

Because it's come up again, and it's an important consideration regarding the products we choose.

I think that many of us turned to vaping precisely because we wanted to limit the junk that we were inhaling with the burning of cigarettes. Harm Reduction.
That we're willing, as a community, to ask a manufacturer to provide information regarding the materials they use in a product is a good thing. It means that we care about what we're doing, and the ANTZ would love nothing more than to be able to show that we can't take care of ourselves. That is after all the reasoning behind most regulation.

But the Atlantis coil is just a bigger, lower Ohm, version of the Nautilus BVC. Aspire have already explained what the BVC is made from. Do people think that if you keep asking the same question, you'll somehow get a different answer?

 

[philoshop]

You're right Big Me. But I'm still not entirely sure we've gotten an answer at all. Part of the wicking is done by a ceramic paper that is apparently proprietary, and I understand their desire to safeguard that invention. I have no idea what 'ceramic paper' is.

 

[drunkenbatman]

I also think some people are confusing asbestos with ceramic and this is not the case.

Nobody is confusing this with asbestos (well, maybe some are I dunno). Some just aren't aware that they're saying ceramic paper to avoid saying fiberglass.

 

[Big Me]

IIRC, the ceramic material is woven into the fibre ("paper") and helps regulate the amount of liquid reaching the coil. Because it's porous, it will absorb liquid but as its ceramic, it's less likely to be affected by the heat from the coil.

I've still no idea regarding the real reason for the metal screen though...

 

[drunkenbatman]

I've still no idea regarding the real reason for the metal screen though...

The best guesses are as a filter (unlikely, and if you look at their release it's worded very carefully to 'suggest' without actually saying it stops particulates of the size to be worried about) and to help with spitting, or both. Some of the clone coils use a less-fine mesh and have reported more spitting, but I haven't personally confirmed it. And if you remove it entirely, more spitting.

And just FYI from before, "why would they want to kill off all their customers, it has to be safe" isn't a solid argument because frankly Aspire isn't going to be the one worrying about it in 10-15 years. Consider how long diacetyl was being used in microwave popcorn before it became something that couldn't be ignored. It isn't as though in 10-15 years you'll go "Oh, this was obviously the fiberglass coils from... I'm gonna file suit against that company in China."

That just isn't how situations like these work, where in 2 weeks we can point to Aspire users falling over with obvious fibrous scarring in their lungs that started from a little seed of it. We know inhaling fiberglass particles is bad because a bunch of people got (and still get) permanently ill, it's why you have to wear a dust mask when working with it. And no, a simple porous metal mesh is not a dust mask.

 

[Ryedan]

I'm just bewildered at the blatant misinformation in the post linked in the Reddit link I posted. VJoe Canada got it so wrong about the construction of the Atlantis coils and had no issue declaring them a significant health hazard. I think a retraction of their post and an apology to Aspire for spreading misinformation is in order.

At first I thought you were right Abacus Artifact. I was wrong, I agree with VJoe now.

 

[Ryedan]

Some just aren't aware that they're saying ceramic paper to avoid saying fiberglass.

What do you base that on drunkenbatman?

 

[Coldrake]

What do you base that on drunkenbatman?

Beat me to it.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Stop saying "Asbestos" like its a bad thing. People have feelings.
Personally, I'm grateful these things get brought up and analyzed. It is an example of self regulation. We should continue to force manufacturers to prove that their products are safe. If it weren't for those who "nitpick" , the manufacturer would have less motivation to innovate . The "we smoked for x years, why should we care now..." argument is ridiculous and irresponsible.

 

[00MousePotato]

Ceramic Paper is not fiberglass. While what aspire uses maybe of different composition, the ceramic paper I am fa miler with is composed of metal oxide fibers, mainly Aluminum Oxide and and Silicon Dioxide, although other metal oxides are present. One of my professors is doing research on using it as a filter in waste water treatment. It's tough and durable and able to withstand very high temperatures, but I wouldn't want to breath the fibers if they were to break off.

 

[drunkenbatman]

What do you base that on drunkenbatman?

Their own testing, they released a PDF (since yanked from their site) and the lab said what it actually was -- and it doesn't behave as it should, it crumbles into dust. I'm doing multiple things but can grab it in a bit, as it's come up before. And this is the company that sold stainless steel, which was actually chromed brass and when caught out said "Oh, we didn't actually consider the chimney part of the tank." I can grab a link to the actual PDF shortly if someone doesn't beat me to it.

 

[johnny madman]

Stop saying "Asbestos" like its a bad thing. People have feelings.
Personally, I'm grateful these things get brought up and analyzed. It is an example of self regulation. We should continue to force manufacturers to prove that their products are safe. If it weren't for those who "nitpick" , the manufacturer would have less motivation to innovate . The "we smoked for x years, why should we care now..." argument is ridiculous and irresponsible.

Going around and talking about the same hash that has been discussed before is ridiculous. As if that was not bad enough continue to argue as if you found something all while riding on your high horse is amazing. Scaremongering without any proof, on this dead topic can you please tell me who we helped with this hysteria?

Just wait while these hysterics feed into the frying pan and fry us all with bans and taxes. While people like you save us from imaginary boogiemen while the wolves are at the gate.

 

[Ryedan]

Their own testing, they released a PDF (since yanked from their site) and the lab said what it actually was -- and it doesn't behave as actual ceramic paper I'm familiar with in your hand, it crumbles into dust. I'm doing multiple things but can grab it in a bit, as it's come up before. And this is the company that sold stainless steel, which was actually chromed brass and when caught out said "Oh, we didn't actually consider the chimney part of the tank." I can grab a link to the actual PDF shortly if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Thank you drunkenbatman, it would be great to read that pdf. There's no rush.

 

[KC33]

And this is the company that sold stainless steel, which was actually chromed brass and when caught out said "Oh, we didn't actually consider the chimney part of the tank." I can grab a link to the actual PDF shortly if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Exactly, that was such BS and now we're suppose to trust them about the wicking material. I'll stick with the Subtank with the Japanese cotton wicking material.

 

[Ryedan]

Going around and talking about the same hash that has been discussed before is ridiculous. As if that was not bad enough continue to argue as if you found something all while riding on your high horse is amazing. Scaremongering without any proof, on this dead topic can you please tell me who we helped with this hysteria?

Just wait while these hysterics feed into the frying pan and fry us all with bans and taxes. While people like you save us from imaginary boogiemen while the wolves are at the gate.

I appreciate possible health issues brought to light. I've been around long enough to have seen a lot of issues discussed that typically ended up to be IMO perfectly safe though sometimes I changed how I was using those products because of what I found out due to some uncertainty.

Some people become pretty hysterical and illogical about potential issues. You seem to be becoming hysterical and illogical about talking about issues. Both extremes are IMO a problem.

The best deal is sensible discussion that promotes knowledge from good data. Just because I think I've seen this subject come up 10 times before doesn't mean this time might not be different. The worst scenario would be for people to get hurt from vaping. The issue of wolves at the door is pretty insignificant compared to that.

 

[KC33]

Some people become pretty hysterical and illogical about potential issues. You are becoming hysterical and illogical about talking about issues. Both extremes are IMO a problem

Amen to that.

 

[johnny madman]

Exactly, that was such BS and now we're suppose to trust them about the wicking material. I'll stick with the Subtank with the Japanese cotton wicking material.

Do you mean to say that you use Fukashima Tainted Radio Active Cotton? What are we calling that these days, FTRAC, sounds yummy and real safe . Thanks for the heads up, can't wait to try it, anything except ceramic wick, I can vape and glow in the dark all at the same time.

 

[The Ocelot]

Their own testing, they released a PDF (since yanked from their site) and the lab said what it actually was -- and it doesn't behave as actual ceramic paper I'm familiar with in your hand, it crumbles into dust. I'm doing multiple things but can grab it in a bit, as it's come up before. And this is the company that sold stainless steel, which was actually chromed brass and when caught out said "Oh, we didn't actually consider the chimney part of the tank." I can grab a link to the actual PDF shortly if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Here's the PDF: http://kn100.info/hosted/scs.pdf

 

[pbxbelmar]

Their own testing, they released a PDF (since yanked from their site) and the lab said what it actually was -- and it doesn't behave as actual ceramic paper I'm familiar with in your hand, it crumbles into dust. I'm doing multiple things but can grab it in a bit, as it's come up before. And this is the company that sold stainless steel, which was actually chromed brass and when caught out said "Oh, we didn't actually consider the chimney part of the tank." I can grab a link to the actual PDF shortly if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Based on a couple of rebuild videos I've watched the 'paper' the pdf refers to is the paper that surrounds the wicking material, not the wicking material itself. That stuff definitely crumbles. The paper does not. The actual substance that is in two pads around the coil is the actual issue, I believe.