Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material

[drunkenbatman]

Thank you drunkenbatman, it would be great to read that pdf. There's no rush.

Ah, it was actually in one of my earlier posts. Full disclosure, I don't recommend anyone go through my posts.

Here's the link to the report they had posted for SGS certification, which you generally have to do to for doing international stuff (which they then removed from their website after people found it):

http://kn100.info/hosted/scs.pdf

They clearly submitted this stuff for testing as fiberglass paper, and well paper is just fibers pressed together. For now, let's ignore the lead in it that can leach into liquid. Both ceramic & fiberglass paper exist, though fiberglass will actually burn whereas ceramic will just deform. For reference, the reason why it's bad in general this to get into your lungs is that at a microscopic level, they're jagged and do damage to your lungs. Inhaling crumbling fine silica is not a good thing.

The Ocelot passed this pbusardo video on, and about 14min in you can see this stuff crumble in his hands. If you notice, the mesh ring is only covering the outside, not even the center; it'll help with spitting but even if it was 100% effective against these particulates there's a giant hole in the center of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGK7B-2z4Gs

And just as a disclaimer who's seen this runaround in the tech world, the whole "We can't say exactly what it is because it's proprietary" is total BS. That's a runaround tactic designed to buy time because they don't want to tell you. This isn't like damascus steel that gets lost to history because they're making this from scratch in the basement and are afraid their secret formula will be copied; they're buying this from a supplier, simply don't want to say.

To be clear, I have no skin in the game; my sense of self-identity is tied to my bulge, not a brand. I think having a picture of calvin pissing on the chevy logo on your Ford is just as silly as one pissing on an Aspire on your Kanger. But this is a company known to use weasel-wording and back-pedaling, and there is little downside to them running out the clock on this with misdirection, especially with some of their customers wanting to help them.

Some people become pretty hysterical and illogical about potential issues. You seem to be becoming hysterical and illogical about talking about issues. Both extremes are IMO a problem.

Word.

*gives the horns*

 

[drunkenbatman]

Just as an aside, because I don't want to edit the above for posterity (though that typo is killing me), while I touched on this in my post about why dust and particles from this stuff is so bad, here's an excerpt about "high temperature insulation wool" which is basically ceramic paper, or refractory ceramic fibre, and comes in two types: alkaline earth silicate & alumino silcate. Alumino silicate is for >900C temps.

"According to scientific findings inorganic fibre dust particles with a length-to-diameter ratio exceeding 3:1, a length longer than 5 μm (0.005 mm) and a diameter smaller than 3 μm (WHO-Fibres) are considered health-critical."

In fairness, a lot of the tumor-science is being reevaluated (though my research shows this is tricky, as much is the industry going "yeah, organic fibers of those lengths do bad stuff but ours is man-made so that research doesn't apply" wonkiness), but not the scarring & inflammation and other stuff.

Anyways, I'm not an expert on some of this stuff, and am willing to reevaluate -- but with the above in my head I just can't in good conscience recommend this stuff right now.

 

[Cloud_Chaser]

I just purchased my Atlantis today, and I am loving it. Now I read this thread, and I almost want to take it off of my Vaporshark :-(
Until it is proven this stuff is safe, do you know if the Kanger Subtank is safe? Might pick it up to use until all of this is figured out

 

[Maiar]

To everyone saying that we didn't pay any attention to what was in cigarettes so us nitpicking about what's in these is being stupid can eat me. If I still didn't care what was in cigarettes I'd still be smoking. But I grew up. I realized I want to live longer and healthier. So NOW I care what's in these things. If you don't care what's in them why did you even switch? Why would anyone switch to quit smoking and not care what's in them? That's so ....ing dumb that it's astounding at this point.

 

[drunkenbatman]

Until it is proven this stuff is safe, do you know if the Kanger Subtank is safe? Might pick it up to use until all of this is figured out

I don't have one, so can't speak to performance or such but my understanding is it has 2 head types: organic cotton heads they sell, and an RBA head so you can build your own coils and use whatever wicking you'd like.

 

[Cloud_Chaser]

I don't have one, so can't speak to performance or such but my understanding is it has 2 head types: organic cotton heads they sell, and an RBA head so you can build your own coils and use whatever wicking you'd like.

I read that as well. I might purchase one, but I will also probably do what the gentleman in this video did https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ZBh4X8wQo
He simply removed the questionable stuff, and wrapped it with Japanese cotton.

One last question though. I read on here about Japanese cotton being contaminated with radiation. I usually wouldn't pay much attention to a claim like that, but I just want to be on the safe side.

 

[drunkenbatman]

One last question though. I read on here about Japanese cotton being contaminated with radiation. I usually wouldn't pay much attention to a claim like that, but I just want to be on the safe side.

With respect as people to the people who are spouting it, it's fear-mongering nonsense you can safely ignore.

Though as a fun fact, bananas have a surprising amount of radiation in them, as do you! And rocks, but you taste way better.

 

[Cloud_Chaser]

I figured as much. Thank you very much you unsober bat person

 

[bwh79]

What sense does it make to kill your customers?

It's been working out well enough for BT so far...

 

[The Ocelot]

I read on here about Japanese cotton being contaminated with radiation. I usually wouldn't pay much attention to a claim like that, but I just want to be on the safe side.

I believe it's Koh Gen Doh that's the popular cotton. Hi Ro Shima is the one to avoid.

 

[Cloud_Chaser]

I'll also stay away from Fu Ku Shima cotton as well

 

[Asbestos4004]

Going around and talking about the same hash that has been discussed before is ridiculous. As if that was not bad enough continue to argue as if you found something all while riding on your high horse is amazing. Scaremongering without any proof, on this dead topic can you please tell me who we helped with this hysteria?

Just wait while these hysterics feed into the frying pan and fry us all with bans and taxes. While people like you save us from imaginary boogiemen while the wolves are at the gate.

What are you using for wicking material? There's a pretty good chance that, whatever it is, can cause paranoia, obnoxiousness and irritability. It can also make someone seem a little whiny. You should try Rayon.

 

[Ryedan]

Ah, it was actually in one of my earlier posts. Full disclosure, I don't recommend anyone go through my posts.

Here's the link to the report they had posted for SGS certification, which you generally have to do to for doing international stuff (which they then removed from their website after people found it):

http://kn100.info/hosted/scs.pdf

They clearly submitted this stuff for testing as fiberglass paper, and well paper is just fibers pressed together. For now, let's ignore the lead in it that can leach into liquid. Both ceramic & fiberglass paper exist, though fiberglass will actually burn whereas ceramic will just deform. For reference, the reason why it's bad in general this to get into your lungs is that at a microscopic level, they're jagged and do damage to your lungs. Inhaling crumbling fine silica is not a good thing.

Thanks drunkenbatman and The Ocelot for the link and info

 

[Ryedan]

Just as an aside, because I don't want to edit the above for posterity (though that typo is killing me), while I touched on this in my post about why dust and particles from this stuff is so bad, here's an excerpt about "high temperature insulation wool" which is basically ceramic paper, or refractory ceramic fibre, and comes in two types: alkaline earth silicate & alumino silcate. Alumino silicate is for >900C temps.

"According to scientific findings inorganic fibre dust particles with a length-to-diameter ratio exceeding 3:1, a length longer than 5 μm (0.005 mm) and a diameter smaller than 3 μm (WHO-Fibres) are considered health-critical."

In fairness, a lot of the tumor-science is being reevaluated (though my research shows this is tricky, as much is the industry going "yeah, organic fibers of those lengths do bad stuff but ours is man-made so that research doesn't apply" wonkiness), but not the scarring & inflammation and other stuff.

Anyways, I'm not an expert on some of this stuff, and am willing to reevaluate -- but with the above in my head I just can't in good conscience recommend this stuff right now.

Yes, as I understood it it's the size of this stuff that's critical for health. I don't mind using good silica wick because I'm convinced it doesn't make those fine particles. I've also found alumino silcate and that looks like it could be a problem, but this stuff is pretty technical and sometimes minor points can make a big difference.

It's really unfortunate that Aspire didn't come clean and explain why they think this is safe. The world is pretty small these days and a bit of doubt can become bad for business fast.

I agree with your conclusion. I need to know more before I could in good conscience recommend this product.

 

[Strings]

I was worried about this... until I started rebuilding them with cotton...

Design is nice. But they need to own up to the fact that folks are worried about the materials. And that release in the first post just read like "we're gonna weasle as long as you'll let us!"

 

[OlderNDirt]

Just a couple points/comments/questions/concerns/whateverlabelyouwanttogiveit:

1. What is your level of "safe" and how do you prove a negative? Until it can be proven something I am vaping is more dangerous then smoking tobacco, I will vape. If I have a concern with a specific juice or device, I will avoid it if I have that amount of fear. Campaigning against a juice and/or item does no good other then contributing to #2.

2. We're doomed! Show your concern with the safety of a product by refusing to buy/use the product. Public inquiries and discussions will only fuel the fire leading to government control of the product, which the government is already highly interested in and motivated to acquire. I'm not disagreeing with the concerns and interest in this subject, but by policing our own "hobby", we give the impression we want the government to "come to our aid" and it is fairly safe to say their approval is not an assurance any of our concerns are not founded.

Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to get in my car and drive to Mickey D's and grab a burger and fries, walk across the street to the drug store and pick up my meds, and grab some red dye while I am there. When I get home, I am going to put my Atlantis away cuase it has not been proven to be safe beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[drunkenbatman]

2. We're doomed! Show your concern with the safety of a product by refusing to buy/use the product.

Caveat emptor, but think this through. I wouldn't buy an atomizer made out of lead, because I know how lead works. Not everyone does, so they can't make an informed decision and assume someone wouldn't sell something if it wasn't safe.

Public inquiries and discussions will only fuel the fire leading to government control of the product, which the government is already highly interested in and motivated to acquire.

With respect, I think this is understandable yet short-sighted. You're essentially advocating silence about/for potential bad actors to avoid potentially damaging a public image, or to avoid giving ammunition to those looking for it.

This is extremely dangerous, as you can quickly end up somewhere you never consciously intended. It's the same mindset that led to the catholic church covering up abuse, penn state ignoring a predator to protect their football legacy, not releasing torture memos, general motors ignoring a simple switch they know kills people, the mcrib, etc.

And yes, there are people out there who will terrible things because they don't process the human equations as we do. Not long ago someone made the decision to put melamine into baby formula to raise its' protein content, killing some babies and sickening hundreds of thousands. Babies, dude. Think about how differently someone is thinking from you for that to happen.

I lean hard against regulation (super against taxes on eliquid, just for public health reasons), but it won't be people attempting to protect their fellow vapers that cause it. The bad actors are the ones responsible for this stuff, and deserve your ire for endangering a good thing with their short-sightedness.

They are essentially predators -- and silence is enabling to a predator, not helpful to the group.

 

[bigrf85]

Well at least they confirmed my stance that the little suckers shouldn't be dry burned.

i had a strong stand such as yours after i took an rda set at 50 watts off and put the atlantis off without lowering the wattage lol

 

[Katya]

This is what I know:

http://srs.unm.edu/industrial-hygien...ocs/silica.pdf

Silica is generally considered to be potentially harmful when very small particles are inhaled deep into the lungs, where the macrophages are unable to remove the fragments which then become lodged in the alveolar lung tissue, causing miliary nodulation (classic silicosis) and scarring/fibrotic changes in both lungs.

Amorphous Silica: Multiple studies have found amorphous silica to be biologically inert when ingested and inhaled, with the exception of extruded fiberglass and ceramic fibers (which have been designated as carcinogens by the National Toxicology Program), which are hazardous due to their very small size and their high length to width aspect ratio. Because of this inertness, the US Food and Drug Administration permits the use of amorphous silica (not fiberglass or ceramic fibers!) in food and medicine.

And since we don't even know what kind of fiberglass/ceramic paper they are using...

Again, it's just me. I've been trying to get information about that fiberglass (confirmed by a Swiss-based lab) since September. The company has not exactly been truthful in their responses--to my emails and in public, on their website--about the materials they use in their tanks (it ain't stainless steel, folks) and in their coils. I don't like being lied to. And now they claim that they are using organic Japanese cotton also??? Nobody mentioned that before.

I'll stay with amorphous silica wicks and Japanese organic cotton--at least for now. Silicosis and lung cancer are no fun. The only things we really need in our PVs (necessary risk) are PG, VG, nicotine and some kind of a heating wire (nichrome, kanthal, nickel, stainless steel, titanium). Everything else is just an add-on. I try to avoid add-ons that may pose unnecessary and completely avoidable risks.

Using fiberglass as a wicking material is just plain foolish. There are much better choices out there.

As always, YMMV.

 

[Katya]

Self regulate with hysteria?

Asking questions and expecting truthful answers is considered hysteria?

BTW, this is what this forum is for--we question everything. We take things apart and analyze them. We exchange information and warn each other about possible dangers. We write letters to manufacturers and vendors, express our concerns, and ask for explanations and/or changes. We've been doing it since day 1. This industry is completely unregulated--we have to regulate it ourselves.

Welcome to the forum!