Attn: atomizer rebuilders

[jbwolf]

I'm going through 801 Atomizers like jelly beans. They last about 2 days on average.
I know I must be doing something wrong since others have different stories. I try dripping, refilling carts, pre-filled carts, mostly I get hot air and eventually a dead atomizer.

As for rebuilding, it's basically a light bulb in construction. Light bulbs don't use solder (you couldn't solder to Tungsten if your life depended on it), the connecting wires look like they are spot welded around the filament.

If someone had the dough, they could build Atty the same way (NiCr wire would still be fine) It needs some real engineering to make a cleanable, serviceable atomizer that's meant to do the job we ask it to do.

Jeff

 

[crazyhorse]

This is just nonsense. And bad-tempered.

Sorry. It is not my intent to be bad-tempered. My intent is to develop a way to rebuild these lousy atomizers.

 

[kinabaloo]

Sorry. It is not my intent to be bad-tempered. My intent is to develop a way to rebuild these lousy atomizers.

RjG has rebuilt the coils and reassembled the atty (Cigar Rebuild thread) and has some tips there.

You will doubtless find that no matter who makes it, it will have the familar problems because that is the nature of the heater wire, vaping activity (lots of heating and cooling), juices that leave a residue and able to go where it shouldn't.

Hence, though it's great to able to make replacements, it's also good to explore possible alternative designs.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

RjG has rebuilt the coils and reassembled the atty (Cigar Rebuild thread) and has some tips there.

You will doubtless find that no matter who makes it, it will have the familar problems because that is the nature of the heater wire, vaping activity (lots of heating and cooling), juices that leave a residue and able to go where it shouldn't.

Hence, though it's great to able to make replacements, it's also good to explore possible alternative designs.

I agree with you Kina---they will always have issues as you state without a doubt. I just want to be able to have a way to replace that coil and wiring without having to discard the rest of the unit. Wheater that is feasbable or not I do not know----------Sun

 

[halfcent50]

It seems to me that there are miniature ceramic heater "coils" used somewhere. I just can't place where I have seen them. Like 3mm or 4mm diameter and 1mm or 2mm thick. Does this sound familiar to anyone? They would be more durable and less likely to be susciptible to juice. Just a thought.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

It seems to me that there are miniature ceramic heater "coils" used somewhere. I just can't place where I have seen them. Like 3mm or 4mm diameter and 1mm or 2mm thick. Does this sound familiar to anyone? They would be more durable and less likely to be susciptible to juice. Just a thought.

Halfcents---what where they used for---do you remember?---Thanks, Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

It seems to me that there are miniature ceramic heater "coils" used somewhere. I just can't place where I have seen them. Like 3mm or 4mm diameter and 1mm or 2mm thick. Does this sound familiar to anyone? They would be more durable and less likely to be susciptible to juice. Just a thought.

Worth looking into though these might be a bit slow to heat up (given that they are, I believe, a nichrome coil embedded in ceramic).

This has come up before but never progresses.

Who'd like to have a go at making one?

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Worth looking into though these might be a bit slow to heat up (given that they are, I believe, a nichrome coil embedded in ceramic).

This has come up before but never progresses.

Who'd like to have a go at making one?

Kina--I am missing something here---what are these and what are they used for?----Sun

 

[crazyhorse]

I don't remember reading about ceramic coil heaters here but the cartridge heaters discussed in an earlier thread looked interesting. Unfortunately, I don't know enough to do the math so I have no idea if they could be made to work. I especially like the 10 year potential lifespan.

SunRod 1/8" and 4mm Cartridge Heaters from Sun Electric Heater

 

[boxhead]

from cartridge heater web site, man do they have samples like TI. (orderd some bits for FREE from TI)

Increasing Surface Area to Reduce Watt-Density
1. Maximize your heater length. Increasing the length of a 1” heater to 1 ¼” (just a ¼”) can
increase the active area* by 33%, reducing power loading by 25%.
2. Consider using more heaters. Two heaters dividing the load will reduce watt-density by 50%.
3. Take advantage of any available space to install a supplemental heater. Adding a ½” long
heater to an existing 1” heater can reduce power loading by 25%.
Blood warmers used in medical theaters must never fail;
- Battery conditioners for EVA spacesuits on the International Space Station must last ten
years before replacement, due to payload costs;
- Here on earth, high throughput semiconductor chip testers must operate without
significant downtime for the 5 year life of the equipment.
For these applications, a service life of 50000 to 90000 hours is a requirement that is both
reasonable and attainable.

so two of them a atm tube, battery mod, drip like a mad man...?

 

[boxhead]

Miscellaneous
very pricey but what if we could use them?

 

[500KV]

I don't remember reading about ceramic coil heaters here but the cartridge heaters discussed in an earlier thread looked interesting. Unfortunately, I don't know enough to do the math so I have no idea if they could be made to work. I especially like the 10 year potential lifespan.

SunRod 1/8" and 4mm Cartridge Heaters from Sun Electric Heater

I emailed these folks asking for specifics on their 4MM and 1/2" 6 volt units.
D.C. resistance/wattage and unit cost.
The fact that the coil is not exposed would appear to be a definite plus.

 

[crazyhorse]

RjG has rebuilt the coils and reassembled the atty (Cigar Rebuild thread) and has some tips there.

You will doubtless find that no matter who makes it, it will have the familar problems because that is the nature of the heater wire, vaping activity (lots of heating and cooling), juices that leave a residue and able to go where it shouldn't.

Hence, though it's great to able to make replacements, it's also good to explore possible alternative designs.

I've had the front page of his thread saved on my computer since early in May and have read through the entire thread a few times. Indeed there is some good info in it. The thing about his process is it's tedious with the r&r of the metal foam but at least he gets away with a braze-free rebuild. He confirms that 38 ga nicr60 is the best choice which is something I missed until I read it again yesterday. A more robust wire would be good but #38 seems to be the only wire that fits the room vs. resistance equation. But then again, I really don't know how much wire you could realistically wind into a usable coil. Do you visualize any heavier wire as being practical?

For any realistic "quick change" scenario, I think the bridge has to go but as I said the other night, your video indicates maybe we could lose the bridge with a proper cartridge modification. Do you have any thoughts on this?

No doubt any rebuild scenario will display, at minimum, all the usual problems but a total redesign is beyond the scope of my abilities and desires. I know that's your focus and I hope you can pull it off but in the meantime, I wish you, and others, would provide input toward the design of a practical rebuild that can be quickly and easily accomplished. Such an operation would certainly provide an even shorter lifespan than a standard atomizer but at least they could be kept in service for a few pennies rather than replaced with many dollars. I know it’s a stretch but a rebuild could theoretically become the only game in town for us depending on what happens with the legal situation. Our gov’t stoops to new lows on a regular basis.

 

[kinabaloo]

One thing that occured to me today, and it is a good one, is: out of the 1 1/2 inches of nichrome, a lot is wasted just used as legs. So make the coil diameter a little bigger and slightly longer so more of the nichrome forms the coil.

 

[500KV]

Kina, Here's something you might try and post the results.
Yeah, I know. I could try it too but I don't have the lab setup you have.

Another old trick for nichrome repair is to make a paste of Borax, twist the two broken end together, and energize the circuit. A form of bond welding takes place.

Here's a "quick fix" that sometimes works for a long time and sometimes fails quickly (depending, I think, on just how old and brittle the nichrome wire is). Mix some ordinary "Boraxo" powdered hand soap with a little water to make a thick paste -- and you don't need much.

Take the broken ends of wire, bend a small loop into each, and interlock the loops so the wires stay together. Pack the Boraxo paste around the joint, and turn on the heater. Keep your eyes on that joint. As the coil heats up, the hook joint will be the worst connection, so it'll naturally get the hottest.

When it gets hot enough, the nichrome wires will melt, and, being fluxed by the borate, will fuse together into a blob. The blob, now being *larger* than the rest of the wires, will immediately cool down, and will never again get as "red hot" as the rest of the heater. Allow the coils to cool down and, using pliers, carefully crush any glassy flux deposit that remains on the joint.

If the joint doesn't behave as I describe, or if the wires are too brittle to be formed into hooks, the wires are likely too old to produce a long-lasting joint. If the joint behaves as I described, it may last for a good long time.

 

[halfcent50]

Sun Vaporer,

I don't remember where I saw or read about them. Senior moment here. :-(
I do remember that their durability was a plus for them. They may have been in the experimental stage. I have been in manufacturing all of my life, and as such read a lot of trade magazines/articles. It was probably an article in one of them. I was hoping someone here might have seen something similar. I was laid off in February, so I no longer have access to the mags. A Google search has not turned up anything yet, but it may have been a fairly obscure article.

 

[halfcent50]

My thought was that, since the wire would not be exposed, the need for the metal foam bridge might be eliminated (or improved), making for both simpler manufacturing and easier repairs. My memory (as such) is of a small disk with two wires. Assuming that I didn't just dream it. ;-)

 

[virtuetovice]

Using copper would be a very bad idea. It has very little resistance, so it would fry your battery.


I'm sitting here rebuilding an atomizer as I speak, and I'm having trouble finding information on the material the wick is made of.

And to the person who was wondering what to wrap the wire around to make a coil, I used a medium-sized sewing needle.

 

[crazyhorse]

I have some stuff I've been thinking would work for wicking. I used it years ago to replace the door gaskets on an airtight wood stove. I still have some and just dug it out to check it. It's called "Grapho-Glas" and it's made by Rutland. It's graphite impregnated fiberglass stove gasket. It comes in the form of a very soft-braid rope. It looks like continuous filament and very easy to clip off a packet of strands of any length.

I tested it in the open flame of a butane lighter. This eventually heats it red hot but it does not burn or char in any way. Within a fraction of a second after removing the flame, you cannot even tell it was heated. Not sure how high the temperature of a butane lighter would be. If you like I can put a 2000° torch on it to see what happens.

The cement that came with the gasket kit is rated to withstand 2000°. The rope itself doesn't appear to be rated.

Edit: I forgot to mention the purpose of the graphite impregnation is to help prevent the buildup of creosote on the gasket. This may make it especially appropriate for atomizer wicking since gloppage is a problem we have.

 

[HockerMagnum]

I am getting practice winding coils out of fine copper hairs 1-1/2"s long on different forms like needles, pins, various gauge wire.

Can't decide whether I want 36ga or 40ga nichrome and don't know whether special solder is needed or not.

The originals looked like 6 or 7 turns of 38ga.

I haven't found a source for that nickel foam material either.