AW IMR's -- What am i doing wrong or missing the boat on here?

[WolfeReign]

So this is day 2 of odd ball fun that i am sure i am missing something about.....

Yesterday:

Trust Fire TR-001 charger: two 16340 AW IMR batteries. Pulled them off the charger and metered at 4.44V, then volt metered them all day. In my signature you will see a video of them spiking to 6.06 volts (i tossed them outside in the dumpster at that point) -- that situation was taken care of....and not really a worry per say

Today

Got a xtar WP6II charger, used 4 spacers to charge one 16340 aw imr battery, waited for the light to turn green, pulled it off the charger, got a 4.21V reading....not too bad. Charged the second battery (as the charger came with 6 spacers, but i needed four again for a 16340)....charged the second battery, light went green, pulled it off the charger and got a 4.32V reading

To make sure it was not mt master craft volt meter, tested some trust fire's (getting a reading of 3.62V) and then the ego pass through fully charged (3.34V). Next i tested the first aw imr battery and i now get a 4.33V reading, while the second battery gives me 4.33V (just took a picture, and will include what i am getting reading wise)

Now i know better then to slide them into my mod at this point and use them, and i know i cannot say it is the charger as i just swapped them out.....so what the am i missing here? i mean to shed all doubt i will go buy a second volt meter and comare that way

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[martinc]

One can assume the batts were previously damaged from the Trustfire (overcharged)

My xtars charge at 4.19 time after time.
I also have a MP2 xtar for smaller batts (RCR123 3.0v) in which batts (previously charged in another poc) typically charge now at random values (will charge brand new still in package batts tonight and see what gives).

Its possible that your meter has an inherent reading error,gotta find what it is and substract that value from your readings but that is typically (I love that word!) usually on the ohm reading setting.

 

[WolfeReign]

sorry i will try to clarify a few things:

the trust fire charger tr-001 was tossed last night with the first damaged aw's, the x-tar was charging for the first time a brand new set of aw's, and i am still getting odd readings. I am fix'n to go to radio crap.....i mean the source (as they were re-branded) to get a new multi-meter and battery to prove more to myself that the mastercraft one i have is not at fault here. at most, i loose out on the $10 special battery the multi charger i am looking at needs....shoot, i will go buy a $10 cheap-o one down the street to make sure both settings are correct......

I am just trying to pin point what am i missing? Again i will be going to the source and getting this charger here as i cannot find out cheaper through walmart

as for the typical (ha ha) difference....i have done that test in the ohms and i get a 0.02

 

[martinc]

well,its only 0.05-0.06V diff. from stated cut-off,no biggie.

 

[markfm]

Assuming the second meter also shows high readings, maybe check the wall outlet voltage, though the power supply should handle what's going into it.

If the new oddball reading batteries are from the same place as the first ones, yet your current good trustfire batteries continue to show rational voltages, including coming off the new charger, vendor could just have a batch of gubbage batteries. I would perhaps try the trustfires for a couple hours, check them on the new charger, see if they come off as okay again (right around 4.2V).

There's nothing magic about AW IMR, they have a panasonic cell under the AW wrapper. AW counterfeiting, however, does happen, even really well-known, popular, vendors have gotten burned before. Also, even if they are indeed genuine, there could have been cruddy handling en route, pallet stored near a heat source, etc. (not the vendor's fault, other than their needing to make good if it's defective product).

Anywhere from about a 4.15 to 4.24 is pretty much "sane". Some chargers are known to show full charge a little on the low end (closer to the 4.15), which net is good for battery longevity (total number of cycles) though runtime per cycle will be a bit less. 4.2V is the sweet spot "nominal" full charge. If you see 4.25+ it is time to consider switching batteries or charger -- something is running out of spec. 4.3+ really ought not be occuring.

 

[Riverboat]

I use to have a Trustfire charger, had the same problem, over charged batteries. I put the big bucks out for a Pila charger.
Worth every penny IMO.. Have had it for 1.5 years now and batteries come off at 4.2 every time....

 

[markfm]

Problem is the trustfire charger was charging other batteries okay (it appears).

That's why I suggested checking the new charger with other batteries -- the XTAR chargers are also very good (especially for half what Pila costs )

 

[ChellyNelly]

Constantine it really seems to me from talking to you yesterday that the batteries are crap.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997R using Tapatalk 2

 

[Spac]

Don't toss anything out. I'll pm you later. If you're around this weekend, I'll stop by with my meter and some more batteries and well figure this out for ya.

 

[martinc]

Another reason to use protected batteries (with inherent overcharge protection circuit);I have IMRs,but I somehow dont trust they are THAT better given the fact they have no protection.

I got nothing bad to say about my protected ones,I have several and switch them after 4-5 hrs of vaping anyways (from 4.2 to 3.6 usually).

Intertubes hype

 

[Pipeous]

sounds like the charger is overcharging. doesn't really matter what batteries. if they come off too high of a voltage then the charger isn't shutting off early enough

 

[Riverboat]

Problem is the trustfire charger was charging other batteries okay (it appears).

That's why I suggested checking the new charger with other batteries -- the XTAR chargers are also very good (especially for half what Pila costs )

I agree about the XTARs.... I just love the way the Pila looks....

 

[markfm]

Flaky high readings really can be battery rather than charger, if the cell is hosed. Been there, done that, have a charger that's been rock solid for ages, one new battery came off way high, every other battery before and since has been fine. The battery was the problem, I did meter things thoroughly.

AW IMRs do have low internal resistance, and there are notes that some older chargers can have difficulty with charging to too high a voltage, but I haven't seen the trustfire chargers mentioned in this context (as a matter of fact ProVape references using the tr-001 for AW high drain batteries with the Provari), and certainly not new xtar chargers.

 

[WolfeReign]

~update~

ok, so i thought i would try the minimalist approach .....

~Volt Meters~ Canadian (crappy) tire master craft (MC) , then got the source's (TS) electronic one:

MC: testing the saber for the set voltage i got 4.24V
TS: I got 4.19
Ok, so i have a 0.05V difference

MC: testing pass through: 3.46V
TS: testing pass through 3.28V
this is a bigger jump with a difference of .18V

MC: with a trust fire battery: 3.17V
TS: with trust fire battery: 3.04V
a difference of 0.13V

MC: with one aw imr: 4.29V
TS: with one aw imr: 4.15V
a difference of 0.14V

To make sure that the MC volt neter has not gone wonky, or the charger, i am charger (like markfm said) a trust fire battery which will be the "control". If both meter's register the trust fire as being higher then 4.2~4.24V then the issue is the charger. to make this a fair fight, i will borrow the neighbors trust fire tr-001 and charge the other trust fire, thus knowing what is going on, and if i just bought myself another volt meter or if i am planning on doing a return at the source with it

 

[WolfeReign]

~update my final and testing done one~

I have taken the time to charge a trust fire (flame jacket) on the x-tar, and another on a tr-001 (borrowed), i went and bought a nextech volt meter that required a special A28 12V battery....below is what i have found between the Master Craft (MC) and the radio shack (which is known as the source here in Canada but i like typing RS) here is the results i found:

First we have the AW's test that where charged previously:
MC: 4.20V
RS: 4.15V
I decided to put them in the mod, use it twice for long toot's of a v510, then fired for 30 seconds twice to take a reading of what the mod was set to on both the meters, then i took the AW's out and tested
MC:4.18V
RS: 4.11V

Hmm that seemed a bit odd to me that the MC would show only a .2V change while the RS shown a .4V change, that did not seem right to me....

Trust Fire 16340 battery right off the X-tar charger:
MC:4.21V
RS: 4.16V
This is where i raised an eyebrow and had to wonder even thought the x-tar wp6II was using the pulse method to recharge the trust fire as that is what it was meant to do, i find it hard to think it would come off the x-tar as 4.16V (but that is just me)

Now, what i found odd was that both chargers were plugged in at the same time, and though both trust fires had a 3.23V charge in them both, the tr-001 took 3 hours longer to charge...either way

Trust fire 16340 straight off the old charger:
MC: was giving me a -1 which means a error. took me a few times of removing the leads, then plugging them back in, turning the MC on and off, i saw the trust fire reading go to 9.76V call me silly but at that high there would have been serious boomage, so i waited for the MC to reset itself no clue why there was this sudden spike.

MC: 4.35V (i realize this is a false reading, as i have no idea why it read this, it was like before i tested it was picking up electricity in the air...very odd)
RS: 4.1V/4.2V (it fluttered between the two)

one hour after i last checked the AW's and for sheer giggles i volt tested them again:
MC: 4.20V
RS: 4.11V/4.12V (it bounced between the two)

Now just to make sure it was not the batteries i checked the mod to see what voltage it was set at:
MC: 4.35
RS: 4.24
This is what got me, as when i set the mod to 4.24 using the MC, i attacked a v510, and stardust and all was fine. Now at this setting the stardust has no flavor and the v510 has a slight burnt taste in it, telling me the voltage was way to high.

So what i am thinking and i am asking actually as i could be wrong here, but the x-tar is better for the aw's and trust fires to charge, while the tr-001 for what ever reason charges slower.....

Also i have found using the stardust on the mod powered by AW's does not drive or hit as well as when i put the trust fire's inside. Also for what ever reason that the MC did a spaz out, i am thinking i should be trusting the readings i am getting on it, and i am also assuming that from yesterday's testing fiscal and error on the bad AW's the fuse inside the MC is a bit off, and that i can also safely assume a swift return of the nextech is in my immediate future.

 

[TommyGunBC]

IMO your going overboard charge the batteries and vape don't get bent out of shape about it

 

[ChellyNelly]

IMO your going overboard charge the batteries and vape don't get bent out of shape about it

There is obviously something very wrong and he doesn't want to end up with half a face just to save a little time or worry. Dude, if I have any advice for you it's to get more bent out of shape about it. This stuff can be really dangerous.

 

[WolfeReign]

don't get bent out of shape about it

MUST be true Canuck fan ( could not resists, as i am a fan as well )

As for the rest of it, i just posted some great information on multi meters to begin with, and it would seem the nextech is a give or take value of .8V (which is rather steep for me), while the master craft has a give or take value or .1V.

This being said, i have since removed the plastic around the prongs that go into the multi meter, as A) they seemed to be creating static which was throwing off my readings B) the negative lead was not fitting all the way in side, hence throwing me off C) since the last AW incident they were acting as a satellite dish for static in the air to give a reading (figured this out when my eyebrows were 3.9V while my nose was 6.5V and you do NOT want to know what a toot was)

when it came to the chargers i noticed something different there as well, and was doing some homework....while the trustfire tr-001 is a great charger (the first one i had not so much), it takes about 3X's longer to charge a battery(ies) then the Xtar WP6II. It would seem as i got close enough to listen the Xtar gives a pulsing charge to the battery, which so far i can gather in reading that this allows for a more fully charged battery/prolongs battery life.

lastly i can say that when i set the mod to 4.24V and put a stardust on with RY4 100%VG, there is little to no taste nor throat hit, while putting in the trust fire (fire jacket) batteries seem to drive the start dust to the point i have wonderful flavor and throat hit. This leads me to believe that though AW's would be chemically safer then a protected battery, they should only be used if you have dual carts (and seeing as i have a SR dual cart here i will be running that test shortly to see if i am correct in this assumption)

This is all rather funny as anything to me, (a refresher for those that do not know) i got a pass through in January that i cursed and swore at for the longest time, But seeing as i can use a star dust (granted i need to use a 510 to ego adapter), a boge, v510, kanger, ego c.....they all seem to hit harder and produce better vapor on that cursed pass through then they do on a recently purchased joye ego-t (branded) 650mah pass through.

In a sense your right Tommy, i should not get bent out of shape about it, and just vape on the go, but on the same token everything is a learning curve. With the information i am learning now, and going further into, there might come a time either here on the forums were i can give that information back and help someone, or it will be in person i mean being a Canuck fan i already learned to have patients and that good things must come to those that wait

 

[deach]

I can only say I have 4 of those trustfire chargers and they all charge IMR or protected to 4.21 volts... This is tested on a fluke miltimeter. I also have three friends that have them and they all ckeched with different multimeters (all higher end like the fluke) and their readings were similar (within a couple hundredths of a volt)...

Sorry I cannot input further but, I don't think I'd immediately discount the trustfire, there's a lot of them in service and working fine.

I'd definitely keep an eye on them though, in the issue of batteries it ALWAYS pays to check and be safe.

 

[WolfeReign]

I can only say I have 4 of those trustfire chargers and they all charge IMR or protected to 4.21 volts... This is tested on a fluke miltimeter. I also have three friends that have them and they all ckeched with different multimeters (all higher end like the fluke) and their readings were similar (within a couple hundredths of a volt)...

Sorry I cannot input further but, I don't think I'd immediately discount the trustfire, there's a lot of them in service and working fine.

I'd definitely keep an eye on them though, in the issue of batteries it ALWAYS pays to check and be safe.

very true, and like i said it could be when i noticed that when i use the AW's with star dust, kanger, boge i find i get less umm hit? action? I am curious to know if the AW's are somehow under powering the single coils (seeing as AW's are high drain batteries and suited for dual coils)?

One thing right now that is really cheesing me off is that the Master Craft did a reading on the trustfire's i am using right now with 22.8V reading while the nextech had a calm 4.06V reading (i figured the 22.8V was incorrect as i would have seen/felt some kind of physical output)

In talking to spac, he said he would help me out finding which one is closer to a real reading (be it master craft or the radio shack) in the mean time the only other thing i cann think of is when my Jugz'0'matic Pistol Grip VV Mod from jugheads comes in (later this morning -- so says the tracking info), i have noticed many people say when you set it either to 3.7V, 5V or 6V it is a solid and true 3.7/5/6V so i can try to meter those and see what i could up with, and which every one is closer (the master craft or nextech) at least i will know which one i can put some faith in for now