Baby steps....

[pennysmalls]

Ok, I've been browsing the DIY forum for a while and I've decided to dip my toes into the world of DIY e-juice. One small step at a time for me though. I browsed through the suppliers section here at ECF and spotted just one DIY supplier. They sell a kit that looks like it would be perfect for a first timer, complete with instructions.

The DIY Flavor Artisan's Master Kit - One Stop DIY Shop Store

Yay? Nay?

It looks like half of the mixing is already done for you, so I figured this would be an easy first attempt. I've never done this before though so I have no idea if there would be any cons as to using this as my first attempt. Would you guys recommend this type of thing for a first timer?

 

[DeeDee1234]

Negatives: Well. It's a little on the high side, price wise.
You only get either plain pg or vg. You need both.
Is 8 flavors enough? Maybe? I am not good at limiting my flavor choices, bad person to ask. You could prolly get several juices from 8 flavors, if you are very carefull choosing them.

Good points: They let you choose 36 or 48 mg/ml nic and also either 50/50 pg/vg or PG carrier base.
With the kit they may limit you from going nuts buying everything

The half the mixing comment: NO, You still need to mix your juice to the final target strength

My Advise:

Read everything you can
Read Hooiser's Blogs, twice
Download e juice me up- Play with the calulator and learn how it works and how changing the ratio's PG/VG changes the numbers, Nic values,ect
Get 1 ml syringes
Get plenty of small bottles, NO really more than that Order more.
Don't forget your additives, em sweetner, lemon, ect.
Read more


Go for it, Have fun

 

[pennysmalls]

Thank you DeeDee! I didn't catch that, the missing PG or VG in that kit. I thought maybe I'd get this kit to "play" around with while I research and learn. I hadn't heard of Hoosier's Blog, so thanks for that as well, very helpful! I was a bit leery about getting into this because I'm the type that really throws myself into stuff once I get started. There will be no going back, ya'll have no idea.

I think I'll use this thread for any more questions that I have as I go along instead of starting new threads. At least for a while.

 

[Hoosier]

Eh, I'd have a problem with the final nic being in the 24-34mg/ml range. That's just too much of a swing for me, but that's assuming you use the "flavor it yourself" approach. Some folks don't have any issue with various nicotine ranges for their vapes, but I've found I can't vape that way.

I also couldn't manage mixing with dripping pipettes without a graduated cylinder to calibrate them to the various liquids anymore....even though that was the way I started mixing...difficulties reproducing a recipe every time drove me away from that method and I had to redo all the recipes I developed during my drip to measure days.

I'm not sure how much of my mixing bias really means though, so let's throw the above out...

Don't know how good the instructions are, but that is a nice touch.

Yes, it will get you started. If you discover you like mixing, there are many ways to upgrade from various suppliers.

The one issue I see is that there are quite a few flavors in the list that can be real bugger-bears to work with even for a seasoned mixer...

 

[pennysmalls]

Thanks for chiming in Hoosier. I prefer 18 mg/ml of nicotine so that would not work for me either. I'll have to think about this some more.

As far as the flavors go, I'm reading that it's best for beginners to start with a one flavor juice recipe. Would some of those flavors on that site still be buggers if just one is being used? Versus mixing flavors? I wouldn't want to try out any flavors that give no hope for any kind of success.

 

[Hoosier]

Yep, some of those flavorings are bugger-bears even by themselves. Key Lime Pie is a good example from that list.

You could always get 18mg/ml unflavored nicotine and some syringes from a number of vendors. Then head over to the Capella's site and grab a bottle of Sweet Tangerine. Throw 8.5ml of the 18mg/ml into a bottle with 1.5ml of Cap's Sweet Tangerine, cap, and shake. You'd have about a 15mg/ml very vapable juice with a nice orange flavor. (Or grab a bottle of 36mg/ml unflavored nicotine, a bottle of USP VG, and the same flavoring and use 5ml of 36mg/ml, 3.5ml of VG, and 1.5ml Cap's Sweet Tangerine and have 18mg/ml of a nice orange flavor with 65/35 PG/VG)

I usually recommend Cap's flavors to new mixers because they usually avoid levels 7 & 8 from my flavoring levels blog. This makes it a bit easier for a new mixer as they don't hit flavoring levels that tend to be confusing.

Since the point is to have fun and make good vapable juice, Cap's does help to make that easier. Once you get your feet you can try Key Lime Pie, or whatever strikes your fancy and you'll learn even more.

 

[pennysmalls]

Thank you! I like fruity juices! Heading to Capella's site now to check things out!

 

[FACE MEAT]

Hoosier speaks the truth. On his recommendation, I got myself some Capellas Sweet Tangerine and mixed a batch at 15%. It's freakin' phenomenal.

 

[pennysmalls]

Ok, so if I'm understanding correctly when ordering nicotine/base the only reason a person would order 100 mg/ml would be to have the container of nic last longer because you would need to use less. Ordering a lower mg/ml, say 18, makes it easier to calculate the amounts used, especially if it's mixed with just PG or VG. Correct? So when I do place an order, since I'm shooting for a level of 18, it would be easier to use the 18 mg/ml base. But I would run out faster. So I basically need to decide if it's price over convenience right?

 

[calsax]

You are basically correct. However, if you like a consistent level of nic, working from a higher percent base and mixing carefully will give you greater consistency. I started (and still use) 100 mg nic (pg based), pure pg and vg, and mix it down to my level (currently 12mg/ml). I also agree that Capella's is the easiest flavoring to use, although I also use a lot of Flavor Apprentice. And of all the Capella's, I think the Sweet Tangerine is the best. Try it with some of their Lemon Merangue Pie for an absolutely awesome bakery treat!!!!!

 

[SonHouse]

It's also easier to mix down in strength than up! One more thing the higher concentration nic gives you is the ability to mix a greater range of PG/VG combinations. If you're mixing with 100 mg/ml nic in straight VG, and you want 25 mg/ml juice you can have your VG% anywhere from 25% to 100%. If you start with a 36 mg/ml nic, you are limited to 67% VG and up for your mix.

 

[DeeDee1234]

It's also easier to mix down in strength than up! One more thing the higher concentration nic gives you is the ability to mix a greater range of PG/VG combinations. If you're mixing with 100 mg/ml nic in straight VG, and you want 25 mg/ml juice you can have your VG% anywhere from 25% to 100%. If you start with a 36 mg/ml nic, you are limited to 67% VG and up for your mix.

The pg./vg ratio can be a large factor in determining what strength to buy,which alot of newbie over look. House is correct....


What ratio do you prefer? Inless u are a high vg person, i like nic in pg because its easier to work with.

My favorite Capella is vannilla custard. Its a nice mixer to give a creamy custard note.

The choices of flavors and combination are endless. Vaping a new mix called grape ape now, still a work in progress

 

[SonHouse]

The pg./vg ratio can be a large factor in determining what strength to buy,which alot of newbie over look. House is correct....


What ratio do you prefer? Inless u are a high vg person, i like nic in pg because its easier to work with.

My favorite Capella is vannilla custard. Its a nice mixer to give a creamy custard note.

The choices of flavors and combination are endless. Vaping a new mix called grape ape now, still a work in progress

That's one of those subjective calls. I go with the 100% VG base. I usually mix somewhere around 60% VG / 40% PG so with flavors it gets me closer to the ballpark. My biggest reason for going with it though is I love vapor so there will always be VG in my mixes. Can't say the same about PG.

 

[savagemann]

I personally like to use 100mg nic.
It's really easy to get an exact ratio.
There are extra precautions to take when handling nicotine, especially higher levels.
I wear rubber gloves and safety glasses.
I have had a juice accident before. Thank goodness it was with a premixed 10mg juice and not straight 100mg.
I was filling a 5ml bottle of a juice I made to give to a friend.
Squeezing it out from a 30ml bottle.
I guess I squeezed a little too hard and the drip nozzle launched out of the bottle and juice went everywhere.
Onto my arms, legs and even in my face.
Luckily I keep a saline eye wash near my sink. Went straight for holding my eyes closed. Rinsed my face, then did the eye wash.
When I'm working with nic mixing juices, I do everything very slow and methodical now.
I wipe everything off between each step, and try to be very mindful of getting "flingy" with things.

 

[pennysmalls]

You are basically correct. However, if you like a consistent level of nic, working from a higher percent base and mixing carefully will give you greater consistency. I started (and still use) 100 mg nic (pg based), pure pg and vg, and mix it down to my level (currently 12mg/ml). I also agree that Capella's is the easiest flavoring to use, although I also use a lot of Flavor Apprentice. And of all the Capella's, I think the Sweet Tangerine is the best. Try it with some of their Lemon Merangue Pie for an absolutely awesome bakery treat!!!!!

I'm getting excited to try this out! So your saying a lower nic base can make it harder to achieve the nic level you're aiming for? Correct?

 

[pennysmalls]

It's also easier to mix down in strength than up! One more thing the higher concentration nic gives you is the ability to mix a greater range of PG/VG combinations. If you're mixing with 100 mg/ml nic in straight VG, and you want 25 mg/ml juice you can have your VG% anywhere from 25% to 100%. If you start with a 36 mg/ml nic, you are limited to 67% VG and up for your mix.

Ah, that hadn't occurred to me. So because one would be using less of the nic base that allows for more experimentation with different percentages of the remaining ingredients. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[pennysmalls]

The pg./vg ratio can be a large factor in determining what strength to buy,which alot of newbie over look. House is correct....


What ratio do you prefer? Inless u are a high vg person, i like nic in pg because its easier to work with.

My favorite Capella is vannilla custard. Its a nice mixer to give a creamy custard note.

The choices of flavors and combination are endless. Vaping a new mix called grape ape now, still a work in progress

I actually haven't settled on a preferred ratio yet. I've tried 70/30, 60/40 and 50/50 from vendors and didn't really appreciate one as being better than the other. I would like to try a high VG juice one day soon. I'm thinking of trying out for a 70/30 blend when I'm ready only because I'm reading that pg holds flavor better and flavor is more important to me than vapor production.

When you say you prefer nic in pg because it's easier to work with do you mean it's easier for mixing purposes? Or do you mean something else?

 

[Hoosier]

I'm getting excited to try this out! So your saying a lower nic base can make it harder to achieve the nic level you're aiming for? Correct?

Sure...we use mg/ml for nicotine content. Milligrams per milliliter. If you have more milligrams then you have greater freedom with what you do with your remaining milliliters. It's pretty straightforward diluting down to your target mg/ml, but how much of the diluting ml's are flavoring and what final PG/VG ratio? If your nicotine base is 3/4 of your mix and your flavoring is only 10%, then you only have 15% of the final to play with your PG/VG ratio. And if the flavoring gets to 20% then you only have 5% left.

Starting close to your target nic does mean there is less to worry about. You can't really say, "I'm going to try this as 80/20 and 50/50 PG/VG and see which works best for my vape and equipment.", so the PG/VG ratio concern is thrown right out the window. You can't really do much adjusting of it, you just go with taste and leave it at that. There is nothing wrong with going this route though.

Folks can start one way and then end up going another, but thinking of what you want to do with your mixing is important to determining how you equip yourself to start mixing.

 

[Renolizzie]

I would just like to add that you can get nic in lower concentrations and still mix down to your preferred mg. I like using 60mg nic because I don't like the idea of using stronger nic. I still use gloves and work with it carefully since 60mg is still pretty strong. With 60mg I can mix down to 24mg nic for in the mornings, 18mg for most of the time and 12 mg for in the evening when I am overdoing the vaping and watching TV.

I like the flexibility of DIY.

 

[pennysmalls]

Thank you Hoosier and Renolizzie for the tips. I've been looking at nic/base at different sites and haven't decided for sure yet but I'm leaning toward purchasing the 100mg/ml. I can buy a smaller bottle which would be easier for me to store.

One thing I read here last night that has me curious. A poster mentioned sampling your juice before adding the nic/base and the reason for doing so would be so that you can test the juice for taste and if it tastes bad and you end up throwing it out you won't waste the nic which is the more expensive component. Made total sense to me but then I got to wondering. If the taste is good pre-nic wouldn't adding the nic/pg or nic/vg end up changing the taste? Especially if one is using a lower mg of nic per ml in the base? I thought that idea was just great but am thinking that would really only work if one is using a higher mg/ml of nic/base. Correct? This is something I'm taking into consideration before I decide on what level of nic/base I'll be ordering.