Bad news article on E-Cigs

[maxx]

I just had a brief email with the FDA spokesperson mention in the article, Siobhan DeLancey...

I wanted to know where his study report is that says the side effects mentioned are caused by e-cigs and not by something else (like smoking cessation). Once he found out I wasn't a member of the press, he blew me off to some consumer affairs dept. Yet THIS is the person quoted.

So...the FDA can make unsubstantiated claims...but E-cig vendors cannot. Check....got it....

 

[Taurox]

I don't know about the validity of the e-cigs part, it could be true. You gotta figure if they have the money to blow, then most likely their parents aren't available themselves. So... the parents assume money=love and presto. The girls are upset at the lack of attention from their parents, no matter what they do. So, they decide that smoking could be a viable source of concern for their parents. Which would result in their parents being mad and giving them attention. However, seeing that they are little princesses they decide to go the electronic cigarette route. Instead of toughing it out like the rest of us and killing some lungs.

Either way you spin it, it isn't good. I actually had some woman who was a smoker, light up in front of me and say "I heard those weren't safe or good for you." Really? I tried not to laugh, I really really tried. Most people <not us> don't research or investigate things on their own unless it directly concerns themselves. Unless you are a geek like me and look up stuff in the middle of watching a movie. They will get their information from the news. The news will spin the information anyway they can to get as many people to watch. BTW something you are doing right now is killing your kids. More at 11.

We are all on borrowed time. Live it up and stock! stock! stock!!...

 

[Arthur Dent]

This is a really poorly done hit piece. Parts even sound made up, "It's very grown-up, you know?" Does that sound like something a 14 yr old kid would say? And I've never known kids that age to have a problem getting a hold of tobacco if they wanted it. Very sketchy in my opinion.

 

[WOW]

I would think it's a heck of a lot more dangerous to live in a society that (FWIW) "interviews" two 'real' 11 yr old girls, travelling unsupervised and doesn't stop them from getting back on their ride home to have the police call their parents!

But, website advertising, when the technology is there for parents to block web access to their kids, is responsible? $140 kits they were also getting for their friends? Totally bogus, hype to get more people on Chantix, etc...

We'd all be "healthier", of course, if we didn't eat, drink, smoke, drive, cross the street...etc., etc. but, we'd fail to be American.

Let's hope those girls were make-believe or the person who sold them their boarding pass should be hung, next to the interviewer who let them out of sight.

It's all hype to stir up controversy that is going to make kids more aware and want to try e-cigs, which would give the FDA more leaway to promote what will end in even higher taxation of e-cigs. By that time, good kids might be tempted to steal or hurt someone to try them. Of course, it's all in the name of science - dumb down people and they'll agree to all this bs 'for the kids'. It's not 'for the kids'. Federal Law already prohibits these from being sold to minors but they're still studying whether or not the public believes it.

Kinda scary that our future is the hands of a fringe group of citizens who have been living under a rock for over 60 years.

Here's a tad more about my opinion on these panic-articles:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vapor4life/120653-cease-desisit-letters-ecig-suppliers.html

 

[jtcaseyjr]

There are actually 2 articles and they are both utter garbage. I said in another thread that reporters don't do investigative reporting anymore and this article proves my point. They took the FDA at it's word with out question, but the ONE person he talked too about E-cigarettes, made him out to be shady and misleading. This is mainstream media for you. This is why were going to lose this battle I hate to say. The public not only reads, but believes this junk and we are going to end up paying the price for it. Doesn't matter that it actually helps us, we feel better and it has to be healthier to vape these then smoke the 4000 chemical cigarette.

The reason Why smoking is so regulated and why there are indoor bans and high taxes is for these reasons:

1.) Big tobacco did not have science on their side
2.) FDA putting out information to the public that cigarettes are bad
3.) Public outcry because of FDA reports

Why vaping will be banned or heavily regulated:

1.) We have no science on our side
2.) FDA spreading information that vaping is bad
3.) Public will begin to outcry that Vaping should be banned, because of FDA reports

Look Similar, its because it is. Only difference is FDA had good science verified independently that Smoking was harmful. The FDA has no science this time, but acting as if they did.

 

[jtcaseyjr]

I Just sent this letter to The reporter who did the article. I posted this in another thread also talking about the article too, I will let you know if he actually responds to it:

Hello Mr. Schneider,

I am writing this in response to your articles regarding E-cigarettes. I am not an owner of a company or representative of one either, just a normal everyday user of the devices. I should start by mentioning I smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day and smoked for 22 years, I am 40 years old. I have not smoked a regular "Analog" cigarette since May 15th 2010. The rising cost of cigarettes drove me to find some way to quit smoking them.

What I am writing about today is your very disappointing article regarding E-cigarettes. Disappointing because it is written with much bias and contempt. It really seems to me you have something against these, without actually knowing much about them. Also it seems to me that you were either unwilling or unable to confront the FDA on what little evidence they have against E-cigarettes. Would you Mr. Schneider prefer that I went back to my 2 pack a day habit, that actually was not only harmful to me, but to those around me and to the public at large? The FDA has no evidence that E-cigarettes are harmful and they have been around almost 7 years. I am not going to sit here and say the E-cigarette industry does not need some work, as it does. However you’re calling for an outright ban because Canada did it, without even knowing any facts? What kind of journalism is that?

I have noticed a trend in the media lately and unfortunately Mr. Schneider you fall into this category. The media seems to have forgotten how to do real investigative reporting instead they rely on what the Government tells them and put in their own bias opinions. Underneath your name on the AOL News site it says "A two-time Pulitzer winner, Andrew is an investigative reporter" What investigation did you actually do? From what I read not a whole lot. You watched some kids buy E-cigarettes which are bad from a Kiosk vendor and you spoke with one Guy. That's terrible reporting. Have you checked out any of the people that use these things? Have you tried places like http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com, According to some estimates there are 26,000 members, all of whom use E-cigarettes or any other similar places as there are many?

Mr. Schneider I am not asking that you write a glowing article about E-cigarettes, what I am asking is that you do what it says you do, and get down and really investigate this. Stop taking the FDA line and find out for yourself what the truth is Good or bad. As it stands your articles were as I said biased and full of hyperbole designed to create fear in the general public. The reason why the poll you showed has the numbers it does, is because journalists like yourself have just been reporting the FDA line, and that to me Mr. Schneider is just bad reporting.

Sincerely,

James T Casey Jr.

 

[Puffice]

This is such hog wash, I have not have one of those symptoms they have listed and have been vaping quite a bit for almost a year now. Not to mention that every medication that I have purchased over the last 15 years states that medication may cause those type of side effects but yet their still sold. I can see regulating the age limit but the rest is just all about the money and wanting a piece of the pie.:

Your Kids Buy E-Cigs; Do You Know What's in Them?

"FDA is aware of reports of short-term side effects from the use of electronic cigarettes, including racing pulse, dizziness, slurred speech, mouth ulcers, heartburn, coughing, ........ and sore throat," FDA spokeswoman Siobhan DeLancey told AOL News. She added that the agency doesn't know how common or potentially serious these effects may be.

The composition and toxicity of the flavoring agents worry some with expertise in the field. One physician who for years has studied the damaging effects of the butter flavoring diacetyl in microwave popcorn factory workers and consumers told AOL News he is concerned about the use of the substance in e-cigarette flavorings.

"It's criminal to allow diacetyl and other untested flavoring agents to be used in these devices," said Dr. David Egilman, clinical associate professor at Brown University's Department of Family Medicine. "At the very least, it's not smart to intentionally inhale substances which have been proven to cause irreversible lung disease that has and can kill you."

For about 10 years, Egilman has served as an expert witness in scores of cases of people allegedly harmed by diacetyl.

 

[WOW]

That is so cool! Good on you, JTC, Jr.!!!!

I hope Mr. Schneider will join ECF so he can understand the difference, first hand, between vapers and vipers and we might have the pleasure of reading some American event-specific/Cronkite/US-style journalism vs sensationalistic 'news', for a change.

 

[jtcaseyjr]

I received a reply:

Mr. Casey,

Thank you so much for the well-thought-out note.

I appreciate your position and would never suggest, you, nor I, nor anyone else start smoking again.

You and I will differ on how I approached the stories and I won't waste your time trying to debate the topic.

Just one point, if I may. For example, I did discuss that the Canadians had banned the devices. I never suggested FDA do the same.

Again, thanks

Andrew Schneider

I then replied back with this:

Mr. Schneider,

Thank you for your quick response to my email. My concern Mr. Schneider is the very one sided reporting that I am see regarding E-cigarettes. Again I am not going to tell you they are 100% safe, nor would I want my 13 year old daughter ever to use one. But if you actually talked to some E-cigarette users you would see that, what you saw was NOT the norm. I would like to see the FDA grilled a little more as to why they are so against these, with little proof of any harmful effects. The effects you mention are common to anyone who uses Nicotine and or Nicotine withdrawl. How can they pinpoint E-cigarette usage as the cause of these effects.

One more point, I will agree that you did not out right call for a ban per say however and I qoute"

"Health Canada had no more information than the FDA does on these products, but last year the Canadian agency ordered that "persons importing, advertising or selling electronic cigarette products in Canada must stop doing so immediately" because they "may pose health risks and have not been fully evaluated for safety, quality and efficacy" by the agency.

"The prohibition on these electronic cigarettes still stands," Health Canada spokesman Gary Scott Holub told AOL News this week.

If the Canadians could do it, why not U.S. regulators?"

If you were objectively reading that, wouldn't you think the person writing wanted a ban? Again I want to thank you for taking the time to reply. My hope is that you might take a second look at this industry and press the FDA a little more, so that all of us can have facts. As long as it is fair and objective I will take good or bad.

Sincerely

James T Casey Jr.

 

[WOW]

We were posting simultaneously but, I still would welcome Mr. Schneider to join ECF and listen to vapers personal physician observations (they don't advocate e-cigs, btw but they do have the ability to monitor health and health changes) [my recent health issues are totally unrelated to e-cigs, analogs, or anything similar].

I still want to know how he wrote that and missed the story of two minors crossing state lines without a legal guardian in the commission of a crime and just who he thinks is responsible for that, why they got away with it, what happened to the parents, when this occurred and where they are now. (the 5 w's of investigative journalism + the how) That'd be news.

And, on a lighter note, since he responded super fast (i can't wait to learn how he responds to your 2nd e-mail, JTC, Jr.!) I'd like to ask him if he could investigate who was behind giving the title of "Surgeon General" to someone who is neither a surgeon or a General? j/k

 

[WOW]

JTC Jr. - your follow-up e-mail is clear and to the point. It just occurred to me, though, he might not respond because he'd have to admit Pulitzer Prizes are based on sensationalistic journalism vs investigative reporting and he'd be the first to do that.

MSM won't acknowledge as long as they truly believe the majority of society is interested in reading fiction over fact and purchases newspapers based on that assumption. He'd feel he was killing his own career and as a sole spokesperson against MSM. He'd get banned from being being published. It's not like we have Bernstein & Woodward style journalistic concern these days but it's exactly what society wants. I don't know where that changed and you asked great questions....maybe he'll hang around since you gave him the link then again, I'm such a hopeless optimist that there's a journalist in the MSM that concerned, it's sickening.

I don't think you opened a debate with him on his style of writing but the content, raising concerns over the article's validity being unbiased and panic inducing.

Kudos for getting the right msg to the right person and I really hope you get a reply and/or he updates his AOL story.

I still hope he hangs around ECF though, especially the CASAA forum.

 

[bpaulette]

You know, the more I think about it, the more this guy pisses me off.

He's not really investigating anything, he's just selling fear. He doesn't mention anyone actually harmed by e-cigarettes, because he can't find any. In fact, ALL of his stories are very clearly biased against the products he's looking at, even when there's zero evidence to back it up. And the reason is extremely simple. Like everything else, for this reporter, its all about money. He has a financial interest in raising red flags about anything he can, as early as possible. Then, later, if it all blows over or turns out to be nothing, no big loss - but if it does turn out to be extremely harmful, he says "I told you so", looks like a hero and gets a pulitzer, and then he writes a book about it and sells it on ColdTruth dot com.

Its not in his best interests, financially speaking, to say "You know, I've looked into this, and although some of these vendors do seem kind of shady, I can't for the life of me find A SINGLE PERSON who's been killed from e-cigarette use". That kind of story wouldn't make him a dime. Pulitzers aren't given to people who reach a dead end.

He's most likely hoping and praying that we ALL suddenly die from these, so that he can make a bundle telling everyone how right he was - and until then, he and others like him will continue to spread fear in hopes that they can eventually be proven right.

 

[jaspry]

Wait, I'm pretty new to this topic. Diacetyl? Is that like Propelyne Glycerine?

Is Diacetyl a component of all e-cigs, or just a flavoring used in some?

I didn't know e-cigs had more than flavoring and PG/VG/Nic?

 

[JDiz150]

The link to this article was posted on Fox News main page today:
Your Kids Buy E-Cigs; Do You Know What's in Them?

I e-mailed the lady and gave her what for!

To: bmack@wbtv.com

"Did you seriously just go buy a starter kit and give your opinion on it? Did you do any research at all? Just look at the comments people left! They know more than you do. Where did you go to school because your reporting is embarrassing! Go interview a doctor, ask people who have used the product, contact the people who make the product, and don't buy an e-cig from one company and use it as a comparison to all e-cigs. You are doing cigarette smokers everywhere an injustice by telling them lies. I hope you can sleep at night knowing you could have saved a lot of lives with your story, but instead you convinced people that they should keep smoking regular cigarettes. I hope you take you job as a reporter seriously and do a followup on this story with more accurate FACTS. "

 

[bpaulette]

Wait, I'm pretty new to this topic. Diacetyl? Is that like Propelyne Glycerine?

Is Diacetyl a component of all e-cigs, or just a flavoring used in some?

I didn't know e-cigs had more than flavoring and PG/VG/Nic?

No, its not a component in all e-cigs, and nothing like propylene glycol or vegetable glycerine, its a chemical used in SOME flavorings (primarily buttery flavorings). Was found to be dangerous to inhale in very large quantities, and most food and flavoring companies replaced it with substitute chemicals (but the safety of the substitutes was the subject of his article on that matter). Thats the nutshell version - not exactly the topic at hand here - Google is your friend

 

[bpaulette]

I e-mailed the lady and gave her what for!

I'm lost - what lady are you talking about writing to? The guy who wrote this article is named Andrew Schneider

 

[maxx]

Tobacco Harm Reduction's response to this article:

Worst e-cigarette article to date? And from a two time Pulitzer winner « Tobacco Harm Reduction: News & Opinions

 

[JDiz150]

I'm lost - what lady are you talking about writing to? The guy who wrote this article is named Andrew Schneider

The lady who did the video story.

 

[jaspry]

No, its not a component in all e-cigs, and nothing like propylene glycol or vegetable glycerine, its a chemical used in SOME flavorings (primarily buttery flavorings). Was found to be dangerous to inhale in very large quantities, and most food and flavoring companies replaced it with substitute chemicals (but the safety of the substitutes was the subject of his article on that matter). Thats the nutshell version - not exactly the topic at hand here - Google is your friend

Thanks for that information! I did Google the diacetyl and found mentions of concerns regarding butter popcorn flavoring, however I wanted more clarification in regards to its relation to e-cigs, which you gratefully provided me with.

I understand that various flavorings will find their flavor in different chemical substitutes. Back in the day I had harsh reactions to cappuccino flavorings, which I assumed was a reaction to a certain chemical in the cappuccino. Ideally I would enjoy having a list of 'safe' flavorings though that would be the product of much testing, which at the moment is very limited.

I even believed myself to have a reaction to PG at one point which caused me to switch to VG. Though after running out of VG stock, I switched back to PG and find myself regularly vaping it with no ill-reaction at all. Confusing as it may be, I find great peace in confidence that these devices are worlds safer than traditional analog methods!

Bad media stigma turning people away by the droves, people who listen to media as an authority. I really can't wait til there are more positive studies done!

 

[Taurox]

Is that the 8th grade girl in the picture, wearing a eyebrow piercing and a pin stripped suit?

T