Bad taste

[rsdntbplr]

I've been doing my own coils for a while now and I'm always having the same problem: a really bad taste. I wouldn't say it's a burnt taste and I don't think it's the wick either because I've used both Sillica wick and Cotton but they both give me the bad taste.

I really don't know how to describe the taste which is making it difficult to pinpoint the issue. I've had the problem on both a Kanger Aerotank and now my Kayfun 3.1. The coil is a micro coil, 2.5Ohms and there doesn't seem to be any hotspots. The coil glows nicely and evenly from the inside and radiates to each side of the coil as a micro coil should.

The only way I've ever been able to get rid of the taste is to leave the tank with eliquid in lying around for a couple of days or up to a week and that sometimes solves the problem. Normally I'd assume that would point to the wick being the problem. But the exact same taste from both Sillica and Cotton makes that unlikely, I'd think.

 

[Jjshbetz11]

what gauge wire and id. of the coil? If using 28g or larger, I would say too many wraps to get to that 2.5 ohm. The length of wick in that length of coil would have a hard time to keep up. If you are using 28g or larger, try spacing the windings out rather than using a micro coil or bump up to a larger gauge wire.

 

[rsdntbplr]

what gauge wire and id. of the coil? If using 28g or larger, I would say too many wraps to get to that 2.5 ohm. The length of wick in that length of coil would have a hard time to keep up. If you are using 28g or larger, try spacing the windings out rather than using a micro coil or bump up to a larger gauge wire.

I'm using .25mm Kanthal (A1) but I've got some .28 on the way. Just going to have to sit down tomorrow and constantly try to refine things. I've only just started using an RBA and I'm already getting stressed over it - maybe I need to cool down and just try and try and try again.

 

[rsdntbplr]

With the taste and smell I'm getting, I'm going to take a guess on it being a short. But why? I can't see any reason for it be shorting. The coils all looked and look fine to me!

I'll have to take a picture next time I do a coil to see if you can spot anything

 

[Spacedoutart]

It sounds like a chocked wick to me... Maybe you wrapped your coils too tightly and it is not allowing the juice to flow into the coil. This would make a metallic like taste as the coil gets hot and no juice to vaporize off of it. If so, use a paperclip or toothpick along side of your wick and wrap the wire around both... this will allow the extra little space needed to shine.

 

[rsdntbplr]

It sounds like a chocked wick to me... Maybe you wrapped your coils too tightly and it is not allowing the juice to flow into the coil. This would make a metallic like taste as the coil gets hot and no juice to vaporize off of it. If so, use a paperclip or toothpick along side of your wick and wrap the wire around both... this will allow the extra little space needed to shine.

I don't wrap around the wick - I wrap around a screwdriver which I use exclusively for coils to prevent cross contamination of impurities. After wrapping a coil, I take it off the screwdriver and fit it to the RBA, at which point I dry burn the coil and squeeze it together after each dry burn using tweezers (once again purpose specific). Then I thread the wick through, finish off saturating the coil and wick and re-assemble.

 

[DeadbeatJeff]

28 gauge =/= ".28mm"; in fact 28 gauge is more like .32mm

American wire gauge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

I'd say that 2.5Ω is unnecessarily high TBH; I find the best flavor on a VV/VW around 2.0Ω ±0.2 (I'm assuming you're using a regulated device from the resistance you're making). On a regulated device, it is also possible that you're not pushing enough amps to get such a fat wire with that many wraps hot enough to vape properly -- for a regulated device, I've found that 30 gauge is best

Lastly, It is very possible that your cotton wick is too dense/tight in the coil. It should be nearly loose in the coil, sliding easily, and you don't need very much hanging down onto the deck in a kayfun.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[UncleChuck]

Is it kind of a dank, musty, sour metallic undertone flavor? Similar to a genny with a bad short? Like the smell of old steel tools left in a damp basement for years mixed with mold?

If so, I've experienced that flavor from bad/loose connections between wire and posts before, I have no idea as to what the exact cause is, I'm guessing some sort of micro scale arcing between the loose connection points, because the coil will look perfect but taste foul. Whenever this happens I loosen and then re-tighten the screws and the flavor goes away, so I'm fairly certain it's related the interface between the wire and whatever it attaches to.

The way the wire gets captured in protank style heads you don't have a real secure connection, so it's possible that you are experiencing a similar issue to the one I described above. Not sure how to remedy this situation other than being careful and making sure the coil legs are making good firm contact with the pin and barrel of the 510.

It seems like since your problem is consistent that wouldn't be the cause though, another thing to check is the rubber grommet. If you are using a head that has the white rubber grommets instead of the clear silicone ones, it's very possible while dry burning that you have burned the grommet. When this happens you get a really terrible flavor, and it's pretty much impossible to get rid of.

Aside from that, you have made sure to give the entire tank and coil head a good cleaning under hot water, as well as the 510 connection and surrounding area on your PV just to be sure?

Hope this helps!

EDIT:

Just noticed you said this also happens in your Kayfun, that makes me thing it's a technique issue and not a hardware one. As others have mentioned make sure your cotton isn't in there too tight, it should move very easily and shouldn't require any firm tugging to pull through the coil.

Where did you get your wire BTW? I'm just trying to think of anything, maybe you got some janky wire that's throwing some off flavors.

 

[rsdntbplr]

Is it kind of a dank, musty, sour metallic undertone flavor? Similar to a genny with a bad short? Like the smell of old steel tools left in a damp basement for years mixed with mold?

If so, I've experienced that flavor from bad/loose connections between wire and posts before, I have no idea as to what the exact cause is, I'm guessing some sort of micro scale arcing between the loose connection points, because the coil will look perfect but taste foul. Whenever this happens I loosen and then re-tighten the screws and the flavor goes away, so I'm fairly certain it's related the interface between the wire and whatever it attaches to.

The way the wire gets captured in protank style heads you don't have a real secure connection, so it's possible that you are experiencing a similar issue to the one I described above. Not sure how to remedy this situation other than being careful and making sure the coil legs are making good firm contact with the pin and barrel of the 510.

It seems like since your problem is consistent that wouldn't be the cause though, another thing to check is the rubber grommet. If you are using a head that has the white rubber grommets instead of the clear silicone ones, it's very possible while dry burning that you have burned the grommet. When this happens you get a really terrible flavor, and it's pretty much impossible to get rid of.

Aside from that, you have made sure to give the entire tank and coil head a good cleaning under hot water, as well as the 510 connection and surrounding area on your PV just to be sure?

Hope this helps!

EDIT:

Just noticed you said this also happens in your Kayfun, that makes me thing it's a technique issue and not a hardware one. As others have mentioned make sure your cotton isn't in there too tight, it should move very easily and shouldn't require any firm tugging to pull through the coil.

Where did you get your wire BTW? I'm just trying to think of anything, maybe you got some janky wire that's throwing some off flavors.

The taste you described in the first paragraph seems to hit the nail on the head. I'm not sure what's worse - the taste or the smell. It's weird that if I leave it overnight, the coil tastes a lot better and then it'll typically stay tasting nice until I need to rebuild the coil.

I've tried using thinner cotton, to the point of only needing to lightly twist the cotton through to get it to sit and from then on it could be pulled backwards and forwards rough through the coil at ease, without too much effort. The problem is that I'm not sure it's the wick at all - even when I have lose Sillica in there I get the exact same taste.

I think the issue might be more to do with the technique. So far I haven't tried heating the Kanthal before installing it as a coil on the device but I'll try doing that once my new blowtorch arrives. I also noticed on my most recent attempt that the coil seemed a little high - perhaps to the point that it might make contact with the chimney when screwed into the chamber (the height of the coil seemed to be on line with the lowest threadings).

Losing the plot so I've stopped again for today and will struggle again for a while tomorrow.

 

[DeadbeatJeff]

Does your device measure resistance? I know in my Kayfun Lite if it's too high it will definitely contact the top, and totally ground-out -- I'll notice a drop from like 2.0Ω to 0.5Ω.

Oh yeah: you don't really need to torch/burn the coil at all, ever -- I only do to straighten the wire before I twist the coil, and I use a regular Bic. Maybe that's different with the thicker wires; haven't gone below 28 myself.

 

[rsdntbplr]

Does your device measure resistance? I know in my Kayfun Lite if it's too high it will definitely contact the top, and totally ground-out -- I'll notice a drop from like 2.0Ω to 0.5Ω.

Oh yeah: you don't really need to torch/burn the coil at all, ever -- I only do to straighten the wire before I twist the coil, and I use a regular Bic. Maybe that's different with the thicker wires; haven't gone below 28 myself.

Yeah it does. When I did my first coil with .25mm Kanthal on the Kayfun I got around 2.4Ohms and it kept jumping around everywhere. But my latest coil (0.28mm to 1.4Ohms) is staying at 1.4Ohms without fluctuating at all but I'm still getting the strange taste.

 

[DeadbeatJeff]

this may be a dumb question, but did you scrub the Kayfun thoroughly with soap and water?

 

[rsdntbplr]

Okay, I seem to have made some progress. The taste is mostly gone (just a slight hint, but that's probably just because it's clinging to the parts of the Kayfun) but I have NO idea how I things are any different. I've finally stopped using the Kayfun on my VV/VW MVP 2 and started using it for the first time on the Nemesis (HCigar Clone) and it's such a beautiful sight.

The usefulness of my MVP won't be forgotten though - the amount of coils I've chucked out in the past 72 hours amounts to around 30, so the MVP was good for quickly checking the resistance and trying the taste quickly, without having to keep using my multimeter.

I'm so glad I'm getting somewhere but I still don't have a clue where things were going wrong. The screw heads on the Kayfun are wasted from using the wrong sized screwdriver in frustration and therefore by not paying attention to which screwdriver I was using. One screw also seems slightly slanted - which could be attributing to the issue.

Luckily I didn't rush straight into buying a genuine Kayfun or Nemesis because I very nearly went back to the analogs over this. If I have more luck over the coming weeks, I'll go ahead and make the final plunge and buy the real deal.

 

[rsdntbplr]

this may be a dumb question, but did you scrub the Kayfun thoroughly with soap and water?

I cleaned the device fully four times after it arrived. Not a dumb question but my experience with manufacturing oils made it a priority

 

[rsdntbplr]

Damn. Had to do a new coil today because the other one got gunked up and I was getting a burnt taste. So I did another coil and I've got the horrible taste back again.

There's one thing I've noticed. When dry burning the coil to adjust it, I noticed steam coming from one of the screw heads. I've also found it difficult to stop the Kanthal from popping out from under one of the screw heads when I'm tightening it down.