Balancing Political Correctness with Biblical Correctness...........

[tornado9015]

Matthew 10:22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

Why would we be hated? Because we are told to speak the truth, not all is ok, not all roads lead to heaven, not all worship is acceptable or correct. A good example of this is the people who strap on bombs and kill innocent people in the name of Allah.......yes, that is some people's form of worship........can you even imagine how He feels about that? It's difficult to even think about.

We are told to speak the truth. We are told to pick up our cross and follow Him. We are told that we will be hated and persecuted for it, we were told that the world will hate us. We were told that not everyone will listen to the Gospel and that we should shake the dust off our sandals and move on to the next person.

Jesus told us ahead of time what it would be like, and He wasn't wrong

Please do not bring suicide bomber into this. It is such a cheap easy and wrong minded way to handle an argument. They are not following the teachings of the Qur'an. They are following the teachings of political and extremist figures who have manipulated the word of their God, who by the way is the same God you worship, more on that in a minute, for their own gain. The Muslim religion is for the most part peaceful, however it is condemned, for a very small percentage of it's members exhibiting extreme and horrific acts in it's name. There are many televangelists who use God's name to make millions of dollars, and live in unbelievable wealth and luxury. There are also those that believe that all Muslims should be killed in God's name. I am sure you do not agree with these Christians, just as most Muslims do not agree with suicide bombers.

Back to my argument that you worship the same God, blasphemous I know, but true. Judaism was the first religion which wrote about the Christian concept of God, sometime before the events of the Hebrew bible, or Old testament were finished, Muhammad, the Muslim prophet was born, some members of the Jewish faith split off and began worshiping Muhammad in addition to God, and turned to him to finish the Qu'ran. Later, Jesus was born, and many members of the Jewish faith split off and began worshiping Jesus as their prophet in addition to God, and Jesus finished the Bible. The Jewish faith still believe that their prophet is yet to be born, and worship God alone.

Although this is not common knowledge for a reason I do not understand, it is fact and cannot be argued, no church denies this. Please if you disagree research this yourself before attempting to argue without any facts.

 

[LisaLisa]

Please do not bring suicide bomber into this. It is such a cheap easy and wrong minded way to handle an argument. They are not following the teachings of the Qur'an. They are following the teachings of political and extremist figures who have manipulated the word of their God, who by the way is the same God you worship, more on that in a minute, for their own gain. The Muslim religion is for the most part peaceful, however it is condemned, for a very small percentage of it's members exhibiting extreme and horrific acts in it's name. There are many televangelists who use God's name to make millions of dollars, and live in unbelievable wealth and luxury. There are also those that believe that all Muslims should be killed in God's name. I am sure you do not agree with these Christians, just as most Muslims do not agree with suicide bombers.

Back to my argument that you worship the same God, blasphemous I know, but true. Judaism was the first religion which wrote about the Christian concept of God, sometime before the events of the Hebrew bible, or Old testament were finished, Muhammad, the Muslim prophet was born, some members of the Jewish faith split off and began worshiping Muhammad in addition to God, and turned to him to finish the Qu'ran. Later, Jesus was born, and many members of the Jewish faith split off and began worshiping Jesus as their prophet in addition to God, and Jesus finished the Bible. The Jewish faith still believe that their prophet is yet to be born, and worship God alone.

Although this is not common knowledge for a reason I do not understand, it is fact and cannot be argued, no church denies this. Please if you disagree research this yourself before attempting to argue without any facts.

Yes, of course we all worship the same god because there is only one true God. The only problem is, that christians are the only ones who recognize Jesus as the promised messiah. That is what separates us from all other religions.

My point in bringing up the suicide bombers is because they really do feel that they are doing the right thing. Some christians that bomb abortion clinics believe they are doing the right thing. Westboro Baptist Church believes they are doing the right thing, but none of this is biblical, in fact it's the opposite.

So, not all worship, or acts of worship is acceptable to God. Even if the person is sincere and really believes what they are doing is right. I"m sure God is horrified at what some people do in His name.

 

[tornado9015]

Yes, of course we all worship the same god because there is only one true God. The only problem is, that christians are the only ones who recognize Jesus as the promised messiah. That is what separates us from all other religions.

My point in bringing up the suicide bombers is because they really do feel that they are doing the right thing. Some christians that bomb abortion clinics believe they are doing the right thing. Westboro Baptist Church believes they are doing the right thing, but none of this is biblical, in fact it's the opposite.

So, not all worship, or acts of worship is acceptable to God. Even if the person is sincere and really believes what they are doing is right. I"m sure God is horrified at what some people do in His name.

I really am glad to hear you say that, just by saying that you have demonstrated a much higher intelligence than many Christians I deal with on a regular basis. It really bothers me that some people categorize many groups by some of their loudest members, but choose to fight those who show similar members in their groups.

I for one am agnostic, I do not believe in any religion, though I will not say that they are wrong. In my opinion it is incredibly unlikely that any religion is correct, but I acknowledge that I could be wrong. While it bothers me to a degree that most people who do follow a religion, refuse to believe that their religion could be wrong, I can see where they are coming from. Even accepting the possibility of a single element of your religion not being correct contradicts dogmatic law, which most religions follow. As long as a religion does not attempt any physical violence, or to destroy other religions, I have no problem with it. Unfortunately most religions do believe other religions should not be allowed to be practiced, and attempt to stop others from practicing them at any opportunity.

 

[Southern Gent]

Was not Muhammad born around 570 AD?

 

[tornado9015]

Was not Muhammad born around 570 AD?

You appear to be correct, I apologize for being inaccurate. The split from Judaism to Christianity occurred before the split from Judaism to Islam.

 

[chimney55]

Please do not bring suicide bomber into this. It is such a cheap easy and wrong minded way to handle an argument. They are not following the teachings of the Qur'an. They are following the teachings of political and extremist figures who have manipulated the word of their God, who by the way is the same God you worship, more on that in a minute, for their own gain. The Muslim religion is for the most part peaceful, however it is condemned, for a very small percentage of it's members exhibiting extreme and horrific acts in it's name. There are many televangelists who use God's name to make millions of dollars, and live in unbelievable wealth and luxury. There are also those that believe that all Muslims should be killed in God's name. I am sure you do not agree with these Christians, just as most Muslims do not agree with suicide bombers.

Back to my argument that you worship the same God, blasphemous I know, but true. Judaism was the first religion which wrote about the Christian concept of God, sometime before the events of the Hebrew bible, or Old testament were finished, Muhammad, the Muslim prophet was born, some members of the Jewish faith split off and began worshiping Muhammad in addition to God, and turned to him to finish the Qu'ran. Later, Jesus was born, and many members of the Jewish faith split off and began worshiping Jesus as their prophet in addition to God, and Jesus finished the Bible. The Jewish faith still believe that their prophet is yet to be born, and worship God alone.

Although this is not common knowledge for a reason I do not understand, it is fact and cannot be argued, no church denies this. Please if you disagree research this yourself before attempting to argue without any facts.

Where in the world are you getting your "facts" about Islam and the Quran??? Muhammad wasn't even born until almost 600 years until after Jesus died!!! Muslims will tell you that. Therefore, the Quran could not have been written before the birth of Christ. Muhammad was supposedly visited by the "angel Gabriel" who gave him the "word of Allah" over a period of time. In the beginning surahs (chapters), he said that followers of Allah should be "at peace" with the "people of the book" (the Hebrew and Christian scriptures). He thought that by convincing the Jews and Christians that they were worshiping the "same god" that they would come over to his "religion". He even "harbored" Jews and Christians who were being persecuted, exchanging stories with them which no doubt inspired some of his "historical accounts" in the Quran (although he sort of lumped all of the people in the same historical era--Moses and Abraham lived at the same time according to him. )
When he found that neither Jews or Christians were biting, he was "inspired" to write additional surahs. In these, he said that the Jews and Christians were "infidels" and must be eliminated. These surahs were a clear departure from what was written in the previous surahs. Do your research. These surahs are rife with references about what to do with "infidels"! A person (Muslim) who did not follow the teachings was also considered to be an infidel. Therefore, the so-called "moderate Muslims" are considered to be infidels! The ones who are not "steeped" in the Quran are the moderates. The more a person studies the Quran and follows it, the more likely that they will commit violence against infidels--even if those infidels are "moderate Muslims". Everyone likes to bring up the Spanish inquisition when talking about the violence of Christians. Do you know that the inquisition lasted about 300 years? Do you know how many people were actually killed during the inquisition because of the faulty teachings of some of the church leaders? About 2000. That's over a 300 year period.

On the other hand, do you know how many people are killed in the name of "Allah"? One million people a year for the past decade!!! This is definitely NOT the same God that I worship!! Jesus said "love your enemies", "Allah" says to kill those who disagree with him. Not the same God at all!

Do your homework before spouting off "facts"!!

 

[Southern Gent]

Where in the world are you getting your "facts" about Islam and the Quran??? Muhammad wasn't even born until almost 600 years until after Jesus died!!! Muslims will tell you that. Therefore, the Quran could not have been written before the birth of Christ. Muhammad was supposedly visited by the "angel Gabriel" who gave him the "word of Allah" over a period of time. In the beginning surahs (chapters), he said that followers of Allah should be "at peace" with the "people of the book" (the Hebrew and Christian scriptures). He thought that by convincing the Jews and Christians that they were worshiping the "same god" that they would come over to his "religion". He even "harbored" Jews and Christians who were being persecuted, exchanging stories with them which no doubt inspired some of his "historical accounts" in the Quran (although he sort of lumped all of the people in the same historical era--Moses and Abraham lived at the same time according to him. )
When he found that neither Jews or Christians were biting, he was "inspired" to write additional surahs. In these, he said that the Jews and Christians were "infidels" and must be eliminated. These surahs were a clear departure from what was written in the previous surahs. Do your research. These surahs are rife with references about what to do with "infidels"! A person (Muslim) who did not follow the teachings was also considered to be an infidel. Therefore, the so-called "moderate Muslims" are considered to be infidels! The ones who are not "steeped" in the Quran are the moderates. The more a person studies the Quran and follows it, the more likely that they will commit violence against infidels--even if those infidels are "moderate Muslims". Everyone likes to bring up the Spanish inquisition when talking about the violence of Christians. Do you know that the inquisition lasted about 300 years? Do you know how many people were actually killed during the inquisition because of the faulty teachings of some of the church leaders? About 2000. That's over a 300 year period.

On the other hand, do you know how many people are killed in the name of "Allah"? One million people a year for the past decade!!! This is definitely NOT the same God that I worship!! Jesus said "love your enemies", "Allah" says to kill those who disagree with him. Not the same God at all!

Do your homework before spouting off "facts"!!

Would I be a prophet if I knew this was coming?

 

[eHuman]

Please do not bring suicide bomber into this. It is such a cheap easy and wrong minded way to handle an argument. They are not following the teachings of the Qur'an.

Having read the Qur'an myself I can say that you are mistaken.

They are following the teachings of political and extremist figures who have manipulated the word of their God,

This is correct to an extent but murder is commanded by the Qur'an. I have read that for myself.

The Muslim religion is for the most part peaceful, however it is condemned, for a very small percentage of it's members exhibiting extreme and horrific acts in it's name.

Sorry, but an incorrect statement

There are many televangelists who use God's name to make millions of dollars, and live in unbelievable wealth and luxury.

Sadly too many, "Christian's" are often Christianity's worst enemy.

Judaism was the first religion which wrote about the Christian concept of God, sometime before the events of the Hebrew bible, or Old testament were finished, Muhammad, the Muslim prophet was born,

Muhammad was born in 570AD and died in 632AD.

Some of your core or foundational misunderstandings cause anything that you build on them to also be incorrect sadly.

some members of the Jewish faith split off and began worshiping Muhammad in addition to God, and turned to him to finish the Qu'ran. Later, Jesus was born, and many members of the Jewish faith split off and began worshiping Jesus as their prophet in addition to God, and Jesus finished the Bible. The Jewish faith still believe that their prophet is yet to be born, and worship God alone.

See above statement, You are misinformed on a topic that you can readily verify for yourself on the internet.

Although this is not common knowledge for a reason I do not understand, it is fact and cannot be argued, no church denies this. Please if you disagree research this yourself before attempting to argue without any facts.

Thank you, I have and do. Although it is true that Muhammadan Islam believes in the God of Abraham as the one true God and truly believes that their God Allah is that same one true God, nothing could be further from the truth.

Another mistake I will point out of yours that you can find and verify in the Qur'an. Islam traces it's roots back to Abraham yes, but not through Isaac the "son of promise" from God. Their "Father" Ishmael the "son of the flesh" from the handmaiden Hagar.

Jacob is the Father of the Jews
Ishmael the Father of the Muslim

Islam believes that God created Adam and Eve, taught Adam the animals names, Noah and the flood, and many other details.

Here is the parting point: Muslim's believe that Jew's "messed up" and refused to obey God, (some truth in that) and that Muslims were chosen in their place as God's people(no truth in that). They accredit things to the one God that the Bible does not, and deny things that the Bible credit to the "Jewish" God.

They have created a God in their own image, he is another = false god.

The fact that the Qur'an was written hundreds of years after the canonization of the New Testament by a murdering, thieving ...... (verifiable history, look it up) who self proclaimed himself to be THE prophet of Allah. He represents a different god make no mistake.

I don't want to be rude, but do your own homework please instead of believing everything you hear. That advice BTW is the same advice that Christian's are given about those who preach to them. "Look in the Bible for yourself to make sure that you are not being lead astray by either an knowingly evil, or an innocently wrong man."

That being said. The "good Muslims" that you refer to; those are the ones who don't know or don't follow the Qur'an. Their respect of life and humanity goes against the teaching of their most holy writing. The leaders who preach hate are walking their religion "closer to the letter" than the "good Muslims".

 

[eHuman]

Y'all beat me to the punch. I had to come and go from my PC while writing that response so I didn't see the traffic. lol


chimney55 - Great post

 

[chimney55]

Would I be a prophet if I knew this was coming?

Are you willing to be stoned if you're not right 100% of the time?

 

[tornado9015]

I was already Corrected and apologized, my point was that all three religions worshiped the same God, not the timeline. The same point is accomplished.

I do not believe that Muslims have killed a million people a year for the last decade, I would love to see where you got those numbers. While you are correct that the inquisition was a relatively low death:year ratio, let me throw a few examples taken directly from the bible. Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count p.2

That does not include the witch hunts, 50,000-60,000 killed, the Saracen massacre Richard The Lionheart Massacres The Saracens, 1191 2,700 slaughtered in a day, or the other Christian atrocities too numerous to list.

I am sadly just now realizing that this has become an argument, not a discussion. Feel free to pick on as many minor technicalities you can find in my statements. Or dismiss everything I have said as false, what have you. I am done posting in this thread.

 

[eHuman]

Would I be a prophet if I knew this was coming?

Maybe That or a lucky quess, but we don't believe in luck do we?

 

[Southern Gent]

Maybe That or a lucky quess, but we don't believe in luck do we?

Sometimes ya take what you can get I suppose.

 

[eHuman]

My main point, if you read my post is that it is not the same God.

You can only truly worship God, if you do so in Spirit and in Truth.

If I go around the playground telling all of the kids that my dad was a war hero, and he has 10 US and Foreign Patents that are just months away from revolutionizing the generation and distribution of energy and food; (and not one of these facts is true) Then if all of the kids come to admire my dad becasue of it, then they are not admiring my true father, but a lie.

Allah is a lie. It is, "creating God in your own image"

 

[Southern Gent]

I was already Corrected and apologized, my point was that all three religions worshiped the same God, not the timeline. The same point is accomplished.

I do not believe that Muslims have killed a million people a year for the last decade, I would love to see where you got those numbers. While you are correct that the inquisition was a relatively low death:year ratio, let me throw a few examples taken directly from the bible. Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count p.2

That does not include the witch hunts, 50,000-60,000 killed, the Saracen massacre Richard The Lionheart Massacres The Saracens, 1191 2,700 slaughtered in a day, or the other Christian atrocities too numerous to list.

I am sadly just now realizing that this has become an argument, not a discussion. Feel free to pick on as many minor technicalities you can find in my statements. Or dismiss everything I have said as false, what have you. I am done posting in this thread.

I understand the point that you are making. This idea of one and same God flies in the face of Christianity (right or wrong) and everything that Christianity stands for. For the Christian "No one comes to the Father except by the Son". The other two, both Judaism and Islam do not teach such as the true word of God. In this is the issue brought forth.

John 10:1 Jesus said.....Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

 

[chimney55]

I read those statistics maybe a year or so ago. I can not find the original article. I did find this. Political Islam // Tears of Jihad | Killed by Religion | Effects of Jihad | Political Islam . Also, if you do your research properly, you'll see that many of the current "conflicts" in the world are caused by Islamics trying to unseat the current regimes...Sudan/Darfur, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Rwanda, Nigeria, Indonesia... I could go on and on. That's not counting "sectarian" violence, which is basically Muslims fighting Muslims from a different branch of Islam (Sunni, Shi'ite, etc.) You could also look at stories of how many people are killed for not obeying sharia law. This would include the stoning of people for "adultery", homosexuality, and other penalties.

Same God, indeed!

 

[Saintscruiser]

WTG guys! Lisa, it wasn't me this time!

eH, Chimney 55......well all of you, really, I'm giving you all a standing ovation! Nicely done! One detail that wasn't mentioned is that 'allah' was a moon god. There's no way on this green earth that allah and Almighty God are the same. There were 360 gods, and mohammed picked the moon god. Now how dumb do you have to get!

Hang on, hang on, Jeff Dunham let me borrow one of his dummies.....okay.....I'm set.....

Guys, this is Achmed the dead terrorist who had a premature detonation. "SILENCE.....I kill you!" And they will if they get a chance. Don't be mistaken, because they won't hesitate.

 

[LisaLisa]

wtg guys! Lisa, it wasn't me this time!

.

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chimney55]

One detail that wasn't mentioned is that 'allah' was a moon god. There's no way on this green earth that allah and Almighty God are the same. There were 360 gods, and mohammed picked the moon god. Now how dumb do you have to get!

Sorry, I thought that my post was getting too long anyway... Muhammad did not "invent" Allah. As you said, Allah was just one god of over 300 gods. In fact, Muhammad's father's name was Abdullah which means "slave of Allah". If Muhammad "invented" Allah, how could his father have been a slave of Allah? Allah was the moon god that many people in the middle east worshipped at the time. By the way, the symbol for Allah was the crescent moon even back then. Sound familiar?

 

[LisaLisa]

I believe that all of the major religions, Jews, Christians, Muslims, all believe they are serving Almighty God, the creator of Heaven and Earth. There is only one creator.