Ban Vendors who sell Obvious Knock-Offs, i.e. Hybrids

[DiNet]

Well, just FYI Zen said he doesn not care about his products being copied.
More on that, he said all of his designs are open source and he will provide spec sheets to who ever wants those.

 

[Orobas]

I wonder if zen uses linux.

 

[crxess]

That said, I kind of want an RSST, not because it's an AC9 clone but because I like the way they insulated the wick hole without having the wick touching any plastic.

Okay, you caught me
And the reviews have been outstanding.

I'd also love a ZAU - but not likely to happen any time soon

 

[Mr.Mann]

{preens}

I can B slap!

BSLAPBSLAPBSLAPBSLAP

but seriously, it isn't "intellectual property" until it is patented.

Exactly!

I think vendors that are using names like Do the Dew, Skiddles (taste the reignbow! LOL), Mar-boro or Kamel for their juices names (and for juices that are supposed to replicate those "flavors") are the ones that need to watch their backs! A piece of equipment? The only people that, in my mind, are going to buy some of those knock-offs are those that may have never have bought the originals to begin with! You think Dspin or RWeshler would be caught dead with a DID clone? I know plenty of people who refuse to buy the originals and those that refuse clones.

p.s. Going into a vendors thread and posting about getting the "same" device for cheaper is stepping over the line, though.

 

[Fury83]

Well, just FYI Zen said he doesn not care about his products being copied.
More on that, he said all of his designs are open source and he will provide spec sheets to who ever wants those.

Yeah, I saw that vid, it's a cool outlook considering there are only so many ways to do it anyway.

And as for ihybrids, it's not like they will stop selling out in there batches of 25-50 if a chi-hybrid comes out.

Okay, you caught me
And the reviews have been outstanding.

I'd also love a ZAU - but not likely to happen any time soon

I love my Zen stuff but that doesn't mean I can't use an Aga or RSST. My ZAU lives on an EA, I'm going to buy an RSST and put it on a $22 Tec Tele...should be an interesting pair of mech/genny combos.

Exactly!


p.s. Going into a vendors thread and posting about getting the "same" device for cheaper is stepping over the line, though.

Agreed. It's not like you can't just post it in the general forums anyway.

 

[USinchains]

Has anyone watched The Pirates of Silicone Valley? The story of Apple and Bill Gates? Well then there you go.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

Pretty ironic when someone uses a rip-off to rant about
rip-offs, isn't it?

 

[hippieben]

So that's like every vendor then. Even empire mods sells knock off drip shields, which is their patented design.

 

[Keith C]

It's not that i can't afford and original ZEN , it's that i can't FIND an original ZIN, so at this time, a knock off will work (for a wile, I hope)

 

[rolygate]

The entire ecig world depends 99% on 'knock-offs', so if ECF banned them we'd have to shut down tomorrow. If you don't understand this, here is a simple example: Janty designed the eGo (invented it if you like), but didn't patent it, and now the benchmark ecig is the mid-size: something that looks like an eGo. There are hundreds of copies.

If a designer wants to protect something, they patent it. If they don't do that, it is a license to copy it and sell it under another name. Yes - I appreciate that it is expensive to patent something and even more expensive to protect the patent in court, but that's life. If it isn't patented it's a giveaway and that's all there is to it.

The entire ecig world is built on 'knock-offs', out of any 100 products only one or two are original designs.

On the other hand, a knock-off that is sold using the same name is a counterfeit; ECF bans vendors selling counterfeits, when we are notified of it officially by the original vendor/manufacturer. That is a given.

 

[albcig]

lol they removed the caravela logo from the device but not the reflection. bet they got the pictures from a famous thread around here

Cool Sell Latest Version Intuition-atty And Intuition Hybrid Mod V2 (z-atty And Cobalt,Genesis Style,Caravela) - Buy Genesis Style Z-atty Atomizer,Hybird Mod And Caravela,Caravela Steel Mesh Atomizer Product on Alibaba.com

 

[crxess]

Have to wonder Who does their Photo advertising layout.
The pictures rarely match their product and often there are several different device shots on one page.
It would be almost comical, if people were not actually researching products.

 

[Mr.Mann]

The entire ecig world depends 99% on 'knock-offs', so if ECF banned them we'd have to shut down tomorrow. If you don't understand this, here is a simple example: Janty designed the eGo (invented it if you like), but didn't patent it, and now the benchmark ecig is the mid-size: something that looks like an eGo. There are hundreds of copies.

If a designer wants to protect something, they patent it. If they don't do that, it is a license to copy it and sell it under another name. Yes - I appreciate that it is expensive to patent something and even more expensive to protect the patent in court, but that's life. If it isn't patented it's a giveaway and that's all there is to it.

The entire ecig world is built on 'knock-offs', out of any 100 products only one or two are original designs.

On the other hand, a knock-off that is sold using the same name is a counterfeit; ECF bans vendors selling counterfeits, when we are notified of it officially by the original vendor/manufacturer. That is a given.

Love it when the the OVs (original vapers ) post!

 

[Kevin Brown]

how is it a knockoff, unbiased and have no idea there's another it's mimicking
craftsmanship

that guy ever gets that tornado atomizer going whoa
me wants it

 

[forg1vn]

LOL - I'm getting a NOT AC9
Could not pass up 19.29 for an RSST

where tell me now! lol

 

[Extraunordinary]

 

[QLogic]

I don't know about you but I can't afford the real thing so I love knockoffs. I'm not just talking about ecigs either. Almost all of my "designer" clothes are knockoffs, watches, hats, shoes, hell my phone is even a chinese knockoff of the Galaxy Note II. The way I see it most of these big name companies are charging hard working people way to much for something that didn't even cost a quarter of what it cost to produce so they can make a quick buck. So as long as there are decent replicas that work as well as the real thing I'm going to buy it.

 

[lheamfrg]

I don't know about you but I can't afford the real thing so I love knockoffs. I'm not just talking about ecigs either. Almost all of my "designer" clothes are knockoffs, watches, hats, shoes, hell my phone is even a chinese knockoff of the Galaxy Note II. The way I see it most of these big name companies are charging hard working people way to much for something that didn't even cost a quarter of what it cost to produce so they can make a quick buck. So as long as there are decent replicas that work as well as the real thing I'm going to buy it.

I'm on the fence on this topic.

knock-offs help those who are unable to buy the real thing, whether due to cost or availability. However, there is also the R&D factor to consider whether it is an investment of time or money (or both). The original designers/builders should still be compensated for a good product.

 

[Clearo-Mizer]

all i will say at this point is ...Sigelei...they are really making some good stuff and have quite a following...the market is starved for mech mods..and hybrids...and folks are getting tired of all the "Out of stock" tags...and anyone who knows business knows that a starving market will turn on the high end products and almost despise them.

And then the market will be endeared to the supplier that meets their needs at the sacrifice of "brand name" or "status"... and it will be satisfied to a point..

this is a good thing...it takes pressure off the modders who will continue to sell at their price point because there will always be those certain few that "just gotta have the name at any cost"...but in the end there will be a sour taste in the ones who feel "left out"

business branding and marketing is a passion of mine and I think the exclusivity mindset and "rarity designed to bolster high prices" is a very temporal thing...its not a business plan for longevity..I firmly believe the modders know exactly what they are doing and as long as they have their "loyal fans" who defend them they can lean back on the " I am just one guy doing what I love ...poor me ...I dont make alot of money doing this" ( which is absurd these guys are making a killing.)

so at the end of the day...knockoffs are here to stay...there is a market left to their taking by a industry here in America and Greece and a few other countries that would rather you go hungry and sit at your computer F5ing at the hope of a chance to pay way to much money for some stainless tubes with a brand on it...

except it ....embrace it ....Sigelei....

 

[Rnoserious]

Sure seigeli makes a great product.. And Just like all chinese knockoffs, the warranties are bland and a pain in the .... to deal with the craftsmanship is lacking, the profit margin is minimal.. (I mean people actually think B&Ms are " making a killing" ) on the chinese mods..

Its a cut throat market, when you have wholesalers blowing the chinese garbage out for 2.00 over cost..


Always remember, you get what you pay for. And chinese clones are just that, " aesthetically" similar.. But the truth always reveals itself.

From the cheap short cuts they take on the seals, threading, using machined castings instead of fully machined parts from metal.. The quality is obvious..


So to the chinese i say saturate the market with the inexpensive mods.. Because eventually, anyone who vapes, will study, and find out what they truly want. And its at that point where the modders will provide a superior product, and everybody wins.

 

[supermarket]

I'm on my cell phone so I will keep my initial post short.

Just saw at Vapor Joe's that the Knock-Off Hybrid Zen APVs are about to come online.

There is little we can do about knock off clearos and other hyper mass produced eCig apparatus. However when companies take someone's intellectual property and copy it and in turn sell it at a greatly reduced price, well do I need to say more?

What we can do however is speak with our money by not spending it at Vendors who choose to offer such Knock-Offs.

This is going to be interesting to see how the enthusiast (us), designers/makers & small shop producers such as Zen and the Vendors who choose to carry the Knock-Offs will handle this potential train wreck.

Remember the people behind most of the awesome Personal Vaporizers are trying to make a living and a car payment. So when you buy that Zen Knock-Off you're not sticking it to Some Company is some far off land, you're sticking it to Zen!

Zen's first, who else making their own Hybrids will be Knocked-Off next?

Honestly, it is ALL about quality. In this world, almost everything is a "knock off" of something else. Very few things, especially consumer products , are original ideas.

In America, we have pretty awesome patent and copyright laws. They are designed to prevent OBVIOUS knock offs. However, in China, where most of the e-cig stuff is manufactured, they don't really have anything close to our copyright/patent laws here.


If you do some research, you will find that JOYE name brand is actually a rip off from an American company. Most of their products (eGo series) and whatnot are direct rip offs of stuff they were supposed to manufacture for someone else.


So even the stuff people are buying that they think is "name brand" is actually knock offs.


Which brings me to my first statement in this post, that it is all about QUALITY. I don't care WHO designed, or manufactures what product I buy, so long as it lives up to its name.....and does what it is spposed to do.