Banning of e-cigarettes on College Campus

[MrStik]

There are many people attending colleges and universities today that are not 18-20 years old. Many veterans are also returning to school now too. When you begin college you are expected to act like an adult. Why punish everybody because a few can’t behave? Really, you train up 18-year-olds to go out and kill then tell them they can’t smoke on campus? Rule makers really need to grow up. Smoking/vaping are not illegal activities. No, they shouldn’t do it in buildings but honestly, quit treating adults like they are all nursery school kids. Next they will ban pickles on you burger in the cafeteria just because they can. I'd prefer they ban perfume.

In order to want to be treated like an adult, these KIDS need to prove to everyone they can act like adults. While most kids at college are just brats, I agree that those who have served their countries have earned that respect, but then again, these soldiers have also learned to respect laws, rules and regulations. They have learned discipline and have the ability to follow orders and the law. True soldiers to not feel more entitled based on what they have done. They feel more honored and are taught to be a grade above the normal civilian, and thus are more respectful of laws and rules under which they are governed.

I agree with your closing statement, but just because it is easier that doesn't make it right.

I don't see how vaping outside can be viewed as throwing anything in anyone's face.

From what I have seen, these anti-vaping regulations follow along with anti-smoking regulations. No campus seems to be allowing smoking and not vaping.

The schools have a right to impose any regulations they wish within reason, and I do not see this as being out of reason unless they are banning ecigs and allowing smoking.. People here with high ideals can go ahead and boycott schools that are banning vaping the same way they want to boycott Starbucks. But in all honesty, I am not going to hold that policy against a top tiered university if my son gets into one. I will not risk his education based on a no vaping regulation.

 

[Myrany]

So then you agree with all of the following bans as well at private universities, correct?

They could therefore ban insulin on campus to hell with those diabetics! It is not constitutionally or otherwise legally protected.
They could therefore ban a specific food, let's say chinese food? It is not constitutionally or otherwise legally protected.
They could therefore ban bottled water on campus? It is not constitutionally or otherwise legally protected.
They could ban bicycles, they could ban paper airplanes, they could ban books they find offensive, they could ban milk, they could ban a brand of shirts, etc.

What about State schools? That is technically not private property at all, so do they have a right to ban things the State has not deemed illegal?

You are making a jump here. There is a BIG difference between agreeing with a ban and agreeing the school has the right to put the ban in place.

A private school has the right to put the ban in place on their property. A student has the right to choose not to go to that school if they do not agree with the ban.

Private Schools like Private Businesses have the right to make the rules.

 

[JMarca]

You said they could make whatever rules they wished.

You said this:



and



So it doesn't matter why they would do it, it only matters that by your logic, the school could do it.

I challenge you to cite the federal law that protects insulin use.

You also ask:



My answer:

No, these are university officials who are making decisions to ban legal items within the state. The state is not setting the rules, it is the University administration. If the state passed laws against it, there is no debate as to the legal/ethical/moral authority.

State owned university officials are employees of the state. Therefore they can be given the right to dictate the school, obviously.
I didn't say they can make whatever rules they wish, you did.

Insulin:
State Laws and Policies - American Diabetes Association®

Why we're even having the insulin discussion is silly, but I'll humor the lion.

 

[Sane Asylum]

What right does a school have to issue a campus ban on e-cigarettes, when it is a legal product being used for it's intended use?

This is so tough. I think a college (we're talking about colleges only and outside, correct?) has the right to make rules when use of a legal product severely affects others in a negative way. For example, someone playing extremely loud music outside. So, the question is does e cigarettes severely affect others in an open air situation. Does the vapor affect anyone more than someone's perfume, or body odor, or food odor? No. Does it medically affect others? That's the premise that those who want it banned are using but is that justifiable? According to the facts we know: no.

How does that change? Education. In the Campaigning thread, there was a question asked and I gave my answer:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-college-banned-smoking-cigarettes-ecigs.html

 

[twgbonehead]

Many schools ban all alcohol on campus, (possession and consumption) even though they have students and professors who are of legal drinking age.

Many ban smoking (also a legal activity) anywhere on campus.

Some have curfews. Some require students to either live in the dorms or with their parents for the first year or two. Some have dress codes. Some require female students to call campus police for an escort if they need to be outside late at night. Some require that you be of a certain faith.

Students (and often their parents) are paying some big bucks to attend a place that will provide them a good education, and the schools implement a framework which tries to do this effectively, safely, and cost-competitively. Part of this is that every student gets a student handbook which states what behavior is permitted and what isn't. I believe it is widely recognized that schools have a lot of leeway in this regard, not just to prohibit behavior they don't want on campus, but to create the educational atmosphere they envision.

A student goes to a particular university or college by choice, after all.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

I have to go for a bit, I will be back a bit later, you guys keep it on topic as much as possible.

Thanks for all the perspectives, especially those of you disagreeing with me....which at this point is just about all of you.

OMG, you're not going on a date are you? You know what happened last time you went on a date after starting a thread like this.

 

[twgbonehead]

What right does a school have to issue a campus ban on e-cigarettes, when it is a legal product being used for it's intended use?

This is so tough. I think a college (we're talking about colleges only and outside, correct?) has the right to make rules when use of a legal product severely affects others in a negative way. For example, someone playing extremely loud music outside. So, the question is does e cigarettes severely affect others in an open air situation. Does the vapor affect anyone more than someone's perfume, or body odor, or food odor? No. Does it medically affect others? That's the premise that those who want it banned are using but is that justifiable? According to the facts we know: no.

How does that change? Education. In the Campaigning thread, there was a question asked and I gave my answer:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-college-banned-smoking-cigarettes-ecigs.html

SA, I liked your response in the other thread. I think it's worth mentioning that SOME colleges pay a lot of attention to what their student body wants, the students (and their parents in many cases) are their customers, after all. (Others are much more top-down and authoritarian).

 

[crxess]

Snipped -Please guys, let's not attack each other, let's debate the issue like good people who disagree, but do so agreeably.

Simplification of a policing action required to prevent use of unlawful products.
This is not a valid reason to ban the activity. The police force is responsible to separate the legal/illegal activities. Alcohol is allowed on many of these campuses, but many students are not of legal drinking age.
Elimination of an action not required in the advancement of education.
So where do we draw that line? By your logic, no cable TV, video games, recreational sports, or booze would be allowed on campus.
Elimination of a continual battle over rights vs. actual action - smokers/vapers
Can a battle be eliminated with a ban that is not based on some legal/ethical/moral (I hate to use that term) authority or rule of law? I don't think so.

Lots of BOLD type for keeping it civil.

You missed a very important point:

Personal opinion - None

These were/are not my views.
But likely some of the weak excuses used to support their bans.

I have only 2 concerns with educational institutes - Qualified teaching and Safety of all attending.

 

[EddardinWinter]

State owned university officials are employees of the state. Therefore they can be given the right to dictate the school, obviously.
I didn't say they can make whatever rules they wish, you did.

Insulin:
State Laws and Policies - American Diabetes Association®

Why we're even having the insulin discussion is silly, but I'll humor the lion.

The site you linked does not buttress your case. It actually identified a need for the very thing you said exists, but does not.

We can drop this now if you like. I am not trying to ban insulin, only to make a point.



Tapped out

 

[EddardinWinter]

OMG, you're not going on a date are you? You know what happened last time you went on a date after starting a thread like this.

I am, but not until 7.

I am buying my son a car. Well, it won't be his until he pays me, but he gets to use it...



Tapped out

 

[JulesXsmokr]

sounds like:
we have no rights to use our rights!
we have to have permission to use our rights.
the "no rights" groups are having a field day...

 

[7sixtwo]

...I'm now 60. When I attended school you could get cracked with a ruler for speaking without permission. Now teachers get attacked.

Maybe so, but you could likely smoke analogs virtually anywhere on campus you wanted, (in many colleges, even right in the classrooms).

I think that banning e-cigs campus-wide is more than a step too far.. more like 10 steps too far. Alas, it's just a further erosion of individual liberty, (very popular in the post-Constitutional era we're living in), "for our own good".

 

[Ryedan]

But if me not liking something is all that is required for a campus wide ban, why can't I ban loud, obnoxious, squalling children? They make me crazy and hurt my ears and raise my BP. Why can't I ban children from campus?

Banning children from public places has been done in restaurants, which struck me as a bit odd at first until I thought it over. Check out this article.

 

[Robino1]

I have a problem with anyone banning a product that is legally obtained by people of legal age to obtain said product. If that product is so disruptive to a student body, it should be illegal to obtain....anywhere.
That includes alcohol, cigarettes, ecigs, food etc.

You can say that if a person doesn't like the rules, go to another school. There is one problem with that, soon all schools will be banning whatever they feel they can or should ban under the guise of protecting the children. Sorry, they aren't children anymore. Where does it then end?

I do agree that all should be kept out of the classroom, but a part of me says why? The ANTZ have done an excellent job of making the public think that there is such a thing as second hand smoke. The only thing second hand is the smell of which they have a strong dislike for.

 

[JMarca]

I have a problem with anyone banning a product that is legally obtained by people of legal age to obtain said product. If that product is so disruptive to a student body, it should be illegal to obtain....anywhere.
That includes alcohol, cigarettes, ecigs, food etc.

You can say that if a person doesn't like the rules, go to another school. There is one problem with that, soon all schools will be banning whatever they feel they can or should ban under the guise of protecting the children. Sorry, they aren't children anymore. Where does it then end?

I do agree that all should be kept out of the classroom, but a part of me says why? The ANTZ have done an excellent job of making the public think that there is such a thing as second hand smoke. The only thing second hand is the smell of which they have a strong dislike for.

The ANTZ don't have anything to do with this. This is about people's fake perception that a product that hasn't even yet cleared the FDA yet is somehow a constitutional right. If I don't want someone vaping, or coming in my house with their shoes on it's my right to say no. What's next oh vaping should be allowed in hospitals? Oh wait we had this topic earlier this morning, it's getting old, everyday one pops up.

Vaping is NOT a god given right, especially on private property.

 

[EddardinWinter]

The ANTZ don't have anything to do with this. This is about people's fake perception that a product that hasn't even yet cleared the FDA yet is somehow a constitutional right. If I don't want someone vaping, or coming in my house with their shoes on it's my right to say no. What's next oh vaping should be allowed in hospitals? Oh wait we had this topic earlier this morning, it's getting old, everyday one pops up.

Vaping is NOT a god given right, especially on private property.

Nobody in this thread has made any such claim of constitutional right.

Yet, the right of the individual to enjoy a legal product is a presumed right. What other justification is necessary? It is legal, it is used for its intended purpose. What if I am walking across a state school's campus? I am not a student, and it is state property (not private property), how do they have the right to dictate my use of a PV?



Tapped out

 

[dr g]

The banning of smoking and including ecigs in that ban is becoming very common in US colleges and universities, and it's not a great thing. These blanket bans are especially misguided in a college setting, as college is often a time for experimentation and free living, as it were. Given that these bans are often based on ignorance about the dangers and effects of ecigarettes, it seems especially wrong for learning institutions to implement such policies.

That said it might be ok to restrict areas where people can vape, so as not to create nuisances.

 

[JMarca]

Nobody in this thread has made any such claim of constitutional right.

Yet, the right of the individual to enjoy a legal product is a presumed right. What other justification is necessary? It is legal, it is used for its intended purpose. What if I am walking across a state school's campus? I am not a student, and it is state property (not private property), how do they have the right to dictate my use of a PV?



Tapped out

If you are not on school property then screw them I openly vape in public, I'm only referring to doing so when they strictly forbid it on their grounds. If they allow it then hey, the more the merrier, but when they don't and we try to shove it down their throats we are not only wrong, but we aren't doing ourselves as a community any favors either.

 

[Robino1]

Yes it does have to do with the ANTZ. They are the ones that started the second hand smoke fallacy, which is contributing to the public perception of vaping. Ergo vaping looks like smoking.

 

[JMarca]

Yes it does have to do with the ANTZ. They are the ones that started the second hand smoke fallacy, which is contributing to the public perception of vaping. Ergo vaping looks like smoking.

Second hand smoke as far as smokers is a real concern, but we're talking about vapers here, do they link one to the other perhaps, but that has nothing to do with what we're talking about. They banned it for whatever reason that may be. They don't want you to do it on their property, ok just let it go. Fighting for your right to vape (in public) is one thing. Making everyone accept it on private property is another.