Batteries are acting strange but I have no idea why.

[8a31]

Recently (under 2 months ago) I purchased a Smoktech SID from a reputable supplier. I then asked on this site after researching batteries about using the Panasonic NCR18650PF which seems to be one of the best fits for this unit. I am now having issues that I cannot diagnose so I ask your assistance once again.

I have 3 NCR18650PF’s I bought @ Orbtronic which as far as I know deals in genuine products. The issues are as follow:
Battery #1- will drain from 4.2-4.3 to 3.4-3.3 then the LCD readout is “Low Vol” so I know it needs to be recharged.
Battery #2 – will drain from 4.2-4.3 to 3.8-3.4 then the LCD readout is “Short” even at less than half discharged. If I wait a couple minutes or shake the unit it will work again for a few minutes then give the same readout.
Battery#3 – will hen the drain from 4.2-4.3 to ?. It will work fine for about an hour or so then the unit will just go dead with no readout until I put a new battery in.

I contacted Orbtronic about the issue and received a response telling me to stop using the unit and check the cell voltage. I have no electrical expertise and other than what the readout says in relation to the battery voltage, I have no idea what it means.

I have noticed no heating of the battery, I have checked and adjusted spring tension on the bottom, I use a kayfun3.1 (clone) with a 1.4-1.5 ohm coil. I refill the tank 1 time per day so I would consider myself a moderate vaper. The coil is cleaned and changed regularly.

Does anyone have any ideas what the cause may be or what is going on?

 

[Baditude]

This is odd. It's strange that this involves three different batteries. Each battery doing something unique from the others consistantly?

My first thoughts are it is the smok SID which has the problems, and not the batteries. Sounds like a circuit board issue. Did it come with any warranty, and is it still covered?

 

[8a31]

It only had a 30 day warranty which has passed.
I find it odd as well and have thought about it being the unit but if all charge to the same voltage how would the device react to 3 different batteries would it have something with the way the batteries drain?

I forgot to mention in my original post, all batteries are the unprotected version of the PF series. which is recommended by the manufacturer.

 

[Rickajho]

#2 and #3 sound more like indications there is something going wrong on the other end of things at the 510 connector. Like overtightened devices having pushed the center post of the 510 connector in, creating intermittent shorts in the SID itself.

 

[Ryedan]

I have 3 NCR18650PF’s I bought @ Orbtronic which as far as I know deals in genuine products. The issues are as follow:
Battery #1- will drain from 4.2-4.3 to 3.4-3.3 then the LCD readout is “Low Vol” so I know it needs to be recharged.
Battery #2 – will drain from 4.2-4.3 to 3.8-3.4 then the LCD readout is “Short” even at less than half discharged. If I wait a couple minutes or shake the unit it will work again for a few minutes then give the same readout.
Battery#3 – will hen the drain from 4.2-4.3 to ?. It will work fine for about an hour or so then the unit will just go dead with no readout until I put a new battery in.

As Baditude said, this is odd. I trust Orbtronic to sell good batteries as do many people.

I take it you have the batteries marked #1, #2 and #3, so you know which are which, correct? How many times have you experienced the problem with #2 and #3? I take it you need to recharge these two to get them to repeat the behavior the same way again, correct? What make and model charger do you have?

I think you don't have a digital multimeter and are using the SID to give you voltage and atty resistance readings. I suggest you buy a DMM and it doesn't have to be expensive. I used this one for a couple of years and it served me well. Home Depot has this Klein Tools MM100 which I think is a bit better. I bought a Klein Tools MM1000 earlier this year and am very happy with it. It would be invaluable to you in a situation like this.

The first thing I would do is check the batteries off the charger. They should be 4.2V +-0.05. Most good chargers will not charge over 4.21V or so. If they are over 4.25 they are being damaged slowly by the charger. Over 4.30V and the charger is seriously bad and should not be used. It will also allow you to check the batteries when the mod stops working.

I would get a DMM and check out the batteries better. I would not continue to vape batteries #2 and #3 in the meantime. Actually, the safest thing would be to stop using the SID if you can until you have the DMM in hand and have checked those batts.

 

[8a31]

All batteries are numbered and dated. This issue is consistent and has been for the last 3 weeks to a month. I fully charge each one on a Nitecore i2 Battery Charger I also bought @ orbtronic before use.
You are correct I do not have a meter so I have been using the built in meter in the SID for all of the information I have given. I will get a meter and check the batteries using that and post the results.
As far as tightening the atty, I had that issue with another device so I am now careful not to let the atty's pin out enough to crush the device pin. so I dont believe that to be the issue.

 

[8a31]

OK I purchased this meter which looks comparable to what Ryedan posted in the links above, and have checked each by setting the unit on "DCV 20." while fully charged. all 3 batteries display 4.18-4.19 at full charge. Battery #3 stopped working and when I checked it the same way with the meter it showed 4.12 after about an hour of vaping.

so what do I check now? and please tell me the setting to use. As I said before, I am uneducated as to what I am looking for or what it means when I find it.

 

[Stosh]

checked each by setting the unit on "DCV 20."

Exactly correct, well done for a first time user. If battery #3 showed 4.12 V after an hour, and stopped working, it would seem to be an issue with the battery or the manner in which the battery is connecting to your mod.

First compare carefully the top and bottoms of the faulty battery and compare them to your working normally battery.

Are there any dimples, pushed in contacts on the battery, do they look clean and perfectly flat?

If you replace the battery #3 in your mod without recharging will the mod fire?

 

[8a31]

Stosh, first I sincerely thank you for confirming I did it correctly. I wasn't sure, which is why I put the settings I used in my last post. I am trying to be as descriptive as I can so please pardon me if I give too much info or give irreverent info.

I Just looked at all of the batteries and all look exactly the same with 1 exception. Batteries #1 and #2 were first put into use on 06/18/14. Battery #3 was just purchased and first used 07/29/14. 1 and 2 both have a faint square "Quick Response Matrix Code" on the side and #3 does not. As far as the tops and bottoms go, all look exactly the same. After an hour of using battery #1 I took it out just out of curiosity and tried #3 again without putting it on the charger (just sat in a plastic battery case). Battery # 3 is again working at the moment but I dont know for how long.

To answer your question YES if I replace any battery at the time of a malfunction with a fresh battery it will fire as it is supposed to.

 

[Ryedan]

Stosh, first I sincerely thank you for confirming I did it correctly. I wasn't sure, which is why I put the settings I used in my last post. I am trying to be as descriptive as I can so please pardon me if I give too much info or give irreverent info.

There is never too much info

I Just looked at all of the batteries and all look exactly the same with 1 exception. Batteries #1 and #2 were first put into use on 06/18/14. Battery #3 was just purchased and first used 07/29/14. 1 and 2 both have a faint square "Quick Response Matrix Code" on the side and #3 does not. As far as the tops and bottoms go, all look exactly the same. After an hour of using battery #1 I took it out just out of curiosity and tried #3 again without putting it on the charger (just sat in a plastic battery case). Battery # 3 is again working at the moment but I dont know for how long.

To answer your question YES if I replace any battery at the time of a malfunction with a fresh battery it will fire as it is supposed to.

It's good to know the charger is good from your post #7.

Has the issue with battery #2 gone away and now it's just #3 giving you trouble? Let us know for how long it works again and what the voltage is when it stops.

Did you purchase battery #3 from Orbtronic also?

IMO the only reason the SID would always stop working with a single battery always at 4.12V at rest is if the voltage drop under load is so high the SID thinks the battery is empty. Is it still just stopping with no message?

 

[DaveP]

Other people are having the same problem with the SID. Check out this thread.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/smoktech-max-vv-devices/495766-smoktech-sid-problems.html

 

[Baditude]

Other people are having the same problem with the SID. Check out this thread.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/smoktech-max-vv-devices/495766-smoktech-sid-problems.html

Interesting. Seems my thoughts of the issue being the SID and not the batteries are likely correct.

 

[8a31]

Ryedan, As of right now #3 is working fine after being taken out for an hour and then putting it back in. The unit says its now down to 3.6V. This is the first time I have put it back in without recharging it first so Im still working on that one. And YES all batteries were purchased from the same place, just at different times.

DaveP, Thank you for the link. That seems somewhat like what is happening with the exception of setting changes as Im using the unit. I have however noticed from time to time after getting the message "Short" or after battery #3 just dies all settings will reset back to factory.

I seem to agree this may be a SID issue but before I scrap it and spend the money to buy a different
unit I want to completely rule out battery issues because they are cheaper to replace.

Even if it is the unit I have to question the uniformity of the batteries because of the consistent errors with how differently the unit reads each individual battery.

 

[Stosh]

Taking the battery out and put it back in without any recharging would still reinitialize the electronics in the mod. A lot like rebooting your computer, nothing is changed besides the a fresh boot sequence.

Would be interesting if #2 battery reacts the same way. I'm wondering if the batteries may be very slightly different lengths, less than a mm even, and the handling of the mod is causing a loss of connection momentarily inside the mod?


p.s. never saw your answer last night...fell asleep, was PUI (posting under the influence)

 

[8a31]

I am going through each battery but it will take a day or so to go through them to check each readout.

We have all had a PUI moment or two (some work out better than others).

 

[Stosh]

Let us know what you find, would be interesting if the "reboot" fixes the issue temporarily. It would fairly indicate a problem with the mod's electronics.

 

[Ryedan]

Ryedan, As of right now #3 is working fine after being taken out for an hour and then putting it back in. The unit says its now down to 3.6V. This is the first time I have put it back in without recharging it first so Im still working on that one. And YES all batteries were purchased from the same place, just at different times.

DaveP, Thank you for the link. That seems somewhat like what is happening with the exception of setting changes as Im using the unit. I have however noticed from time to time after getting the message "Short" or after battery #3 just dies all settings will reset back to factory.

I seem to agree this may be a SID issue but before I scrap it and spend the money to buy a different
unit I want to completely rule out battery issues because they are cheaper to replace.

Even if it is the unit I have to question the uniformity of the batteries because of the consistent errors with how differently the unit reads each individual battery.

Yes, if the issue is always the same with each battery I lean toward the batteries being the cause. But if that changes it's very likely the mod IMO and it seems like battery #3 has changed.

You said you adjusted spring tension in the mod so that's good and I think would take care of slight differences in battery length. One way to check that and if the spring is really strong enough is to bump the bottom of the mod gently onto your palm and make sure that doesn't affect the SID. Otherwise, it doesn't seem dangerous so I would run it a bit longer while checking things out more.

 

[8a31]

Ok here are the readings I got on the first run through. I will check a few times to make sure its consistent.

#3 Full Charge = 4.18
Total failure = 4.12
Short (after reintroduction) = 3.55
(1 hour after total failure I reintroduced the battery and it worked fine until the device readout stated "Short")

#2 Full Charge = 4.19
Short first read = 3.68
Short final = 3.55
(About 6-7 times after the first "Short reading I got the same repeatedly. I tapped or shook the unit and it fired again a few more times)

#1 Full Charge= 4.19
Low Vol= 3.38

 

[Stosh]

Very strange, it would seem the "Short" at 3.55 volts is somewhat similar between #2 and #3 batteries. It's like the electronics is having a problem in determining the available charge, or the available amperage available. Possibly, the mod is reading the voltage and then when you fire it the amps drawn is causing a voltage drop of a couple tenths on a volt and shutting it down....shows short because it's confused.

I usually charge my batteries when they get to about 3.5 volts just to be able to use the upper portion of the charge curve. It seems to help with extending battery life, as I have some that are approaching 2 years old. YMMV

See what Ryedan and Baditude think, they're very knowledgeable on batteries.

 

[8a31]

So would the "Short" notification be more of a pain in the @$$ or is there any danger involved to me, the batteries or the device?