So I just built a 22g sleeper coil on my TOBH Atty. Came out to .13 ohms. I'm currently using sony VTC5's. I've heard a lot of people say that the amp limit is much higher than the 30 amps they are listed at. My setup is at 32 amps, but depending on how long I pulse I should be ok. I'm only pulsing at about 1-2 seconds each pull. Anyone have thoughts on this that could ease my worries?
Battery amp advice
- Thread starter jbish86
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My only worry would be the consistency of the coil, I.e., what happens if/when it drops to .12 or lower. Head room is a good thing, of which, spec wise, you have none.
Sent from my LG G2, using Smack-a-talk HD.
Sent from my LG G2, using Smack-a-talk HD.
Sorry, but I don't think anybody in their right mind is gonna tell you "Yeah, you're fine, vape your heart out".
You are "MOST LIKELY" going to be fine, as I have read specs on the VTC5's that say they can be pulsed for various short times, at almost 100 amps. Somebody posted a table not too long ago with the entire range of pulse times vs amp limit.
As the battery voltage drops pretty quickly, you are going to be below the 30 amps pretty quickly, also. I would say just be very alert when pulsing a freshly charged battery, or even better, do not use a fully charged battery at all. Stick to 3.9 volts, as that is 30 amps @ .13ohms.
Just my .02 worth.
You are "MOST LIKELY" going to be fine, as I have read specs on the VTC5's that say they can be pulsed for various short times, at almost 100 amps. Somebody posted a table not too long ago with the entire range of pulse times vs amp limit.
As the battery voltage drops pretty quickly, you are going to be below the 30 amps pretty quickly, also. I would say just be very alert when pulsing a freshly charged battery, or even better, do not use a fully charged battery at all. Stick to 3.9 volts, as that is 30 amps @ .13ohms.
Just my .02 worth.
did you check the ohms with the wick and juice? it sometimes changes it.
sometimes by puting the wick there moves the coil just a little bit and it may change the reading
sometimes by puting the wick there moves the coil just a little bit and it may change the reading
The ohms haven't changed. So far it hasn't been getting too hot. Not chain vaping it of course but I don't need to. It's a great build. Don't have to drip as much as I did with a .25 single parallel. Very hot vape, don't know how anyone could vape in the 0.05 range.
Pushing the extreme limits of any machine or device greatly increases the inherent possibilities for failure. Watch some of Baditude's videos posts on thermal runaway batteries and then imagine that being in your mouth! I really don't see why you'd want to even get close to subjecting yourself to that possibility. FYI, the resistance of everything changes with introduction of foreign substances and more importantly HEAT!!! I'd raise my res a bit and vape safe even if it meant that I had to fire the coil for another .25-.5 second to get your same heat and vapor production....and lower jaw/tongue! never being able to vape again would be FAR worse than another .25 second!
Here's a copy of a short (worst case scenario)...just wanted to show you the possibilities (however remote) that you're exponentially increasing the possibility of when operating at the limits of your equipment (in your mouth!!!). Watch closely from the 3:00 mark on...
I tend to stay in the safe zone with my vaping. Everyone to their own devices, but when I read posts like the OP I can't help but hear, "My car will do 130mph at 6700 RPM, but I think I'll be OK and not blow the engine because I only do that for a couple of minutes at the time."
I can't imagine blowing clouds at .13 ohms. A 2 ohm dual coil at 3.7v to 4.2v creates a cloud that makes my face disappear in the mirror. I just don't need more, but that's me. I was in the vape store the other day and watched as two employees cranked their box mod drippers at 20 watts and created thick clouds 6 feet long that hung in the air for a while. It's entertaining, but not something I need to do.
Be safe with your vaping, jbish86. A 30 amp limit is like the redline on a tachometer. It's there to let you know when you enter the danger zone.
I can't imagine blowing clouds at .13 ohms. A 2 ohm dual coil at 3.7v to 4.2v creates a cloud that makes my face disappear in the mirror. I just don't need more, but that's me. I was in the vape store the other day and watched as two employees cranked their box mod drippers at 20 watts and created thick clouds 6 feet long that hung in the air for a while. It's entertaining, but not something I need to do.
Be safe with your vaping, jbish86. A 30 amp limit is like the redline on a tachometer. It's there to let you know when you enter the danger zone.
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That's better than, "This is your brain on drugs!". Wouldn't want it in my face when that happened.
If it blows up just give them some story that does not involve vaping. We get enough bad publicity already.
Now show me the person that takes 3 minute pulls on an ultrafire battery 
Not that I'm saying pushing limits isn't a bad idea. Is .13 that much better than .25?
Not that I'm saying pushing limits isn't a bad idea. Is .13 that much better than .25?
Pretty much what vapero said. Just be safe man, I've had coils go South, for no good reason - that I could find. Sometimes they stay solid forever, and sometimes *poof*. Mine have never went *poof*, but they have lowered their resistance. Honestly, I've had more go up than down.
cg
So far so good. I've been paying close attention to how hot it gets, making sure it cools down when I'm done. Both coils are as pretty as they where when I built it. No dry hits. I will give it a couple more days then probably go back to a .3 build which seems to be my sweet spot.
This is from a short. That's not an equal comparison at all. That could happen to any one with any coil.
Well the reason that going below .17 isn't advised is because if you get a short at .17, you have a much higher chance of that short being a DEAD short than a "regular" short. I've never dipped below .39 myself, but it offers a good safety net.
For the same reason, I always recommend VTC 5's for any device that will accept them, whether the person is sub-ohming or not. In the event of a short, a VTC 5 has a much bigger safety cushion than an AW-IMR. If my Provari would have accepted flat tops, you know what I would be using in there.
These kids at the vape shop were telling me about their .07 ohm builds on a mod that didn't have venting, using VTC 5's. I almost lost it. Just unbelievable.
Also consider how accurate do you think your ohm meter really is? at the .2 mark, a variance of +/- .05 ohms is a big deal. At the .13 mark, that variance is a huge deal. Is it unreasonable to expect whatever chinese made ohm checkers are using, to be accurate enough to trust our safety to them?
I say no.
As an electronics hobbyist I've got a decent handle on batteries (although take anything I say as friendly advice, not an absolute.) The thing with these batteries (at least the Sony, MNKE and other quality brands) is that they have something of a built-in margin of safety. That 30 Amp limit is for continuous use (such as flashlights, small electronics, etc), but they typically have a higher amp rating for "pulsed" use (which is what ecigs use.) In other words, they're rated higher for short bursts of use; you can go over that 30 Amp limit for a few seconds at a time without much worry...usually.
So what's the pulsed amp rating for the VTC5's? Dunno. I spent the last hour or so poking around and couldn't find an official spec sheet (I have a feeling it's on one of Sony's Japanese-only websites, which are impossible to navigate unless you read Japanese.) Most of the time, if a battery has a 30 Amp "Continuous" rating, its pulsed-used rating will be around 50-60 Amps. As an example, the orange MNKE 18650's (the 1500mAh ones) are rated for30A 20A continuous maximum, but 60A pulsed. The problem is that "continuous" and "pulsed" are a bit arbitrary and each manufacturer may have a different way of measuring those. Further, there's a fine line between pulsed and continuous, especially if you're chain-vaping; you could be pulsing the device so often that you're basically overworking the battery into "continuous" territory. That's why most people recommend not exceeding the "Maximum Continuous" amp rating, because there are just too many variables that could end up being a serious problem.
If it's in, say, a mod that you take one or two hits off of and then put aside for half an hour, it'll probably be okay if you're going over that 30A limit (or whatever the VTC5's Max Continuous limit is.) Please note that I emphasize probably, not definitely. If it's a mod that's getting regular use, I wouldn't go over that Max Continuous rating, and quite frankly I'd try to stay well under it. Ohm's Law says 0.14 Ohms (on a 4.2v charge) is hitting 30 Amps, so you're potentially into dangerous territory with fresh batteries. You won't even go under 30 amps until the battery drops down to 3.8 volts, so you're over the line for quite a while.
I dunno, I just get really weird when I see people trying to push it too much. The benefits don't even come close to outweighing the potential danger involved. Even a 0.2 Ohm coil is going to keep you well under the limit, only pulling around 21 amps on a fresh battery. I personally don't think it's worth being a human guinea pig to see how much of a safety margin is built into any battery. That's something you'll have to decide for yourself, but I think you're too far over the safety line. Seriously, just make a new coil with one more wrap on it or something.
EDITED: I just realized the MNKE's are rated for 20A continuous, not 30A. I wouldn't want someone coming across this in the future and getting the wrong info.
So what's the pulsed amp rating for the VTC5's? Dunno. I spent the last hour or so poking around and couldn't find an official spec sheet (I have a feeling it's on one of Sony's Japanese-only websites, which are impossible to navigate unless you read Japanese.) Most of the time, if a battery has a 30 Amp "Continuous" rating, its pulsed-used rating will be around 50-60 Amps. As an example, the orange MNKE 18650's (the 1500mAh ones) are rated for
If it's in, say, a mod that you take one or two hits off of and then put aside for half an hour, it'll probably be okay if you're going over that 30A limit (or whatever the VTC5's Max Continuous limit is.) Please note that I emphasize probably, not definitely. If it's a mod that's getting regular use, I wouldn't go over that Max Continuous rating, and quite frankly I'd try to stay well under it. Ohm's Law says 0.14 Ohms (on a 4.2v charge) is hitting 30 Amps, so you're potentially into dangerous territory with fresh batteries. You won't even go under 30 amps until the battery drops down to 3.8 volts, so you're over the line for quite a while.
I dunno, I just get really weird when I see people trying to push it too much. The benefits don't even come close to outweighing the potential danger involved. Even a 0.2 Ohm coil is going to keep you well under the limit, only pulling around 21 amps on a fresh battery. I personally don't think it's worth being a human guinea pig to see how much of a safety margin is built into any battery. That's something you'll have to decide for yourself, but I think you're too far over the safety line. Seriously, just make a new coil with one more wrap on it or something.
EDITED: I just realized the MNKE's are rated for 20A continuous, not 30A. I wouldn't want someone coming across this in the future and getting the wrong info.
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