The costs of running this huge site are paid for by ads. Please consider registering and becoming a Supporting Member for an ad-free experience. Thanks, ECF team.

Battery load

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Eric Superczynski, Nov 19, 2019.

Tags:
Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    Not sure this is the proper forum for this question but...

    I have a pair of Sony VTC4' which are rated at 30A cdr. But mooch rates them at 23A. I have a pair of alians and am pushing 160w and there's still a pretty slow ramp-up time. 160w in my dual cell mod pulls 25.8A cdr. Is this safe? Can I go higher with these cells?
     
  2. GOMuniEsq

    GOMuniEsq Self-Proclaimed Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 25, 2012
    Alberta, Canada
    It's not safe according to our rigorous standards, so proceed with caution.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    So the Samsung 20s would be a good buy until I find my way to purchasing a three cell mod? This seems to be the highest rated cdr I can find according to Mooches recommendations.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Yes – the Samsung 20S is the highest CDR rating of all 18650 batteries. and would be good for up to 180 watts for a dual cell device.

    Use a lower mass coil? No need to try and vape 20lb coils
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    Well I just want to give a bunch of them a try. Haven't used RBA's in quite some time so I'm just curious about all these coils. The simple Clapton was the big thing before I relapsed to butts. Ive been using a stick prince for a couple of years and haven't looked into this stuff so I'm like a kid in a candy store.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Nothing wrong with experimenting – as long as it is performed within the means and limitations of your device and batteries. Unfortunately, you have picked coils that require wattage that exceeds your batteries CDR limits. Perhaps put the coils away until you purchase a 3 cell device or acquire a higher CDR battery. Or try just 1 coil instead of 2.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. HigherStateD

    HigherStateD Ultra Member

    Mar 11, 2019
    Also, that 25.8A you're reading off your mod screen isn't the amp draw of the batteries but instead what is being pushed to the coil.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    That's not from my mod, it's from the series regulated mod formula. 160w/2=80/3.1(minimum voltage)=25.8a
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    I'm going to be purchasing the 20s's, but for the moment would it would be safe to exceed mooch's vtc4's recommended 23a cdr with a fresh charge considering max cdr is calculated using minimum voltage.
     
  10. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    3.1 volts maybe a little low, what device are you using? A 90% device efficiency is also usually factored in unless you know the true efficiency of the device.

    So if 3.1 volts is your true cut off, that would be 160w/2 cells/3.1 cut off/0.9 efficiency = 28.7 amps.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  11. Topwater Elvis

    Topwater Elvis Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    Texas
    It is never " safe " to exceed any cells CDR.

    Are you sure your power device has a 3.1v low voltage cut off?

    Not unusual for low voltage cut offs in regulated power devices to range between 3.4v & 2.8v.

    I always use 3v when calculating amp drain if I haven't accurately measured low v cut off.

    Seems it would be far simpler to ditch the high mass coils in favor of something that would be substantially more efficient and provide the vape quality you're looking for.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  12. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Unless you put your device on a scope and measure its true outputs objectively, then we are dealing with unknowns. When mitigating risk, unknowns has to be factored in and compensated for. The calculations performed are best case scenarios and not true representations of what is actually going on. Your device maybe only 75% efficient, therefore your wattage, even with full 4.2 volt charge, could still exceed the batteries CDR rating. Could also mean you are vastly exceeding the CDR at 3.1 volts. Your device may also not be accurate in its wattage output. It is not uncommon for a device to exceed the prescribed wattage – perhaps 160 watts is actually 170. OR…it could be even less, like 120 watts. These are not the most accurate devices.

    It is good practice to give a little head room and not run your batteries at their fullest CDR extent. It just less stress on your batteries and allows for other variances.

    2 amps above a batteries CDR rating does not sound like alot. But we have to set a base line in order to mitigate risk. Otherwise, 2 amps could turn into 10 amps, or even 20 amps. And before you know it, you are dealing with an exploding battery and perhaps injury. It’s not worth it just for the sake of experimenting with a high mass coil. I know you want to vape at higher wattage, and that is fine – but I can not recommend exceeding the batteries CDR.

    Give the coil a pre heat if you really want to try it. Take a short draw then quickly take another normal draw. The coil will not drop back to room temperature therefore you lessen the ramp up time with the second draw.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    3.1v is low, but for safety. It's closer to 3.25v I think. I'm using the Aegis Legand and the manual isn't very clear on wether I get a warning at 6.6v+/-.01v or it cuts off. I keep forgetting the efficiency.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    I understand and agree. Situationly I'm stuck in a spot for week many week and a half. Biggest problem is I'm waiting on some coils to get here and had to exchange my tool kit from Amazon for the second time (they are so effin cheap). I also didn't realize the vtc4's were only 23a. I would have expected Sony to be more accurate.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Low voltage cut off can vary - battery sag can trigger a low voltage error prior to the battery reaching that 3.2 volt cut off. If you haven’t seen it, Mooch has made a video on battery voltage sag.

    Device efficiency is unknown for the majority of devices we use. And not an exact figure for the devices that disclose their efficiency ratings such as DNA’s and Yihi. It is not a static number and can vary depending on wattage.

    The Aegis Legend is a pretty accurate device….one of the more accurate I’ve seen come out of China. But still has it deficiencies which could mean 160 watts is actually a little higher. By how much needs to objectively measured via a scope.


     
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Sony would test within lab environments which are not standardized. A 25 or 30 amp CDR rating (for this particular cell) could be accomplished should the battery meet certain conditions, such as temperature. These batteries are NOT designed for vape devices therefore the conditions are always a major factor. Mooch does tests under lab conditions, but those conditions more represent a vaping environment…ie: room temperature. You can see within his test that at a 30 amp draw at room temp the cell reached 97°C, which he feels poses a higher risk…so he gives them a lower CDR rating.

    But should the cell be utilized for it intended purpose, perhaps a mechanically cooled battery pack, then 30 amp CDR rating could be accomplished. I do not think they are incorrectly rated, just not rated as per our intended use.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
  17. Eric Superczynski

    Eric Superczynski Senior Member

    Nov 2, 2019
    Naples
    So I just recieved the Samsung 20s. You think "The Battery Store" Is a reputable dealer? Dont want to get stuck with a questionable like the orbtronic.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. Punk In Drublic

    Punk In Drublic Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2018
    Toronto, ON
    Mooch list 18650batterystore.com as a trusted source – if this is where you purchased your Samsung 20S’s from, I would trust Mooch’s recommendation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  19. classwife

    classwife Admin Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Moved to Batteries and Chargers from General Vaping Discussion
     
  20. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Two different kinds of stores. The Battery Store is a brick and mortar chain like Radio Shack. 18650 Batteries is an online supplier.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice