Battery load

Status
Not open for further replies.

Eric Superczynski

Senior Member
Nov 2, 2019
100
83
42
Naples
Yes – the Samsung 20S is the highest CDR rating of all 18650 batteries. and would be good for up to 180 watts for a dual cell device.

Use a lower mass coil? No need to try and vape 20lb coils
Well I just want to give a bunch of them a try. Haven't used RBA's in quite some time so I'm just curious about all these coils. The simple Clapton was the big thing before I relapsed to butts. Ive been using a stick prince for a couple of years and haven't looked into this stuff so I'm like a kid in a candy store.
 

Punk In Drublic

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Aug 28, 2018
4,194
17,515
Toronto, ON
Well I just want to give a bunch of them a try. Haven't used RBA's in quite some time so I'm just curious about all these coils. The simple Clapton was the big thing before I relapsed to butts. Ive been using a stick prince for a couple of years and haven't looked into this stuff so I'm like a kid in a candy store.

Nothing wrong with experimenting – as long as it is performed within the means and limitations of your device and batteries. Unfortunately, you have picked coils that require wattage that exceeds your batteries CDR limits. Perhaps put the coils away until you purchase a 3 cell device or acquire a higher CDR battery. Or try just 1 coil instead of 2.
 

Eric Superczynski

Senior Member
Nov 2, 2019
100
83
42
Naples
Nothing wrong with experimenting – as long as it is performed within the means and limitations of your device and batteries. Unfortunately, you have picked coils that require wattage that exceeds your batteries CDR limits. Perhaps put the coils away until you purchase a 3 cell device or acquire a higher CDR battery. Or try just 1 coil instead of 2.
I'm going to be purchasing the 20s's, but for the moment would it would be safe to exceed mooch's vtc4's recommended 23a cdr with a fresh charge considering max cdr is calculated using minimum voltage.
 

Punk In Drublic

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Aug 28, 2018
4,194
17,515
Toronto, ON
That's not from my mod, it's from the series regulated mod formula. 160w/2=80/3.1(minimum voltage)=25.8a

3.1 volts maybe a little low, what device are you using? A 90% device efficiency is also usually factored in unless you know the true efficiency of the device.

So if 3.1 volts is your true cut off, that would be 160w/2 cells/3.1 cut off/0.9 efficiency = 28.7 amps.
 

Topwater Elvis

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Dec 26, 2012
7,116
16,502
Texas
It is never " safe " to exceed any cells CDR.

Are you sure your power device has a 3.1v low voltage cut off?

Not unusual for low voltage cut offs in regulated power devices to range between 3.4v & 2.8v.

I always use 3v when calculating amp drain if I haven't accurately measured low v cut off.

Seems it would be far simpler to ditch the high mass coils in favor of something that would be substantially more efficient and provide the vape quality you're looking for.
 
Last edited:

Punk In Drublic

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Aug 28, 2018
4,194
17,515
Toronto, ON
I'm going to be purchasing the 20s's, but for the moment would it would be safe to exceed mooch's vtc4's recommended 23a cdr with a fresh charge considering max cdr is calculated using minimum voltage.

Unless you put your device on a scope and measure its true outputs objectively, then we are dealing with unknowns. When mitigating risk, unknowns has to be factored in and compensated for. The calculations performed are best case scenarios and not true representations of what is actually going on. Your device maybe only 75% efficient, therefore your wattage, even with full 4.2 volt charge, could still exceed the batteries CDR rating. Could also mean you are vastly exceeding the CDR at 3.1 volts. Your device may also not be accurate in its wattage output. It is not uncommon for a device to exceed the prescribed wattage – perhaps 160 watts is actually 170. OR…it could be even less, like 120 watts. These are not the most accurate devices.

It is good practice to give a little head room and not run your batteries at their fullest CDR extent. It just less stress on your batteries and allows for other variances.

2 amps above a batteries CDR rating does not sound like alot. But we have to set a base line in order to mitigate risk. Otherwise, 2 amps could turn into 10 amps, or even 20 amps. And before you know it, you are dealing with an exploding battery and perhaps injury. It’s not worth it just for the sake of experimenting with a high mass coil. I know you want to vape at higher wattage, and that is fine – but I can not recommend exceeding the batteries CDR.

Give the coil a pre heat if you really want to try it. Take a short draw then quickly take another normal draw. The coil will not drop back to room temperature therefore you lessen the ramp up time with the second draw.
 

Eric Superczynski

Senior Member
Nov 2, 2019
100
83
42
Naples
3.1 volts maybe a little low, what device are you using? A 90% device efficiency is also usually factored in unless you know the true efficiency of the device.

So if 3.1 volts is your true cut off, that would be 160w/2 cells/3.1 cut off/0.9 efficiency = 28.7 amps.
3.1v is low, but for safety. It's closer to 3.25v I think. I'm using the Aegis Legand and the manual isn't very clear on wether I get a warning at 6.6v+/-.01v or it cuts off. I keep forgetting the efficiency.
 

Eric Superczynski

Senior Member
Nov 2, 2019
100
83
42
Naples
Unless you put your device on a scope and measure its true outputs objectively, then we are dealing with unknowns. When mitigating risk, unknowns has to be factored in and compensated for. The calculations performed are best case scenarios and not true representations of what is actually going on. Your device maybe only 75% efficient, therefore your wattage, even with full 4.2 volt charge, could still exceed the batteries CDR rating. Could also mean you are vastly exceeding the CDR at 3.1 volts. Your device may also not be accurate in its wattage output. It is not uncommon for a device to exceed the prescribed wattage – perhaps 160 watts is actually 170. OR…it could be even less, like 120 watts. These are not the most accurate devices.

It is good practice to give a little head room and not run your batteries at their fullest CDR extent. It just less stress on your batteries and allows for other variances.

2 amps above a batteries CDR rating does not sound like alot. But we have to set a base line in order to mitigate risk. Otherwise, 2 amps could turn into 10 amps, or even 20 amps. And before you know it, you are dealing with an exploding battery and perhaps injury. It’s not worth it just for the sake of experimenting with a high mass coil. I know you want to vape at higher wattage, and that is fine – but I can not recommend exceeding the batteries CDR.

Give the coil a pre heat if you really want to try it. Take a short draw then quickly take another normal draw. The coil will not drop back to room temperature therefore you lessen the ramp up time with the second draw.
I understand and agree. Situationly I'm stuck in a spot for week many week and a half. Biggest problem is I'm waiting on some coils to get here and had to exchange my tool kit from Amazon for the second time (they are so effin cheap). I also didn't realize the vtc4's were only 23a. I would have expected Sony to be more accurate.
 
Last edited:

Punk In Drublic

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Aug 28, 2018
4,194
17,515
Toronto, ON
3.1v is low, but for safety. It's closer to 3.25v I think. I'm using the Aegis Legand and the manual isn't very clear on wether I get a warning at 6.6v+/-.01v or it cuts off. I keep forgetting the efficiency.

Low voltage cut off can vary - battery sag can trigger a low voltage error prior to the battery reaching that 3.2 volt cut off. If you haven’t seen it, Mooch has made a video on battery voltage sag.

Device efficiency is unknown for the majority of devices we use. And not an exact figure for the devices that disclose their efficiency ratings such as DNA’s and Yihi. It is not a static number and can vary depending on wattage.

The Aegis Legend is a pretty accurate device….one of the more accurate I’ve seen come out of China. But still has it deficiencies which could mean 160 watts is actually a little higher. By how much needs to objectively measured via a scope.


 

Punk In Drublic

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Aug 28, 2018
4,194
17,515
Toronto, ON
I understand and agree. Situationly I'm stuck in a spot for week many week and a half. Biggest problem is I'm waiting on some coils to get here and had to exchange my tool kit from Amazon for the second time (they are so effin cheap). I also didn't realize the vtc4's were only 23a. I would have expected Sony to be more accurate.

Sony would test within lab environments which are not standardized. A 25 or 30 amp CDR rating (for this particular cell) could be accomplished should the battery meet certain conditions, such as temperature. These batteries are NOT designed for vape devices therefore the conditions are always a major factor. Mooch does tests under lab conditions, but those conditions more represent a vaping environment…ie: room temperature. You can see within his test that at a 30 amp draw at room temp the cell reached 97°C, which he feels poses a higher risk…so he gives them a lower CDR rating.

But should the cell be utilized for it intended purpose, perhaps a mechanically cooled battery pack, then 30 amp CDR rating could be accomplished. I do not think they are incorrectly rated, just not rated as per our intended use.
 

Eric Superczynski

Senior Member
Nov 2, 2019
100
83
42
Naples
Sony would test within lab environments which are not standardized. A 25 or 30 amp CDR rating (for this particular cell) could be accomplished should the battery meet certain conditions, such as temperature. These batteries are NOT designed for vape devices therefore the conditions are always a major factor. Mooch does tests under lab conditions, but those conditions more represent a vaping environment…ie: room temperature. You can see within his test that at a 30 amp draw at room temp the cell reached 97°C, which he feels poses a higher risk…so he gives them a lower CDR rating.

But should the cell be utilized for it intended purpose, perhaps a mechanically cooled battery pack, then 30 amp CDR rating could be accomplished. I do not think they are incorrectly rated, just not rated as per our intended use.
So I just recieved the Samsung 20s. You think "The Battery Store" Is a reputable dealer? Dont want to get stuck with a questionable like the orbtronic.
 

Punk In Drublic

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Aug 28, 2018
4,194
17,515
Toronto, ON
So I just recieved the Samsung 20s. You think "The Battery Store" Is a reputable dealer? Dont want to get stuck with a questionable like the orbtronic.

Mooch list 18650batterystore.com as a trusted source – if this is where you purchased your Samsung 20S’s from, I would trust Mooch’s recommendation.
 

Baditude

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Apr 8, 2012
30,394
73,072
70
Ridgeway, Ohio
So I just recieved the Samsung 20s. You think "The Battery Store" Is a reputable dealer? Dont want to get stuck with a questionable like the orbtronic.

Mooch list 18650batterystore.com as a trusted source – if this is where you purchased your Samsung 20S’s from, I would trust Mooch’s recommendation.
Two different kinds of stores. The Battery Store is a brick and mortar chain like Radio Shack. 18650 Batteries is an online supplier.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread