Battery risk with mechanical mods -- sub-ohm?

[IndubitablyMe]

I recently purchased a Smoktech Magneto, which is my first mechanical mod. Before this, I've only used APVs with built-in protection and to be quite honest the mechanicals frighten me a little. I use RDAs almost exclusively and am worried about shorts, plus I like being able to check the battery level and feel safe knowing that it will not fire if the battery is too low.

Anyway, I LOVE the Magneto. Built a 1.1 ohm coil immediately and it's been vaping tremendously. I'd like to go lower and dwell in the sub-ohms but I'm a little scared of something going horribly wrong. My main question concerns the batteries. Right now I have three 18650s that I used with my old Vamo.

Two of these: CGR18650CH Panasonic 18650 Li-Mn-Li-ion CGR18650CH High Drain 10A Rechargeable IMR Hybrid Battery Cell

One of these: Efest IMR18650 2000mAh 3.7V Rechargeable LiMn battery - button top

Is there any inherent risk in using these particular batteries in a sub-ohm setup?
What about a dual-coil sub-ohm setup, where both coils are around 1.5, making the final resistance .7?
Are they okay if I keep it 1.0 ohms or above?
What would happen if I accidentally discharged them beyond where they should?
Is there a better type of battery I can use with sub-ohm, or with a mechanical mod in general?
They all are apparently IMR -- is ICR or NCR worse for this kind of setup? What is the difference?
If my coil somehow shorts and I'm left with no resistance, what could happen?
Would it be wise to use a kick? or will that negatively impact my ability to do sub-ohm vaping?

Thank you in advance for your help. Every time I feel like I've got once aspect of vaping mastered I try something else where I'm totally outside my comfort level.

 

[crxess]

They all are apparently IMR -- is ICR or NCR worse for this kind of setup? What is the difference?

Battery chemistry
Stick with IMR Batteries
Above 1.0ohm should be no problem
Vapor production and flavor will drop off as battery reaches recharge stage. Just pay attention to your vape.
Those Batteries should be good for .8ohm applications.
For lower ohms - purchase quality 20-30a rated IMR Batteries

Kick is great for regulating output, more in the 1.3ohm and up range. Would not recommend trying in sub ohm applications. Kick-2 is rated lowest ohm capable with all others 1.2+ohms recommended

 

[ACIDXFX]

4.2V @ .7 Ohms would be about 6 amps, which would be alright for your batteries. For lower builds, you would want to pick up a 20 - 30 amp battery like and EFest or Panasonic.

There is some rule about staying a certain bit below the battery's amp rating. I think it was 20%? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[IndubitablyMe]

I'm having a hard time finding the amp rating. It doesn't say anywhere on the batteries themselves. From the description of the Panasonics that I have they are a 10A max, but I can't find it anywhere on the Efest. Also, what is the equation you used to determine that 4.2V @ .7 ohms is amps?

 

[snow blind]

I'm having a hard time finding the amp rating. It doesn't say anywhere on the batteries themselves. From the description of the Panasonics that I have they are a 10A max, but I can't find it anywhere on the Efest. Also, what is the equation you used to determine that 4.2V @ .7 ohms is amps?

Ohms law

Ohm's Law Calculator

 

[IndubitablyMe]

Thanks, snow blind. I knew how to check watts with omhs law, but had know idea about amps. Took me a minute to realize that amps were "current" (I don't have plans on becoming an electrical engineer anytime soon, thankfully) but I get it now.

Would this be a good recommendation regarding batteries to get? Amazon.com: (2 Pieces) 30A Sony 18650 Battery 1600mAh 3.7V High Drain US18650VTC3: Cell Phones & Accessories

Are they optimal for just sub-ohm or can I use them as my main batteries regardless of the resistance? Will they last me a whole day or will they drain faster? What other benefits do a 30A battery have aside from working with a sub-ohm setup -- ie more consistent vape, etc??

 

[Mr343]

I wish I had the link to a chart that someone posted once... maybe someone here does but for short here is my ohms law sheet i have at my bench for quick reference. After time you will now it by heart but is always great to have on hand for the question in the back of your mind.

All these I give you will be for a fresh charge on your battery at 4.2 volts. Know amps will drop with the charge but I always use the fresh charge for voltage as my the bench mark of safety


1 ohm = 4.20 amps
.9 ohms = 4.67 amps
.8 ohms = 5.25 amps
.7 ohms = 6 amps
.6 ohms = 7 amps
.5 ohms = 8.4 amps
.4 ohms = 10.5 amps
.3 ohms = 14 amps
.2 ohms = 21 amps
.1 ohms = 42 amps

For the resistance you have mentioned above I feel you are fine with down to a .7 but that also comes from my devices and personnel experience. I would take the high road and just tell you to get some Sony VTC4 batteries and call it a day. Good for nearly all coils (but .1 ohm....who vape that...LOL) and will give you better performance even out of your 1 ohm builds as well. Just always keep an eye on heat in the tube and or switch. If you feel any extra heat then just stop, take your battery out and feel it. If it is hot then you have an issue... if not then you are good. I know that seems like a cop out so to speak but trust me it is you safety for this.... you and your gut nothing else so trust your self and you will be fine. I do this and this alone and feel it is completely safe. But I have some time on my side for it. To each their own. Only advise I can give for sure in the sub ohm realm.... is start slow and feel your way into the deep end all will be good.

Hope this is of use for you have a great day.

 

[ACIDXFX]

Simplified:

Amps(Current) = Voltage/Resistance

Using simple algebra, you can get the answer as long as you have two of those. The other equation that is useful is wattage, which is

Power (Watts) = (Voltage * Voltage)/Resistance

 

[IndubitablyMe]

So I guess the Sony 30A batteries are universally thought of as the best you can get for sub-ohm? I keep seeing them everywhere at online vape shops now that I'm looking. Question: The only difference I can see between the VTC3 and the VTC4 is 1600mah vs 2000 mah. ?? Can never go wrong with a longer-lasting battery, so I guess the point is moot anyway. Also, I have an Intellicharger i2 -- will this charge the Sonys well enough or should I invest in something better?

 

[ACIDXFX]

I use the Nitecore i2 for my EFest IMR's. Charges them fairly quickly. It will work just fine. There are chargers with more features I believe, but I think you will be fine starting out.

 

[IndubitablyMe]

I use the Nitecore i2 for my EFest IMR's. Charges them fairly quickly. It will work just fine. There are chargers with more features I believe, but I think you will be fine starting out.

Are they 30A IMRs? It seems to work well with the Efest I have now, but I don't know if more amps means it needs a more robust charger. Also, does anyone know of a good online retailer to purchase the VTC4 from? Fast and cheap shipping with a low price would be ideal. Maybe somewhere that has good juice too so I could try something new.

 

[Mr343]

Are they 30A IMRs? It seems to work well with the Efest I have now, but I don't know if more amps means it needs a more robust charger. Also, does anyone know of a good online retailer to purchase the VTC4 from? Fast and cheap shipping with a low price would be ideal. Maybe somewhere that has good juice too so I could try something new.

That charger will be great no matter what battery you charge on it... I use the same thing but the four bay version...

Cannot say if the Sony VTC4's are "The best battery" or not.. but they are indeed very very good...! Once you have batteries of this quality so to speak, then it is just spitting hairs at that point. I have other brands that are very good as well, but I like these best and the curve they deliver.

 

[Baditude]

There's really no reason in this day and age to use protected ICR (Li-ion) batteries. IMR (Li-Mn) and the new hybrid (NCR/INR) batteries are safer and perform better in more applications.

Here's a list of recommended IMR and hybrid batteries, with their amp (continuous discharge) rating. Unless you are doing sub-ohms, any 18650 IMR or hybrid 10 amp battery will suffice for general purpose vaping.

If using sub-ohms below 0.8 ohm, you should use one of the higher amp batteries (16 - 30 amp). You can use a 20 - 30 amp battery for general purpose applications, but all those amps are kinda over-kill. You can get more mAh (longer battery time) with a 10 amp general purpose IMR/hybrid.

AW IMR
18650 2000mah 10Amp CDR
18650 1600mah 24A
18490 (1100mah) 16.5A
18350 ​(700mah) 6A

MNKE IMR
18650 1500mah ​20A

Panasonic ​or Orbtronic hybrid
CGR18650CH (IMR/hybrid) 2250mAh 10A
NCR18650PF (LiNiCOMnO2) INR/ICR/IMR Hybrid 2900mAh 10A
NCR18650PD (LiNiCoAl) 2900mAh 10A
Orbtronic 18650 SX22 (hybrid) 2000mAh 22A
Orbtronic 18650 SX30 (hybrid) 2100mAh ​30A

Sanyo
UR18650EX 2000mAh 20A

Samsung hybrid (LiNiCoMnP)
INR18650-22P 2200mAh 10A
INR18650-20R 2000mah 22A

Sony hybrid
us18650v3 IMR 2250mAh 10A
us18650vct3 1600mAh 30A
us18650vtc4 2100 mAh 30A

EH IMR
18650 2000 mAh 16A
18650 1500 mAh 22A
18500 1100 mAh 8.8A
18350 800 mAh 6.4A

Efest IMR
18650 (IMR/hybrid) 2250mAh 10A
18650 2000mAh 10A
18650 1600mAh 30A
18490 1100mah 8.8A
18350 800mah 6.4A

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected ICR?

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries

Mechanical Mod Proper Usage Guide

 

[IndubitablyMe]

There's really no reason in this day and age to use protected ICR (Li-ion) batteries. IMR (Li-Mn) and the new hybrid batteries are safer and perform better in more applications.

Here's a list of recommended IMR and hybrid batteries, with their amp (continuous discharge) rating. Unless you are doing sub-ohms, any 18650 IMR or hybrid 10 amp battery will suffice for general purpose vaping.

If using sub-ohms below 0.8 ohm, you should use one of the higher amp batteries (16 - 30 amp). You can use a 20 - 30 amp battery for general purpose applications, but all those amps are kinda over-kill. You can get more mAh (longer battery time) with a 10 amp general purpose IMR/hybrid.

AW IMR
18650 2000mah 10Amp CDR
18650 1600mah 24A
18490 (1100mah) 16.5A
18350 ​(700mah) 6A

MNKE IMR
18650 1500mah ​20A

Panasonic ​or Orbtronic hybrid
CGR18650CH (IMR/hybrid) 2250mAh 10A
NCR18650PF (LiNiCOMnO2) INR/ICR/IMR Hybrid 2900mAh 10A
NCR18650PD (LiNiCoAl) 2900mAh 10A
Orbtronic 18650 SX22 (hybrid) 2000mAh 22A
Orbtronic 18650 SX30 (hybrid) 2100mAh ​30A

Sanyo
UR18650EX 2000mAh 20A

Samsung hybrid (LiNiCoMnP)
INR18650-22P 2200mAh 10A
INR18650-20R 2000mah 22A

Sony hybrid
us18650v3 IMR 2250mAh 10A
us18650vct3 1600mAh 30A
us18650vtc4 2100 mAh 30A

EH IMR
18650 2000 mAh 16A
18650 1500 mAh 22A
18500 1100 mAh 8.8A
18350 800 mAh 6.4A

Efest IMR
18650 (IMR/hybrid) 2250mAh 10A
18650 2000mAh 10A
18650 1600mAh 30A
18490 1100mah 8.8A
18350 800mah 6.4A

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected ICR?

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries

Mechanical Mod Proper Usage Guide

I wish I could like your post 12 times, Baditude. Great links and a fantastic video as well. All of my questions have been answered, plus others I didn't even think of. With this knowledge I now feel very prepared to delve into mechanical mods and sub-ohm vaping. Thank you!

 

[ACIDXFX]

Are they 30A IMRs? It seems to work well with the Efest I have now, but I don't know if more amps means it needs a more robust charger. Also, does anyone know of a good online retailer to purchase the VTC4 from? Fast and cheap shipping with a low price would be ideal. Maybe somewhere that has good juice too so I could try something new.

Yes, I have the 30A EFests. That doesn't make a difference though. The only thing that affects charging time will be the mah (Milliamp hours...I think) rating. I have 1600MAH EFests.

 

[tayone415]

I recently purchased a Smoktech Magneto, which is my first mechanical mod. Before this, I've only used APVs with built-in protection and to be quite honest the mechanicals frighten me a little. I use RDAs almost exclusively and am worried about shorts, plus I like being able to check the battery level and feel safe knowing that it will not fire if the battery is too low.

Anyway, I LOVE the Magneto. Built a 1.1 ohm coil immediately and it's been vaping tremendously. I'd like to go lower and dwell in the sub-ohms but I'm a little scared of something going horribly wrong. My main question concerns the batteries. Right now I have three 18650s that I used with my old Vamo.

Two of these: CGR18650CH Panasonic 18650 Li-Mn-Li-ion CGR18650CH High Drain 10A Rechargeable IMR Hybrid Battery Cell

One of these: Efest IMR18650 2000mAh 3.7V Rechargeable LiMn battery - button top

Is there any inherent risk in using these particular batteries in a sub-ohm setup?
What about a dual-coil sub-ohm setup, where both coils are around 1.5, making the final resistance .7?
Are they okay if I keep it 1.0 ohms or above?
What would happen if I accidentally discharged them beyond where they should?
Is there a better type of battery I can use with sub-ohm, or with a mechanical mod in general?
They all are apparently IMR -- is ICR or NCR worse for this kind of setup? What is the difference?
If my coil somehow shorts and I'm left with no resistance, what could happen?
Would it be wise to use a kick? or will that negatively impact my ability to do sub-ohm vaping?

Thank you in advance for your help. Every time I feel like I've got once aspect of vaping mastered I try something else where I'm totally outside my comfort level.

Easy answer go for the Sony VTC5 18650 batteries they're a 2600 mah battery with 30 continuous amps and can be bought online or in store between $9-20 each so shop around. With these batteries you can vape as low as 0.18 ohms safely and still be under the 80% of the continuous power for a safety cushion of the VTC5, just watch your battery readings for safety as the lower the ohms the higher the draw and you're battery and juice will run down quicker.

 

[weinner]

I been thinking about trying the Orbtronic 18650 SX30 (hybrid) 2100mAh ​best out. Anybody using them and liking them? Do they offer anything that my Sony vtc5 batteries don't?


EDIT: nvm, I found a thread about them.

 

[tayone415]

I been thinking about trying the Orbtronic 18650 SX30 (hybrid) 2100mAh ​best out. Anybody using them and liking them? Do they offer anything that my Sony vtc5 batteries don't?

Just looking at the quick overview on their website there's not much information, but obviosly you would be getting 500 less mah than the VTC5. The one thing I really like about the VTC5 is that even when pushing my battery between 0.17-0.48 ohms, my battery has never gotten hot, only warm.

 

[supertrunker]

i use them and like them, and no they don't. They are if i recall a pic i saw, rebadged Sony vtc4's.

But they are solid reliable batteries and i have been using mine for about 6 months now, in rotation with coils of 0.3Ω. They make me more attractive to women and look 20 years younger Worth the money.

T