Battery Voltages -- Surprise!

[Bjorn Toulouse]

I have followed this thread for some time. From what was posted I thought I would try a mechanical switch big battery mod for the 510.

Conclusions after a week with the big bat mod.

not noticable.

For me I could not tell the difference between an EGO and a make or break type non electronic big bat mod.

So if the difference is a potential wattage gain of around 40% I never noticed it.

Just my observations.

 

[BanjoMan]

Scottbee

Are you saying that if a connect a LR atty like those sold by NHALER that I will burn out and ego or 510 battery?

Naw. When a LR atty is put on a Tornado/eGo battery it ends up drawing about 2A.. which is still in the "safe range".

But you can run into problems when a atomizer or cartomizer "goes bad", or for some other reason drops below about 1Ω.

Scottbee, could you elaborate a little more on this subject?

A lot of us are running LR attys on various power sources (myself a Bartleby/14500). There seems to be differing opinion on what the excess draw of the LR's is doing to the batteries. Some sources say we should be using only high drain batteries with these attys to avoid a possible failure/venting situation - others are saying that at the worst we might be shortening the battery life a bit.... nothing more.

Do you have an opinion on this?

 

[Scottbee]

Scottbee, could you elaborate a little more on this subject?

A lot of us are running LR attys on various power sources (myself a Bartleby/14500). There seems to be differing opinion on what the excess draw of the LR's is doing to the batteries. Some sources say we should be using only high drain batteries with these attys to avoid a possible failure/venting situation - others are saying that at the worst we might be shortening the battery life a bit.... nothing more.

Do you have an opinion on this?

OK... here is my opinion on the subject:

You should only be running protected batteries, or un-protected batteries on a device that provides its own form of protection.

If that is done, and it is done properly, "venting" or battery immolation should not occur.

Now, with respect to the eGo, Tornado, Riva, and probably the MaxX / T-Rex. They do not run "protected" batteries per-se. They have circuitry that is supposed to "protect" the battery, but the original design was blown and/or has a flaw in it, and it "smells" like everybody else copied the flaw. Strange, eh? When presented with "very low" resistance (shorted or near-shorted atomizer/cartomizer) the protection circuitry may catch it, or it may not. If the circuitry doesn't do its job (which is sadly common) the output FET will fail. Sometimes they fail "open", other times they fail "closed" (ON). When that happens, the atomizer/cartomizer will continue to get current. Ultimately, hopefully something else will then fail.. be it a trace on the printed circuit board, the atomizer/cartomizer (which is probably already shorted), internal wiring.. or heaven forbid.. the battery will expand and vent. I haven't seen this happen yet... but it is completely possible.

With respect to overall battery life... an unused battery will last forever. A battery that is presented with a very very high discharge rate... will have a relatively short lifespan (charge/discharge cycles).. and everything in-between those two extremes is variable (but not linear). Bottom line, if you use a high discharge rate load (LR cartomizer or atomizer) you most likely will not get the overall lifespan out the battery that you would get if you used a HR load. I know.. I'm just stating the obvious..

 

[BanjoMan]

Interesting read Scottbee... thanks.

If I may summarize (and make an assumption) then:

1. Using a LR atty on an eGo, Riva, Tornado etc: Probably not the best idea for safety reasons.
2. Using a LR atty on a device that uses a protected battery (like a 14500, for example): Should be safe enough but will shorten the life of the battery by a noticeable amount.
3. (Assumption) Using high drain batteries with LR attys is the best available option to date, and should give something close to a "normal" life span.

Am I close?

 

[Scottbee]

Interesting read Scottbee... thanks.

If I may summarize (and make an assumption) then:

1. Using a LR atty on an eGo, Riva, Tornado etc: Probably not the best idea for safety reasons.
2. Using a LR atty on a device that uses a protected battery (like a 14500, for example): Should be safe enough but will shorten the life of the battery by a noticeable amount.
3. (Assumption) Using high drain batteries with LR attys is the best available option to date, and should give something close to a "normal" life span.

Am I close?

Well....

Re: #1) Actually, using any atomizer or cartomizer on a Riva, eGo, Tornado, MaxX, T-Rex or similar device "isn't the best idea for safety reasons". Any atomizer or cartomizer can short out or have a short from the factory (not just LR units). I've seen it happen time and time again. And when they have a short or near short... it can ruin the battery (or, heaven forbid, worse).

Re: #3) I find "high drain" to be a nebulous term... and I personally don't have enough experience (or technical data) on the various "high drain" batteries to speak with any kind of authority at all. I would be speculating at best.

 

[Scottbee]

Todays fun fact: The printed circuit board inside of the Riva (perhaps even the entire unit) is manufactured by "Hello".. and in my opinion it is by-far the easiest unit to repair after a FET failure.

(The MaxX / T-Rex may actually be easier since they tend to fall apart all by themselves)

 

[BanjoMan]

Scottbee, you remain - Da Man!

Thanks much for your insight.

 

[DC2]

Scottbee, you're just the guy I want to see.


Every now and then I have been using my LR atomizers on my stock 510 (180mah) baterries.
What is the worst thing that might happen?

 

[Scottbee]

Scottbee, you're just the guy I want to see.


Every now and then I have been using my LR atomizers on my stock 510 (180mah) baterries.
What is the worst thing that might happen?

DC2,

As you well know, all electronic and electrical devices run on smoke (no, not vapor!). If you let the smoke out, they cease to function....

I have actually done this myself.. I have even gone as far as to charge one/them on my TorneGo "quick charger". The worst thing that I have ever personally seen happen is that the nice blue glow that typically comes from the LED ash cap turned red/orange (honest)... then the smoke escaped.... then the LED ash cap fell/blew off.

Since the traditional 510 battery isn't "sealed", it wasn't as horrific as one might think. Startling.. yes.. horrific, no.

This isn't to say that the scenario might not end in a substantially more impressive manner...

 

[DC2]

I had heard that when a little 180mah 510 battery goes, it's much more a whimper than a bang.

 

[Quitter]

Fun thread, just found it and read through it. Very enlightening (especially for us Engineers)

Scottbee - did you ever expose your Dream PV Tornego to Mik over at Janty? I would think they would look at it with a long eye - or they should!!

 

[MitchW]

This has been an wonderful thread and I'm bookmarking it for further use when I get up to snuff on using my devices.

 

[Scottbee]

Scottbee - did you ever expose your Dream PV Tornego to Mik over at Janty? I would think they would look at it with a long eye - or they should!!

Mik and I had a dialogue back in January when I was finalizing the design. He's familiar with the unit.

 

[Katya]

Mik and I had a dialogue back in January when I was finalizing the design. He's familiar with the unit.

That was...laconic.

 

[Scottbee]

That was...laconic.

Laconic is a tres kewl word and I give you bonus Cupie Dolls for using it.

 

[Katya]

Laconic is a tres kewl word and I give you bonus Cupie Dolls for using it.

Kewpie dolls?

Looks like I'm going to have to change my avatar to be taken seriously here. A BMW K1600GTL? Or a beachfront, perhaps?

 

[Scottbee]

Kewpie dolls?

Looks like I'm going to have to change my avatar to be taken seriously here. A BMW K1600GTL? Or a beachfront, perhaps?

You say tomato....

Anyway.... K1600GTL, nice start. Beachfront.. nice additional touch. But you appear to be omitting the pinnacle element.

 

[Katya]

You say tomato....

Anyway.... K1600GTL, nice start. Beachfront.. nice additional touch. But you appear to be omitting the pinnacle element.

The omission is deliberate.

Mik and I had a dialogue back in January when I was finalizing the design. He's familiar with the unit.

In January. That's quite a long time ago.

Todays fun fact: The printed circuit board inside of the Riva (perhaps even the entire unit) is manufactured by "Hello".. and in my opinion it is by-far the easiest unit to repair after a FET failure.

Please forgive my curiosity. Are the engineers at Hello also familiar with your unit? Did you have a dialog with them?

Just got my Riva and I find it enormously satisfying, despite the apparent low voltage and any FET issues, whatever they may be. Actually, I find my vaping experience on the Riva to be superior to that of a kr8 (Kanger) battery, even though, on paper at least, it makes no sense. The vapor and flavor are richer, smoother, fuller and warmer with both the new eGo cartomizer (2.65 Ω) and with 510 cartos (2.9-3.0 Ω). So what accounts for this? How can one explain it? I'm not just imagining things, am I? Has the circuitry been tweaked in the Riva/Hello in comparison to the eGo?

 

[namuch]

I've been outright amazed at how well the ego/riva does with that low voltage. Totally blew me away when I found out I can get an extremely satisfying vape with it. Previously, the only way I could get anything near it was with my 5v mods.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

I had always wondered why I get more than twice the battery life, much more actually, with my 3xAA box mod with two 14500 batts in parallel that I do with a single 14500 box mod. I've been vaping on these batts for a couple of hours or so now. I get most of if not all day from two batts in this box mod. That never happened with a single bat box mod.

Anyways when I tested the batteries with no load they read 3.8v. Hit the button and the voltage drops to 3.6v, not bad. Now when I pop a battery out the voltage drops down to 3.3v under load which explains the drop off in vapor that I always had so quickly with just a single batt. I also see a difference of about 0.2v under load between having just one batt and having two. This is with a standard 2.2 ohm joye atty. An LR atty makes an even bigger difference.