Battery Voltages -- Surprise!

[BanjoMan]

A few observations:

I picked up some Joye 510 attys from HG a while back to see how they compared to my 901's. I didn't buy any 510 batts, however, as I already had a 510 Bartleby and figured the 14500 would be a better choice anyway.

I've been vaping a rather dark (but extremely tasty) tobacco/menthol blend that was building up on the atty within a day or so and knocking down the performance. Suddenly I was a losing a 510 atty every few days (some quit while vaping - others died while trying to clean them). My first thought was that I'd just gotten a bad batch of attys, but when the trend continued after a subsequent order I had to re-think everything (and yes, I was keeping them nice and wet).

As I stated earlier I didn't have any stock 510 batts to try, but I did have plenty of 901 auto batts and an adapter, so I hooked one up and started using it. I don't have the equipment to measure the voltage, but I could quickly tell that the e-liquid not only had more flavor, but that the atty wasn't getting as hot as quickly. Right now I'm on day five with this particular atty and it's still performing well. I also used an adapter to try stock 401 auto batts with the 510 atty and found that the performance was closer to the Bartleby (hotter atty with harsher taste).

Conclusions:

1. With at least certain juices, lower voltage is preferable with the 510. If the atty gets too hot in use it can bake the juice to the coil - making if difficult if not impossible to clean. It also seems to cook off the juice quicker and gives a harsher taste.

2. 901 attys seem to perform better over-all at 3.7v. I've been using a 901 with several different juices from different vendors on the Bart for months with no ill effects. In fact, I find that the higher voltage brings out the flavor of most juices better. I've also found that the 901 is more robust at higher voltage than the 510.

3. While I cannot measure it (yet), the stock M401 batteries seem to put out more voltage than their 901 counterparts. I'm waiting on some manual M401 and 901 batteries and will try to meter them when they arrive. The "in-use" difference, however, is pretty obvious.

Just my two cents...

 

[broomgal]

Marking so I don't lose track of this.

 

[Scottbee]

"BroomGal"???

You heavily into "sweeping".. or am I dealing with a WITCH?

 

[Led Hendriani]

Which witch is which?
bump! Need more battery info, brain is getting creaky...


---Sandwich

 

[dhowardpeters]

Yes.. but. Then the KR808D-1 couples that great battery voltage to a 3+ Ohm cartomizer. Knocks it right back down to ~4.5 Watt device.

Run a KR808D-1 carto at 5V and you just go "Whooooaa!".

Hi Scottbee. This thread helped me A LOT! Thanks.


I just orderd:

• mega kr808D-1 batteries with 901 and 510 attomizers (with an adapter for the 510 attys), and some cartomizers -AND-
• the Screwdriver MK1 with free extra body from Trog.

I feel so much more knowledgeable than I did, but I'm still confused about atty/carto power. Are there different power levels for attys/cartos? IOW, could you expound a little on your quote above? OR, could you direct me to a thread or give me search terms to find out more about this?

Thanks so much for the great info.

 

[lotus14]

"BroomGal"???

You heavily into "sweeping".. or am I dealing with a WITCH?

Yeah, and a WITCH who likes Dexter and his bloody knives 8-o

Excellent info Scottbee - thanks for all the research

For those who aren't aware, several vendors are now selling 5v 510 passthrough, without the battery box, for around $15. I liked mine so much I bought 2 spares.

Also, Nhaler now sells a low resistance (1.5 ohm) 510 atty that will make you think you've got 5-6v in your 3.7v mod. Without the risk of stacking batts. Even on a Joye 510 XL batt they kick very hard.

For my personal taste, I would've preferred 1.7-1.8 ohm, but these vape very nicely if you keep 'em wet and the button presses short.

 

[DC2]

Maybe I am insane.

I just spent the weekend in Vegas.
I only brought my KR808D-1 batteries and some cartomizers.

The experience was lacking.

So I came home and put the same cartomizers on my 510 battery with adapter.
The vapor flowed, and it no longer sucked.

What gives?

 

[Scottbee]

Maybe I am insane.

I just spent the weekend in Vegas.
I only brought my KR808D-1 batteries and some cartomizers.

The experience was lacking.

So I came home and put the same cartomizers on my 510 battery with adapter.
The vapor flowed, and it no longer sucked.

What gives?

Options:

1) You're insane....

2) There is another major factor that you have to take into consideration.. and that's airflow. It is a major component in the equation that defines how hot an atomizer or cartomizer (coil) will run.... and therefore how it will produce vapor.

The eGo/Tornado exploits this with the cone. Some high resistance cartomizers also exploit this by changing the size of the incoming air orifices.

So what you may be experiencing is a (major?) difference in apparent performance based on how much incoming air is being introduced to the cartomizer. Your KR808D-1 batteries may have different airflow characteristics than your adapters (I know that mine do). And to make it even harder to put your finger on.... airflow changes from KR battery to KR battery (2-hole, 3-hole, big-hole, small-hole).. and adapter to adapter.

 

[lotus14]

Options:

1) You're insane....

2) There is another major factor that you have to take into consideration.. and that's airflow. It is a major component in the equation that defines how hot an atomizer or cartomizer (coil) will run.... and therefore how it will produce vapor.

The eGo/Tornado exploits this with the cone. Some high resistance cartomizers also exploit this by changing the size of the incoming air orifices.

So what you may be experiencing is a (major?) difference in apparent performance based on how much incoming air is being introduced to the cartomizer. Your KR808D-1 batteries may have different airflow characteristics than your adapters (I know that mine do). And to make it even harder to put your finger on.... airflow changes from KR battery to KR battery (2-hole, 3-hole, big-hole, small-hole).. and adapter to adapter.

1) I'd have to be insane also. What are the odds?

2) Airflow! I've had a love hate relationship with the KR8s for some time. It's the airflow. For me at least, less is much better, even at 5v where I prefer them.

Definitely requires some experimentation to find what works best for you, but well worth it.

 

[dmarnaud2]

Hiya Scott,

Thanks for the time and effort you have put into this. I was wondering if you could tell me or point me to a thread that explains how to dis-assemble 510 batteries without destroying them.

Thanks,

 

[Scottbee]

Hiya Scott,

Thanks for the time and effort you have put into this. I was wondering if you could tell me or point me to a thread that explains how to dis-assemble 510 batteries without destroying them.

Thanks,

To be honest with you.. I don't know of such a thread or a post.

I had the toughest time getting them apart without destroying them.. or having to cut the outer tube. Finally I just made a mandrel that I could thread into the atty connector. I put the mandrel in, heat the outer tube in that area to "soften" the glue (which appears actually to be an anaerobic adhesive), and "wiggle" the mandrel until the atty connector comes out.

It takes time and patience.... but I can usually "get `r done".

 

[Nietzsc]

Hi scottbee, could you help me with a wiring scheme for a tester like yours, I'm thinking that is just about connecting positives with positives and negatives with negatives all allong but I'm not sure.

 

[Ragamuffin]

Wow. As a newbie to e-cigs and this forum, I am so grateful for this thread and all this info. It is really helping me learn. I am desperately and hopefully searching for the right things to purchase to get what I feel I need to stay away from analogs. I've been the Chantix route, dangerously, three times, and will never try it again. It nearly did me in this last time around. That said....

What I need/want is this: plenty of throat hit, and plenty of vapor. I'll worry about tapering down nicotine, etc later on.

I've tried a No.7 SS disposable, which was useless.
Also have a Q.510 disposable with USB "charger". It's not much better, but will keep for emergencies.

I have purchased from the Vapor4life website:

Mini-Shorty PCC kit, that has a manual battery, two cartomizers, and the PCC with the USB end. Inside, it reads:

Portable Charger
MODEL: 808E-Pack
INPUT: 4.5-6VDC
OUTPUT: DC 4.2V 200mA
Made in China

Came with several different cartomizers as a bonus, and a box of Virginia Menthol 36mg cartomizers, not sure if they are Premium or not. Also a Spirit America Menthol cart that I loved.

Ok. Also purchased a Joye 510 kit from e-smokeronline.com:

Included two manual batteries, two atomizers, wall charger, two boxes of Menthol "High" nicotine flat-tip cartridges, one box of empty round-tip cartridges, 24mg nicotine NP juice,

I also ordered, not yet arrived: an adapter to use these two units together, thinking of putting the VaporKing Cartomizers on the 510 battery, both being female ends, and I did not order an adapter to use the V4L battery with the 510 atomizer. At first, I was thinking I liked the look of the black 510 manual battery better, so that's why.

So, now after a few days of trying each of these sets, I reach for my V4L Shorty with the menthol cartomizers more than the 510 kit. It seems to have more vapor, more throat hit, than the 510. I do like the look of the 510 more, being slimmer.

After reading this thread, I am no longer sure exactly what battery is in this V4L kit. So I would like to ask if someone with more experience could tell me if it is the same as a "KR808D-1" battery discussed here, or not. If it is, I will try to find an adapter to use the V4L battery with the 510 atomizer and see how I like that as well. The one in the kit has a hole in the center, so I know it is "unprotected".

My goal: more vapor, more throat hit, recharging is not a big issue for me. I would like to be able to use prefilled and refilled cartomizers on the "KR808D-1" battery everyone seems to prefer, being the true "3.7V" discussed here, but don't know if they will perform like the 510 two part atomizer/cartridge. Do they even make a 510 prefilled cartomizer?

So do I need to get another battery, or do I already actually own it from this kit? And therefore just need an adapter to use my 510 atomizer/cartridges?

Sorry for the long post, not sure if I'm coming across clearly is my weakness. Other than nicotine .

My Joye 510 just doesn't seem to be strong enough overall so I keep going back to my V4L shorty, but it too soon loses it's strength to me. Only the first few puffs are great, and the draw is too hard to me. I have to suck on it for too long in my opinion to get a good, solid hit. Granted, some of the cartomizers could just be not great flavors or what have you. I would like the option of refilling them, and only having the one part to deal with, but everyone seems to like the 510 atomizer/cartridge set up more. So I'm willing to do that for more throat hit and vapor.

I apologize if this is just too confusing the way I have worded it. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Ragmuffin

 

[WillyB]

Yeah, and a WITCH who likes Dexter and his bloody knives 8-o

Excellent info Scottbee - thanks for all the research

For those who aren't aware, several vendors are now selling 5v 510 passthrough, without the battery box, for around $15. I liked mine so much I bought 2 spares...

You realize that for these to actually be 5V devices, with a Joye atty, would require almost 2.4A of current. I don't don't think my computers USB ports can supply that, nor would I want it to if it could.

 

[dmarnaud2]

You realize that for these to actually be 5V devices, with a Joye atty, would require almost 2.4A of current. I don't don't think my computers USB ports can supply that, nor would I want it to if it could.

I was reading up about USB and I think the most current it will supply is 500ma (0.5a) and only if it is a USB compliant device which negotiates the additional curent. If the device is a simple electrical connection direct to the USB port, then the device will only recieve 100ma (0.1a).

I just bought a 4xAA battery holder to make a mod/passthrough. I figure with 4x2400ma NiMhi batteries I will be getting 4.8volts at 2.4amps so I hope to be in the money. Just have to figure out how to get that old battery apart without destroying it.

 

[Rocketman]

Scott;
Kudos to your patients, or is it patience, or is it both

Rocket

 

[dhowardpeters]

To be honest with you.. I don't know of such a thread or a post.

I had the toughest time getting them apart without destroying them.. or having to cut the outer tube. Finally I just made a mandrel that I could thread into the atty connector. I put the mandrel in, heat the outer tube in that area to "soften" the glue (which appears actually to be an anaerobic adhesive), and "wiggle" the mandrel until the atty connector comes out.

It takes time and patience.... but I can usually "get `r done".

I got a kr8 mega batt because of this thread. It's all good. Wondering if you ever did the follow-ups to see if the 3.7v output held with other kr8 batts?

 

[Scottbee]

I got a kr8 mega batt because of this thread. It's all good. Wondering if you ever did the follow-ups to see if the 3.7v output held with other kr8 batts?

I have a small sampling of KR808D-1 style batteries.. all of which came from V4L. One is manual and the rest are automatics. All of them give a "true" 3.7VDC output according to my tester. No modulation or reduction.

 

[Scottbee]

I was reading up about USB and I think the most current it will supply is 500ma (0.5a) and only if it is a USB compliant device which negotiates the additional curent. If the device is a simple electrical connection direct to the USB port, then the device will only recieve 100ma (0.1a).

I agree.. that's the way that it is "supposed" to work based on what I know. Deliver 100mA.. negotiate.. then allow the output to go up to 500mA.

That being said.... none of my USB 2.0 ports (tower, server, tablet, notebook) actually work that way. They all "appear" to just use a polyfuse running to the regulated 5V rail, along with some current sensing circuitry. At least it looks that way from 10,000'. All of them put out over 500mA without negotiation. But none of them put out over 1A without shutting down. I can't really run a battery-less PT from any of them, but they're great for charging the Bartleby (although the table/slate complains about a "power surge")

 

[Scottbee]

Hi scottbee, could you help me with a wiring scheme for a tester like yours, I'm thinking that is just about connecting positives with positives and negatives with negatives all allong but I'm not sure.

Sorry for the delay in responding to this post.

There is no magic at all with the tester. All I did was put a fixed resistance (resistor) across the atty connector. I added the Radio Shack "speaker connector" just for convenience.

Just make sure that your resistor(s) are sized large enough to handle the delivered power and that the net resistance is about 2.5Ω or so. Two 5W 5Ω resistors in parallel would be fine. Two 10W 5Ω resistors in parallel would be even better (just a bit better thermal stability). My local RS was out of 5Ω resistors... so I ended up putting 4 10Ω resistors in parallel. Gross overkill from a power handling perspective.