Battery Voltages -- Surprise!

[jimho]

Thank you guys, here are the pictures of my switch. I think that the barrel bolt is made from aluminum but my problem is how can I be sure that it's not effective or efficient? I measured continuity from the switch to the atty conector and it reads the same as touching both probes of my meter.

After clenaning the switch it performed a lot better but somehow the idea of the switch not performing well is stucked in my mind and I WANT TO KNOW!!!

It is simple, when pushed, the screw touches the battery completing the circuit and by turning the bolt it can be locked.

Two ways-
1- use it
2- bench test the device output and if the voltage isn't what you expect, you have to troubleshoot it -
Assuming you can solder without making too much of a mess, simplest way is to take a connector off a dead atty and solder 6-12 inches of 20 Ga wire
1) on to the centerpost - you'll want to pull it out to solder and reinsert it afterwards - so you need to solder very close to the end of the centerpost or inside the middle of the centerpost....
2) and the outer part of the connector.

The key is you want to make sure you don't create a short.... I did mine with 18 ga but 20 would have been a bit easier.... 22 or 24 would work but with a foot of wire, the 24 ga getting close to measurable .... here's a nice calculator that gives you the voltage drop- http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
Once done you can run your test leads to a breadboard you can load it up however you like - make sure you use resistors rated for at least 5W - I use 4 10 ohm/10W resistors in parallel for 2.5 Ohms...
now you can measure the voltage loaded at the atty with any mod you want/while it's active - makes it easy and relatively safe to compare and test devices while loaded - just be careful and always check for shorts.

 

[Nietzsc]

Ok, I'll try to put sth together next week to test loaded voltage. As far as aluminum conductivity, since the whole mod + the switch is made from this material, I found this video:

YouTube - Stainless Vs Aluminum Loaded Test

 

[jimho]

Ok, I'll try to put sth together next week to test loaded voltage. As far as aluminum conductivity, since the whole mod + the switch is made from this material, I found this video:

YouTube - Stainless Vs Aluminum Loaded Test

Aluminum conductivity varies widely based on the alloys used with it- you rarely have pure aluminum, however it is genereally regarded as much more conductive than stainless. Assuming the contact area is adequate, in real world it's not an issue but don't assume all aluminum is equal - in other words YMMV.

 

[Nietzsc]

Right, I won't be comfortable until I can test loaded voltage on the device, aarrrghhh!!! Thanks jimho

 

[WillyB]

Aluminum conductivity varies widely based on the alloys used with it- you rarely have pure aluminum, however it is genereally regarded as much more conductive than stainless. Assuming the contact area is adequate, in real world it's not an issue but don't assume all aluminum is equal - in other words YMMV.

Well beer can aluminum alloy seems the most prevalent (6061).

Rocketman did some some resistance tests on his cheapy aluminum flashlight mods (they usually use his converted clicky to momentary switches). The resistance was insignificant and needed his expensive 5 1/2 digit meter to even detect.

Here's his meter and one of his mods showing loaded volts with an 18650 (probably an UltraFire 3000mAh) and a 3.2Ω carto (I hope).

 

[jimho]

Well beer can aluminum alloy seems the most prevalent (6061).

Rocketman did some some resistance tests on his cheapy aluminum flashlight mods (they usually use his converted clicky to momentary switches). The resistance was insignificant and needed his expensive 5 1/2 digit meter to even detect.

Here's his meter and one of his mods showing loaded volts with an 18650 (probably an UltraFire 3000mAh) and a 3.2Ω carto (I hope).

Of course- the contact area is significant and the amount of contuctor material is large enough to not make a difference.. it's a good point that we make too big a deal out of the material - I just put the bit about aluminum up there because it could make a difference in wire depending on the length and gage. it might be more of an issue in a couple of yards of 28 ga wire but even still, we're talking about resistances barely within the measuring capability of most of our lesser multimeters. FWIW, lots of folks making a big stink when they measure .2 ohms off on their ohm meter not realizing they are lucky if the accuracy of their meter is spec'd at .2 ohms. At the same time few pay attention to the 8-12 inches of wire in alot of box mods or their choice of attys that could have an impact on the voltage at the coil...
I think Notzsc will find a clean connection to be more important than anything else- having a dirty connector is like pinching a hose.

 

[LowThudd]

I guess Al is not the issue. But I suspect the homemade "bolt" switch is not making enough contact to carry the current required. There must be a couple pieces involved for it to function as described, so several possibilities for loose connection. The more connection points that arrent soldered, the more resistence.

 

[bshalaby]

I want to add a quick note since some people might not appreciate or understand the importance of even a small increase in delivered voltage. They may think... "Eh... 3.1V vs. 3.7V, that's not that big of a deal..".

Power (in other words, the heat generated) is not a linear relationship with voltage. In other words, if you increase the voltage by 15%, the heat doesn't also go up by 15%. It goes up by the "square" of voltage.

Example based on an average 510 atty (2.5 Ohms):

3.1V of delivered voltage will yield about 3.8 Watts of atomizer "heat".
3.7V of delivered voltage will yield about 5.5 Watts of atomizer "heat".

So that little .6V increase generated about 40% more power (heat)....

Here is another formula that might help I (Current, the number you are really interested in)= Voltage/Resistance. You can either increase Voltage or decrease resistance to get more current. More current passing through means more heat but it also means more drainage on the battery. Remember that batteries are measured in amperes or mah (milli amperes hour).

The manufacturers play around with resistance to balance battery draw. When one of them claims a very high puff rate for their equivalent milli amp battery you are almost guaranteed higher resistance coils. Or less current, less heat and less vapor.

 

[LowThudd]

Here is another formula that might help I (Current, the number you are really interested in)= Voltage/Resistance. You can either increase Voltage or decrease resistance to get more current. More current passing through means more heat but it also means more drainage on the battery. Remember that batteries are measured in amperes or mah (milli amperes hour).

The manufacturers play around with resistance to balance battery draw. When one of them claims a very high puff rate for their equivalent milli amp battery you are almost guaranteed higher resistance coils. Or less current, less heat and less vapor.

Current = Watts. Same thing. Watts is more precise as there are other measurements of current.

 

[Kelemvor]

in which country is watts the same as current?

 

[LowThudd]

in which country is watts the same as current?

Your right, I was a little off.

Electrical power is measured in watts. In an electrical system power (P) is equal to the voltage multiplied by the current.

P = VI

HowStuffWorks "What are amps, watts, volts and ohms?"

Watts is still a better measure of "Power" for our purposes than current since it lacks voltage in the equasion.

 

[Nietzsc]

So I took a couple of connectors and join them together with a couple of wires so I could connect the meter probes to it and measure loaded voltage. I made a comparison between my cisco laser, 801 batt and the flashlight.

The best is the cisco laser, then the 801 and the worst is the flashlight. I guess that it has to do with too many loose connections in the switch like LowThudd said (the threads of the screw that goes in the bolt, the bolt touching the walls of the cap of the flashlight, etc) or maybe the switch and the cap are thick enough to add resistance.

As a matter of fact before modding that flashlight I remember that the cap was isolated by the black painting and the power ran through a little metal piece that made contact between the battery and the body of the flashlight so the current didn't go to the cap.

It is a shame cause I really liked how I put together that switch, it was my pride and joy... I'm still going to re-think the whole thing and see if I can come up with a solution. Thanks everybody.

 

[LowThudd]

Seems like all you need is a better switch. A tactile switch from Madvapes.com would work. Or Switches - Pushbutton | AllElectronics.com lot's of options there. That store is local to me, and I love walking through every once in a while, pick up a few things.

 

[Scottbee]

Here is another formula that might help I (Current, the number you are really interested in)= Voltage/Resistance. You can either increase Voltage or decrease resistance to get more current. More current passing through means more heat but it also means more drainage on the battery. Remember that batteries are measured in amperes or mah (milli amperes hour).

The manufacturers play around with resistance to balance battery draw. When one of them claims a very high puff rate for their equivalent milli amp battery you are almost guaranteed higher resistance coils. Or less current, less heat and less vapor.

Ummm.. thank you.. but I'm pretty familiar with Ohms Law.

But you're incorrect. "Current" is NOT what I'm really interested in. Current does not directly correlate to "heat". Power, or Watts does. I can flow a substantial amount of current and still not generate any heat.

And manufacturers generally don't play with resistance to balance battery draw. The play with the resistance to vary the heat generated by the atomizer or cartomizer.. since heat correlates to power, and power = E**2/R.

 

[jimho]

So I took a couple of connectors and join them together with a couple of wires so I could connect the meter probes to it and measure loaded voltage. I made a comparison between my cisco laser, 801 batt and the flashlight.

The best is the cisco laser, then the 801 and the worst is the flashlight. I guess that it has to do with too many loose connections in the switch like LowThudd said (the threads of the screw that goes in the bolt, the bolt touching the walls of the cap of the flashlight, etc) or maybe the switch and the cap are thick enough to add resistance.

As a matter of fact before modding that flashlight I remember that the cap was isolated by the black painting and the power ran through a little metal piece that made contact between the battery and the body of the flashlight so the current didn't go to the cap.

It is a shame cause I really liked how I put together that switch, it was my pride and joy... I'm still going to re-think the whole thing and see if I can come up with a solution. Thanks everybody.

Can you do some troubleshooting now? If you connect the meter to measure the voltage between the screw and the outer part of the atty connector that would be a good start. I would expect it to account for your voltage difference. Then find a bare metal spot on your tube body and check between the atty and the body and then between the body and the bottom bolt. You need to determine if the problem is in the connection between the battery and the tube or between the tube and the atty (or both)....

I suspected you would find a problem with the anodized aluminum somewhere but wanted to wait till you had a test rig and could see results.. You have to remove the anodized finish wherever there is contact - it is an electrical insulator.

 

[MahBohMan]

Good review, but from an electricians standpoint....don't ever take pictures of your meter when you have your leads hooked up backwards. I know its an accurate reading(fluke) but next time hook your leads so we're not looking at the -

 

[MichelleDen]

I know this test was done a year ago, but had a friend test all mine and...... drumrole please: all 510 were 3,6 or 3,7 volt.... Kr8: 4,2 volt. Mind you I have not read all 34 pages of this thread, so don't know if anyone else got same result...

 

[Scottbee]

I know this test was done a year ago, but had a friend test all mine and...... drumrole please: all 510 were 3,6 or 3,7 volt.... Kr8: 4,2 volt. Mind you I have not read all 34 pages of this thread, so don't know if anyone else got same result...

Once again, these tests were done with the battery under a "load". I can assure you that your friend did not put a load on those batteries if he got those results.

 

[MichelleDen]

under a load.. what does that mean?

 

[WillyB]

Read post #1.