Be Afraid...Be Very Very Afraid

[leannebug]

Although I'm a noob, I found that I too want to "vape all day". After a couple of jittery days, I realized I needed to buy some zero nic in my favorite flavors. So, when I'm in the 'pacifier' mood, I put in zero nic and vape to my hearts content!
Problem solved. (I also use the zero nic at night before bed)

 

[MikeDeason]

Additionally we already know some of the effects of using nicotine over a long period of time.

Parkinson's Disease: Nicotine Reduces Levodopa-induced Dyskinesias

I'm not just talking about the nic over MANY years but also the efects of the other stuff that goes into making the juice/vapor...I know it's FDA approved but over MANY years and hundreds of thousands of vapes we are consuming ALOT of juice.

Don't get me wrong.

I'll keep vaping because it's def. safer than smoking. PLUS I love it!

But I still think it will make alot of people more hooked on nic and the juice additives MIGHT cause health problems if used extensively over MANY years.

 

[GregH]

I'm not just talking about the nic over MANY years but also the efects of the other stuff that goes into making the juice/vapor...I know it's FDA approved but over MANY years and hundreds of thousands of vapes we are consuming ALOT of juice.

Don't get me wrong.

I'll keep vaping because it's def. safer than smoking. PLUS I love it!

But I still think it will make alot of people more hooked on nic and the juice additives MIGHT cause health problems if used extensively over MANY years.

But that's true of a lot of things. Some examples are sugar, alcohol, and OTC meds. Extensive use of any of these things, and that includes the liquids we vape, is not really part of a completely healthy lifestyle. To really achieve that, I think we'd have to pretty much go all natural with everything we consume.

It's all about choices and relatives, not absolutes.

Do I consider vaping healthy? No. But neither is Pepsi or coffee.

Do I consider vaping healthier than smoking, which is what I would be doing instead? Absolutely.

 

[rhoobarb]

i vape a lot more than i smoked what ive don to balance it out is lower nicotine so can vape more

 

[Kent C]

In my case it was impossible to vape more than I smoked since i smoked 2.5 to 3 packs a day. I also believe it's way less addictive than smoking since you don't get all the additives and things that increase the effects of nicotine and if i go a few hours without vaping i don't feel withdrawl symptoms like i did when i didn't smoke for a short amount of time.

Additionally we already know some of the effects of using nicotine over a long period of time.

Parkinson's Disease: Nicotine Reduces Levodopa-induced Dyskinesias


"Studies conducted over the last 40 years show that the incidence of Parkinson's disease is about 50 percent less in smokers than in the general population. Recent studies in experimental models suggest that the nicotine in smoke may be responsible for this neuroprotective effect."


not too shabby eh?

Thanks for posting this. There are similar studies on Alzheimer's, dementia and rheumatoid arthritis. Don't have them at hand though - but I know the RA studies were done in Zurich as recent as last year. By some anecdotal observations, I think they should study whether Alzheimer's is 'brought on' by quitting nicotine. I know of two cases that were diagnosed a year after the people quit smoking, and it seems like there's been a higher incidence of Alheimer's since the smoking bans and anti-smoking lobby has been in existence.

 

[River]

I'm not just talking about the nic over MANY years but also the efects of the other stuff that goes into making the juice/vapor...I know it's FDA approved but over MANY years and hundreds of thousands of vapes we are consuming ALOT of juice.

Don't get me wrong.

I'll keep vaping because it's def. safer than smoking. PLUS I love it!

But I still think it will make alot of people more hooked on nic and the juice additives MIGHT cause health problems if used extensively over MANY years.

ok well in that case I have a dif link for ya...

Air Sanitizers | Pesticides | US EPA


"There is considerable evidence that glycol vapors produce significant decreases i/n numbers of viable airborne bacteria under relatively wide conditions of relative humidity and temperature when properly and continuously dispensed by a vaporizing device so as to maintain suitable concentrations in the air of enclosed spaces."

http://www.dow.com/propyleneglycol/prod/pguspep.htm

PG USP/EP from Dow is an important ingredient for a multitude of uses, including:

•Solvent for aromatics in the flavor-concentrate industry
•Wetting agent for natural gums
•Ingredient in the compounding of citrus and other emulsified flavors
•Solvent in elixirs and pharmaceutical preparations
•Solvent and coupling agent in the formulation of sun screen, lotion, shampoos, shaving creams and other similar products
•Emulsifier in cosmetic and pharmaceutical creams
•Ingredient for low-temperature heat-transfer fluids involving indirect food contact, such as brewing and dairy uses, as well as refrigerated grocery display cases
•Very effective humectant, preservative and stabilizer in semi-moist pet food (with the exception of cat food), bakery goods, food flavorings and salad dressings


PG is in everything and has been for decades, vapers are consuming 3-4 ml a day and everyone else in the western world is consuming 1 or 2 ml a day.


BTW just for the comedic effect when does the FDA consider PG harmless? when it's in hundreds of other products that are not related to vaping, LOL! Here's a little link that expounds on how safe the FDA considers PG from before the era of vaping.

http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/suppliers/a/propglycol.htm

Now idk what product you are using but the one I am kills airborne bacteria, reduces the chance of getting parkenson's disease by 50% protects you fom alzheimers and tastes delicious.

If you just enjoy being frightened about something pick something that presents a real danger like a car accident or a slip and fall in the tub.

 

[AmyB66]

I too vape way more than I smoke. Been going at this for about a month now. When I first started I was having some horrible analog withdrawels. I mean bad, forgetfulness, sluggishness, and yes, even constipation (embarrassing to admit but hell, it's the truth)

Upon some advice I hit the snus. Just at work. It helped. Now I don't really need it and I am still hitting two analogs in the morning but as of the last couple days they aren't as Good as they were when I first cut back. In fact, they kinda taste bad period. It's a habit, I hit the coffee pot and the smoke within fifteen minutes of being up in the morning.

I set myself a reasonable goal. To be completely done with analogs by the time my kid is done with the school year.

Several things I've noticed. No more cough. Very little gunk. My skin is actually brightening up. Digestive system is back on track. Focus is slowly being restored and last, it doesn't seem to matter too much if I am hitting juice at 24mg or 12mg. I have a few high voltage mods on order and think that once I get into those I'll really be able to cut back on the nic. I also do not "need'' the snus anymore to totally focus, only using one or two during a crazy work day and it is camel brand, so pretty low on the nic scale.

And finally, yes, I too am eating less. Might not be an issue for some but I think alot of women started smoking years back to help them loose weight or stay thin. I started at 16, and that was one reason and a very huge reason why I never quit.

Over the last several years I had developed some horrid anxiety/panic attacks. I have a mild med I take as needed and due to this at my last physical when the doc asked if I wanted to quit, we discussed chantix but due to the massive stresses I must still deal with on a daily basis, many beyond my control and the panic attacks, the doctor thought taking chantix would be a horrid idea.
Which leads me to one other thing. I still can relax/vape and get a similar reaction as far as relaxing etc smoking gave me yet my anxiety seems to have decreased some, especially at night. So while not having a cig would get me all wound up, having them in the evening didn't help my heart rate and anxiety levels at all. Vaping has allowed me to calm my figity self and not be the double edge sword that smoking was when it comes to the anxiety/panic crap.

I figure it is all a long slow process if one wants to successfully restore their health. I've been taking it slow. I graze less, my sugar cravings have reduced, I am almost smoke free. I have taken it slow but the slower steps for me are insuring that I am successful.
Maybe next year I won't need the crutch, maybe someday I'll kill the habit but for now, yep, I am vaping my why to health.

 

[MikeDeason]

Yea I feel better as well....just more of a Nicotine addict now.

Good trade off IMO.

 

[Tuesday]

Since my very first e-cig experience I never had another analog (over 5 months ago) but I do notice I vape alot, way more than I ever smoked.
I am no longer interested in analogs but the amount of vaping during my free time is considerable. I am using 10mg or 12 mg and occasionally use some 24mg I still have left in the refrigerator, Wow I can really tell when I am using the 24mg it now seems very strong. I still enjoy the 24mg for short periods of time, then I put it away.

 

[leannebug]

Yea I feel better as well....just more of a Nicotine addict now.

well, what in the world were you before?

 

[MikeDeason]

A pack a day smoker.....outside every couple hrs..

But I've been vaping constantly at my computer for the past 6 hrs!

Plus vaped most of the day in the car.

Love it!

 

[CaptJay]

Get some no nic and vape away without worrying about nic
Just use the nic-juice when abso-positive-alutely need something to calm your nerves. Best of both worlds.
I've started doing this and Im pretty sure I'm ahead of the game now - also been cutting my 12mg (which idont pacify vape any more) with zero nic to make it even lower and still feelin good. You will get to this point (maybe...lol..and then only if its what you want) and then wonder why you were concerned
I never saw myself as a non smoker, and when I was a non smoker I neevr saw myself as a non nic user - I guess being wrong has its advantages sometimes ;-D

 

[redrhino]

Yeah..... I have to agree with a lot of posters here, i tend to vape a lot more than i ever smoked....When i was on analogs, i actually thought i smoked a lot, 2 packs a day was the norm for me..... Sometimes on a bad day defiantly 2 1/2 packs....But now that I'm vaping i have been told by a lot of friends and family members that the PV never actually leaves my mouth...So the other day i wanted to see if that was true....So i started to pay closer attention to my Vaping habit....And wow.... I realized that the only time i actually put my PV down is when i got to change the Batts......Sad but True....Another thing i relized, that i go trough a lot of juice.... Just an estimate here, but about 9-13ml of juice a day at 18mg strength .....And yes, i do Drip in a HV Mod PV so that may have something to do with it.....But wow nevertheless i still Vape a lot more than when i use to smoke though......

 

[kristin]

I'm not just talking about the nic over MANY years but also the efects of the other stuff that goes into making the juice/vapor...I know it's FDA approved but over MANY years and hundreds of thousands of vapes we are consuming ALOT of juice.

Don't get me wrong.

I'll keep vaping because it's def. safer than smoking. PLUS I love it!

But I still think it will make alot of people more hooked on nic and the juice additives MIGHT cause health problems if used extensively over MANY years.

VAPING DOES NOT MAKE YOU MORE OF A NICOTINE ADDICT!!

Please look at the studies.

Propylene glycol and vapor is shown not to be as effective in nicotine delivery as tobacco smoke - especially the freebase nicotine they put in tobacco cigarettes.

Because you can't absorb as much nicotine by vaping, as you could by smoking, you tend to increase the frequency. New vapers also vape more, because of the novelty and trying new flavors and being able to vape indoors.

But most people will typically vape until the craving subsides.

On the contrary, just about every smoker would suck in that toxic smoke - even after the nicotine craving was over - by smoking a whole cigarette, just to not "waste" it!

Look at it this way - instead of sucking in 20mg of nicotine a day divided into 20-15 minute spurts (the average US cig contains 10mg of nicotine, but only absorbs 1mg x 20 cigs in a pack), you vape all day long and take in even less nicotine than with the cigarettes, because you can't absorb as much and you only vape when you feel the need for a puff.

Do you really think you're absorbing more than 20mg a day by vaping? If you were, you'd feel pretty darn ill or be bouncing off the walls!

I go through a 30ml bottle of 12mg in about a month. That means I'm vaping 1ml a day and 12mg total - absorbing even less. If you're using about 1ml of 36mg a day, you're probably absorbing about 18-20mg at most. About the same as a pack of cigarettes.

It all evens out.

 

[aubergine]

We don't know if vaping more continuously than when we smoked actually means that we're absorbing more nicotine. No studies --> a lot of speculation.

My (unsubstantiated) guess is that we're not, for the simple reason that nicotine overdose (ie, exceeding your individual tolerance level) isn't exactly a subtle phenomena. Addiction to nicotine is not similar to addiction to drugs like opiates - smokers don't have to keep upping their nicotine intake to get the same effect. The level of nicotine required for satiety is pretty stable - more like coffee. If I find a brand of coffee that I love, and try to drink 10 cups a day, I'll get sick. If I vape 36's continuously, I'll feel sick - that exceeds my tolerance level, and doing it every day is not gonna increase it.

Ergo, a decent hypothesis would be that we're getting about the same amount of nicotine, even when we're vaping like fiends, because of a difference in actual absorption.

When I was on the patch and lit up forgetfully, I knew it. Ugh. It's a self-regulating substance.

 

[kristin]

Good theory!

Actually, two studies addressed nicotine delivery - by Dr. Laugesen at Health New Zealand and Dr. Eissenberg at Virginia Commonwealth.

While the amounts differ significantly, they both concluded that vaping was less efficient at nicotine absorption, ie. you get less nicvotine vaping than you did smoking.

Dr. Laugesen determined vaping was something like 10% as effective as smoking for nicotine delivery.

 

[telsie]

I was a 2-pack/day smoker of Marlboro Ultra Lights, which have .5mg of nicotine (which I assume is the estimated absorption amount). So I was getting about 20mg of nicotine a day as a smoker.

When I first switched to my e-cig, I tried low strength liquid for a couple days, but it didn't cut it for me and I had to go higher for several weeks (up to 18mg & 24mg). I vaped more medium than high and I used at least 2ml/day. So I can calculate that as at least 36mg/day. If I add a bit to account for some high strength usage, I was conservatively vaping 40mg of nicotine a day.

Well there's just no freaking way I was absorbing anywhere near that much. It would've been double what my body was used to. There would've been some physical repercussions from that. But instead, I still went through withdrawal. So based on my own experience, the absorption rate has to be less than 50%, probably significantly less. The current estimates of 10-40% seem pretty likely to me.

 

[Raven_Blackblade]

Depending on how long you have been vaping actually depends on how much you are vaping. At first it is guilt free, You are not taking in all those chemicals, it tastes better, and it is safer....

But trust me, after a while you are able to put it down for a bit because the novelty has worn off....

 

[satoshi]

According to Laugesen, talking about vaping 16 mg liquid:

"Six puffs every 5 minutes would deliver the same dose of nicotine delivered by shallow inhaling from one tobacco cigarette every hour"

E-cig News: Dr. Laugesen's report on the Ruyan e-cigarette as shown to the Society for Research on Nicotine & Tobacco conference in Dublin April, 2009

 

[leannebug]

I find that when I continually vape, it's to get more flavor... ie; because I'm craving English Toffee, or Peach, or what-have-you.
Also, since I haven't quite given up the analogs, I have been comparing the actual usage of both.

when I 'smoke', I chain smoke... because I sit outside... smoke, smoke, smoke.. then go back indoors.

When I 'vape', I can't "chain vape" because the atty will get too hot. So I vape a little, then I have to let the ecig cool off before I can vape again.

Even if I compare one to one (one cigarette vs #of puffs in an ecig); I take much more drags off of one cigarette in a short period of time. I can not possibly take as many puffs off of my ecig in the same amount of time. So it takes a longer amount of time to inhale the same amount on the ecig, vs smoking a cigarette.

But that's just me. Other people smoke differenly. You would have to compare your usages, to see if you are actually "vaping" more than you smoked.