Beginners Kit

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SnakeFarm

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Sep 1, 2011
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Just wondering if there is a post about what a beginner needs to get started in DIY. I'm a programmer, so I always do a customer assesment, requirements and hardware analysis before I start anything. :)


Customer: Me. vaping for about two years now. Smoked cigarettes, expensive pipes, cheap cigars, dipped snuff and chewed tobacco; alpha addict. Vape ~7mg of 30mg 50%PG/50%VG per day using carto tank and clearo tanks. I favor the cleros. Batt mods: two Vamos, Early Provari, and a Vision Spinner. Not motivated by flavor but favors tobacco and "gingerbread" from a specific vendor. Frugal. WILL NOT pay over 33 cents per ml. Little or no useful chemistry knowledge, but accomplished BBQ artist and adept at following procedures.

Requirements: Customer requires a simple and repeatable method for producing his own flavored nicotine juice at a rate of less than 33 cents per ml. Plans to develop a good or acceptable recipe and then produce large (1gal) batches for personal consumption.

Hardware:
Pipette
Syringe
Mixing Flask with pouring lip
stirrer
30 ml storage bottles
Latex Gloves
Goggles

Supplies:
Liquid Nicotine - NO idea where to get this
Flavoring compounds (tobacco? Gingerbread?)
Propoline Glycol - Local drugstore has it cheap
Vegetable Glycrerin - Local drugstore has it, not cheap


Questions:
Is there an economical source of quality supplies including Nicotine?
Is there a good "Get Started" DIYers website for supplies?
Does Nicotine liquid have a shelf-life? Can it be extended by freezing/cooling?
Are there any special licenses needed to purchase Nicotine for personal use?

Any advice appreciated. :)
 

Wow1420

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Nice list you have there.

Wizard Labs for flavorings, Nic and supplies.
Another is RTS Vapes, I prefer Wizard, but RTS carries some stuff that Wizard doesn't and they claim their Nic is 100% US made.
Essential Depot for VG and PG

Nicotine should last a year in coolish, dark room temperatures and probably for many years if frozen. PG and VG from ED have "use by" dates two years out. Flavorings should be good for a year, freezing not recommended for flavorings.

ETA: you should come in well under 33 cents/ml even counting one-time start-up supplies.
 

Cavediver

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I just notice the "large (1gal) " in the OPs post. That's huge! At 5ml a day, I would go through about 2 quarts in a year. (And I actually vape 3 to 5ml a day).

Get good at making small batches, 5 or 10ml. Then scale up as you really need.

It sure seems that way, but it's nice to have extra on hand, especially if you get into making your own extractions. I bought a gallon of PG right away and am surprised at how much I've already used.
 

Cavediver

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To the OP, I'm a beginning DIYer and did a lot of reading and research before starting. I thought I'd want flasks and labware for mixing along with the pipettes for measuring and dispensing. Two or three weeks in and thus far I have only needed a few syringes with different gauge needles, mixing directly in the bottles.

ETA: I'm using lots of small bottles for flavor testing right now. I think I've got almost 30 5ml bottles with 5% single flavor solutions sitting around steeping. I bought a bag of 50 5ml and 50 10ml bottles from ebay, thinking there was no way I'd use them all. Lol.
 
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Abe_Katz

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Hardware:
Pipette

Useful, If you purchase from Wizard Labs for flavorings, menthol and other assorted software and hardware you should get a 3ml and 1ml pipette. Personally I don't like to use 1 ml pipettes except for filling my T3. Even if you buy one Wizard Labs has them for like 15 cents each.


I would suggest having at least one each of 1 ml, 3 ml, 5 ml. Assuming you're making small batches like I do. If you're making batches over 30ml at a time I would suggest also getting a 10 ml syringe. You will need at least one of a 14 gage needle (blunt tip) and one 16 gage needle (blunt tip).

Mixing Flask with pouring lip

If you use the syrenge method to directly put the pg, vg, nicotine and flavorings into your storage bottle a mixing flask, beaker, or other type of container is not not necessary. However, I do have several cups used for liquid medicines that my wife had laying about.


Using the syringe to bottle method a stirrer is not necessary. Since I put everything into a storage bottle immediately I put my ingredients in, seal the bottle and shake it vigorously.

30 ml storage bottles

Personally I saved bottles from ready made juice (but I have a tendency to be a pack rat anyway). Most vendors carry storage bottles for e-liquid and plastic ones work fairly well.

Latex Gloves

Local pharmacies.


I have found that goggles are not expressly necessary, however, I also wear glasses. These can be found at any hardware store.

Supplies:
Liquid Nicotine - NO idea where to get this[/quote]

Wizard Labs is my prefered source for nicotine. Other posters have already listed other sources.

Flavoring compounds (tobacco? Gingerbread?)

Again Wizard Labs--though I have found that I have to buy some flavors directly from The Flavor Apprentice because I use them so heavily--this is true of the apple concentrate (I love apple flavor juice).

Propoline Glycol - Local drugstore has it cheap
Vegetable Glycrerin - Local drugstore has it, not cheap

I had the opposite problem. Wizard Labs has both VG and PG at reasonable prices. Also some internet vendors carry VG and PG, as well as some B&M vendors.


Questions:
Is there an economical source of quality supplies including Nicotine?

Wizard Labs is my prefered supplier of nicotine. I typically purchase the 60mg/mL strength because I vape between 15mg and 9mg.

Is there a good "Get Started" DIYers website for supplies?

That I don't know. I learned everything I did by reading the ECF and by google searching.

Does Nicotine liquid have a shelf-life? Can it be extended by freezing/cooling?

Nicotine should have a self-life in a cool, dark place of about 2 years. It is my understanding that placing nicotine in the freezer will extend this shelf-life longer.

Are there any special licenses needed to purchase Nicotine for personal use?

To my knowledge no.
 

SnakeFarm

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Thanks for all the pointers. I already have some lab equipment from another hobby (fish keeping) and I also have a magnetic stirring machine and a 250ml. corked Erlenmeyer flask that I'm dying to press into service. But I have to admit that aside from a hunch that a few hours of stirring might promote "steeping", I just think it will look really cool.

I'm not sure why I picked "1 gallon" just seems like the quantity I'd need to feel "fully stocked up". On the other hand, it seems strange to go through the trouble for anything less than 30ml.

Do I need a recipe, or is it just as simple as Mix A/B/C, stir, wait, vape?
 
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Abe_Katz

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On the other hand, it seems strange to go through the trouble for anything less than 30ml.

DIY e-liquid is as much trouble as you want it to be. Myself, I usually make 30 and 10 ml batches of liquid at a time. But I also only vape about 4ml a day (assuming I'm vaping 12mg). Considering that it generally costs me around $0.09-0.15 per ml DIY vs $0.58-0.75 per ml ready made its worth it to me. I have tight budget concerns and juice is my primary expense with vaping.

Also I constantly experiment with new flavors so its not uncommon for me to have about 20 bottles with just 5ml in them.

Do I need a recipe, or is it just as simple as Mix A/B/C, stir, wait, vape?

Depends. A known recipe, I've found usually requires some tweaking for personal taste. If you do not have a dripping atomizer for this you should acquire one (its cheaper than using cartos to test). New flavors/recipes one is working on sometimes require more involvement.

That said essentially with the syringe to bottle method--like I use--it is as simple as putting pg, vg, nicotine (optional), and flavoring into a bottle, shaking, and then waiting.

Tobacco flavors are known to require a good amount of steep time too. I recently tried a 555 recipe that was relatively simple (555 DK type tobacco flavor and TFA Original Caramel) and it required a week of steep time before it tasted half way decent.
 

Wow1420

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Thanks for all the pointers. I already have some lab equipment from another hobby (fish keeping) and I also have a magnetic stirring machine and a 250ml. corked Erlenmeyer flask that I'm dying to press into service. But I have to admit that aside from a hunch that a few hours of stirring might promote "steeping", I just think it will look really cool.

I'm not sure why I picked "1 gallon" just seems like the quantity I'd need to feel "fully stocked up". On the other hand, it seems strange to go through the trouble for anything less than 30ml.

Do I need a recipe, or is it just as simple as Mix A/B/C, stir, wait, vape?

I was concerned that you were thinking of mixing up a gallon at a time. I have 2 liters of nic in the freezer, and quart bottles of VG and PG on hand. I develop my recipes 10ml at a time (just because 10 ml makes doing the percentages for flavoring easy enough to do in my head. Once I know what works, I mix 30ml at a time. I switch flavors all the time, so 30ml lasts a while and I have a bunch of 30ml glass bottles.

Amazon is a good, cheap source for glass bottles.
 

Wow1420

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If you're not picky about having your nic exactly at a certain percentage you can do "Simple DIY method" mixing. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...per-easy-diy-method-tape-2-a.html#post9293216

But if you want the nic level to be consistent, you need to calculate percentages. E-juice me up is a good calculator program to use for this. There are also android and i-thingy programs that do this.

Different flavorings will work best at different percentages, so it takes some research and experimentation to find what you like.
 

NoFez

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Jul 9, 2011
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Iowa
SnakeFarm, someone mentioned it above, but you left out three of the most important items you need to DIY:

1) Bottles. Lots of bottles. Especially in your case, since it seems like you're trying to recreate a particular flavor, which will probably take some experimentation.

2) Labels. Self-explanatory, but leads to

3) A way to take and keep accurate notes. You're going to cry if you come up with the perfect flavor and can't reproduce it.

As far as starting amounts of "base" components, here's my opinion -- based on using wizardlabs.us, which I do and would recommend for a starter: get as little as possible to qualify for free shipping.

This will most likely be something like 250ml of 60mg/ml nicotine + 250 ml of whichever glycerine is the opposite of what's in the nic solution (e.g. nic in PG + extra bottle of VG) if you also order a few syringes, flavors, bottles, etc. at the same time. Half a liter (or a liter) total is a much better target for a starter than a gallon. Plus if you look at prices in various places, you'll see that going larger than 250ml or 500ml starts giving diminishing savings.
 

SnakeFarm

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WOW! WIzards prices are great! I got some pg/nic 60 ml and some vg and two flavors to start with. Also picked up some dedicated lab supplies to avoid poisoning the fish :) Wizard sells lab stuff at about 1/4 the price of my local lab glass store so I got a smaller Erlenmeyer while I was shopping. My 250ml is kind of on the huge side.

Here's my cart

Erlenmeyer Flask Bomex Glass - 100ml EF-BG-100ML 1 $2.99 $2.99
Gingerbread Flavor (TFA) FL-TFA-GINGER-BREAD 1 $1.49 $1.49
American Red Tobacco Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-AMERICANRED 1 $1.49 $1.49
1ml Disposable Pipette - Quantity Discounts DP-1ML 1 $0.15 $0.15
3ml Disposable Pipette DP-3ML 1 $0.15 $0.15
3ml Luer Lock Syringe - Quantity Discounts S-LL-3ML 1 $0.59 $0.59
5ml Luer Lock Syringe - Quantity Discounts S-LL-5ML 1 $0.59 $0.59
10ml Luer Lock Syringe - Quantity Discounts S-LL-10ML 1 $0.69 $0.69
14ga Blunt Tip Luer-Lock Needle 1.5" - Quantity Discounts BTN-14GA 1 $0.65 $0.65
16ga Blunt Tip Luer-Lock Needle 1.5" - Quantity Discounts BTN-16GA 1 $0.65 $0.65
60mg Nicotine solution - 250ml
- Carrier Base Liquid: 100% USP Propylene G.. NS-60MG-250ML 1 $21.29 $21.29
Vegetable Glycerin - 250ml VG-250ML 1 $5.49 $5.49
 

NoFez

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Iowa
Three suggestions:

1) I see no extra bottles on there :)

2) You're going to want at least one 1ml syringe. You can get them at a pharmacy for about a quarter, though.

3) If it's important to you to keep as close to 30mg/ml, and a 50/50 PG/VG mix as possible, you might want to get your nic in VG and then buy a bottle of PG. The reason being, most flavorings are dissolved in PG so it's easier to calculate if your nic is in VG.
 

SnakeFarm

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Sep 1, 2011
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There you go! But what about bottles?
I've been vaping for about two years and I've never been able to part with the empties. I had to overcome a serious hording tendency just to through out about half of the plastics. I guess I always knew I'd start mixing my own some day. There is actually a trash bag full in my shed.
 

Abe_Katz

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Erlenmeyer Flask Bomex Glass - 100ml EF-BG-100ML 1 $2.99 $2.99
Gingerbread Flavor (TFA) FL-TFA-GINGER-BREAD 1 $1.49 $1.49
American Red Tobacco Flavor Concentrate (TFA) FL-TFA-AMERICANRED 1 $1.49 $1.49
1ml Disposable Pipette - Quantity Discounts DP-1ML 1 $0.15 $0.15
3ml Disposable Pipette DP-3ML 1 $0.15 $0.15
3ml Luer Lock Syringe - Quantity Discounts S-LL-3ML 1 $0.59 $0.59
5ml Luer Lock Syringe - Quantity Discounts S-LL-5ML 1 $0.59 $0.59
10ml Luer Lock Syringe - Quantity Discounts S-LL-10ML 1 $0.69 $0.69
14ga Blunt Tip Luer-Lock Needle 1.5" - Quantity Discounts BTN-14GA 1 $0.65 $0.65
16ga Blunt Tip Luer-Lock Needle 1.5" - Quantity Discounts BTN-16GA 1 $0.65 $0.65
60mg Nicotine solution - 250ml
- Carrier Base Liquid: 100% USP Propylene G.. NS-60MG-250ML 1 $21.29 $21.29
Vegetable Glycerin - 250ml VG-250ML 1 $5.49 $5.49

Okay, I've never tried the two flavors so I can't comment on how good they are--also taste is subjective.

I would strongly suggest adding a 1ml syringe. Trust me you'll need it.

Also I've found that with the syringes that if you cover the markings with transparent tape, like scotch tape or packing tape, the markings will last a lot longer than they otherwise would. I've also heard that clear nail polish will do the same thing, but I'm unsure if it will react with the plastic of the syringe.
 
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