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Bench Test Results: Basen 30A 4000mAh 21700…ridiculously overrated, just an average 20A battery

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Nov 10, 2017.

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  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    While the test results are hard data, the conclusions and recommendations I make based on these tests are only my personal opinion based on my criteria for setting a rating. Carefully research any cell you are considering using before purchasing.

    Testing cells at their limits is dangerous and should never, ever, be attempted by anyone who has not thoroughly studied the dangers involved and how to minimize them.

    If the cell has only one current rating number on it, or if it only says "max" then I have to assume that the company is stating that the cell can be discharged at that current level in any way, including continuously.

    Cell photos: https://imgur . com/a/ntCiX
    (Sorry for the split link but direct links to Imgur do not display properly)


    Bottom Line
    This is a 21700 cell. It's continuous 30A rating is ridiculous as it gets hot enough to boil water when discharged at that level. It is just a 20A cell that performs worse than the iJoy 3750mAh 21700 at moderate to higher power levels.

    This Basen uses a new cell that has come to market recently. I don’t know who makes it but it’s being rewrapped by at least three different companies so far. I will be posting the results of their testing soon.

    It's capacity falls a bit short of 4000mAh in my testing. Since I’m sure I don’t have the worst performing two examples of this cell out there I have to assume that others will test even a bit lower.

    I am rating this cell at 20A and 3900mAh. I recommend staying below about 40W though to prevent excessive voltage sag and reduced vaping time.

    This cell has a plastic top insulating ring so juice spills will not damage the ring.

    Two cells were purchased by me for the purposes of testing.


    Continuous-Current Test Results
    Basen Black 30A 4000mAh 21700 CC Tests.jpg


    Pulse-Current Test Results
    Basen Black 30A 4000mAh 21700 Pulse Tests.jpg Basen Black 30A 4000mAh 21700 Pulse Tests ZOOMED.jpg


    Comparison to iJoy 21700
    Basen Black 30A 4000mAh 21700 CC Tests vs iJoy 3750mAh 21700.jpg


    Comments
     
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  2. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Thank you again Mooch! Thanks for all your hard work! :)

    Anna
     
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  3. Walee

    Walee Super Member

    Oct 6, 2017
    I've met and chatted with some folks in the music industry like Ted N and Mark F but I feel like I'm in the company of a real celebrity sharing a tiny bit of cyberspace with the famous Mooch. Now I'm gonna call all my friends and tell them I commented on a Mooch thread! Thank you Mr. Mooch for being you!
     
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  4. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Thank you Mooch for your Tireless work.

    :thumb:
     
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  5. Barkuti

    Barkuti Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Mooch, did you even considered the convenience of asking battery rewrappers what the cell provider is in each case? There now seem to be a handful of decent quality chinese li-ion cell manufacturers, still mostly unknown overseas. :|
    I believe honest companies would more than probably cooperate on this, though I could be wrong. LiitoKala, for example, is now rewrapping many quality cells and they do openly share this good for everyone, rewrapper confidence enhancing information. :thumb:

    Cheers :)
     
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  6. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Not speaking for Mooch, but solely on what I have read in my research.

    A couple of battery rewrappers openly admit to using cells from other manufacturers, namely Orbtronics and Xtar.

    Honest companies in the 18650 battery trade? :lol: Nearly all of the other companies "suspected" of being rewrappers will steadfastly deny that they buy cells from battery manufacturers and rewrap them with their own brand name. Most go even further and advertise ridiculously over-rated specifications and charge more for their "pretty" wrapper.

    Efest has been quite notorious in doing exactly that for years, but since Mooch has come along and challenged the company about their exagerated claims, they appear to have slowly become more honest with their newer models' specifications. Of course, they also have a long history of changing the cell they are using at any point in time without saying so.

    Mooch has had a tremendous positive effect on the 18650 battery industry. He has become the battery "consumer reporter".
     
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  7. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Almost none of them will tell me and most ask me not to post what I think the cell is in exchange for samples for testing. That's when the conversation becomes a tad less than polite. :)
     
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  8. classwife

    classwife Admin
    Asst Classifieds Mgr
    Ask The Vets Mgr
    Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Seems to me that at that point there is really no reason to test it :lol:
     
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  9. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Often my exact thoughts. :)
    So many people believe the hyped ratings though and in some countries there are very few alternatives. Letting them know the true ratings helps them pick the best of the worst.

    The companies learn pretty quickly though not to ask for stuff like that again. I guess they aren't used to being laid into for asking. :)
     
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  10. classwife

    classwife Admin
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    Ask The Vets Mgr
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    but then too - testing them and proving they aren't what they are represented to be...'tis a good thing.

    But to shush about it ? Noooo way !
     
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  11. xxjohnnyrocketxx

    xxjohnnyrocketxx Full Member

    Mar 18, 2017
    If it makes people feel better, I just got this battery, the shrink wrap on the battery says 20A continuous, 30A high end. However, the box still says 30A continuous which may be a bit confusing to people especially if you don't see Mooch's post. Thank you Mooch for doing this stuff for the community.
     
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  12. Barkuti

    Barkuti Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Any idea of who is producing these? It should be some chinese OEM, I think.
    I believe this is the same cell used under the wrap of the new Lii-40A, which has an amazingly affordable price:

    [​IMG]
    Speaking of performance, let me introduce yourselves the cell of the year award:

    [​IMG]
    Charge/discharge ratios: 500/250mA. :D
    Gonna luv it! :eek:
    I just gave a 4-pack of Soshine AAA 1000 cells to the friend of mine who lent me this cell, these scored 995/1042/1157/1014mAh on a 700mA charge ratio fast test. I believe he's gonna report a massive runtime improvement. :)

    Cheers :w00t:
     
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  13. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    No idea, sorry. No way to say just by comparing claimed specs and appearance IMHO. Buy a couple of each and run the tests! :)
     
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  14. Barkuti

    Barkuti Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Well, I have a couple of Lii-40A cells on the slow boat right now. At the very least I'll be able to 500mA discharge capacity test them, and somehow obtain a more or less accurate DC internal resistance estimation. This will be enough, I believe.

    Cheers :)
     
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  15. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Agreed, that can tell us a lot. There are a lot of similarly rated cells out there though. I strongly recommend an examination (using at least a 3x magnifier) of the tooling marks, top contact and venting disk structure, crimp configuration, top seal material, etc., of the cans themselves.

    That has been a fundamental aid in my identification of what cells are being rewrapped.

    Good luck and looking forward to your results!
     
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  16. Barkuti

    Barkuti Senior Member ECF Veteran

    I did not purchased the batteries for myself but for a friend, so I'll have to ask him if he doesn't minds a rewrapping of them.
    I do not predict having them in my hands at least until the second week of March. In the other hand, tester Henrik (HKJ, Flashlight information) said recently in a BLF thread he had ordered a couple for testing. The shape of the discharge curve (V(Ah) fuction) will tell so, stay tuned! :headbang:

    Cheers :)
     
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  17. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Yes, discharge curve shapes can be a part of the analysis and determination of what the cell might be. It can be problematic if it’s the only thing used though as many cells are close performers and the various age and different grade cells we get help to make it tough to only use the discharge curves. Good luck!
     
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  18. Barkuti

    Barkuti Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Update:

    [​IMG]

    They're so long they barely fit in a Lii-500's rails (cell cathodes :confused: slightly dented). AC IR measurements show slightly lower values than Samsung 25R cells. Discharge down to 2.8V at 500mA results: 3865/3898mAh. ;)

    Cheers :)
     
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  19. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    Well just read at the German flashlight forum about the Lishen 21700. Attached are 2 images. The image with the 48G and NCR201700B is taken from this forum. Comparing the Plus-side of the battery....looks very likely to be Lishen made with 4Ah capacity and 3C on CDR.
     

    Attached Files:

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