Best current cig-a-like ?

[DawnBella]

Let me say I have not tried the colibri but may be purchasing one soon. Have you thought about trying the colibri with a high nic juice like the 45mg that the king uses. I bet that would add some throat hit.

Also, their blanks are bottom coil. This means you can near direct drip with them. Drop 2-3 drops in the center hole and let sit for a second. TONS of vapor and TH. You can also (carefully) remove all the material inside and use a cart as a dripping atty. Again, no it cannot out do a tank system with an ego atty but it is a 7.8mm x 84mm cig like so. I will say not to buy their pre filled carts. They seem to always send old stock. Grrr!! Anywho, back to my eRoll for now lol

 

[DC2]

What is making the NJOY KING so amazing is the liquid being used (I think it's a gel).

For me it's the size, weight, and packaging.
The liquid for me, is tolerable at best.

 

[hvac999]

Sometimes cig-a-likes are needed when vaping in front of certain neighbors or friends for the first time. I needed my 510 for the first time in front of some church friends for the first time, until I explained.

 

[DawnBella]

For me it's the size, weight, and packaging.
The liquid for me, is tolerable at best.

(size and weight) That was a given I thought ;-) Not so thrilled with so much plastic though.

 

[unloaded]

Personally I like the blue LED on the white eRoll. It seems to instantly convey the idea that I'm getting nicotine and its electric. The orange LED with white ecig is too easily confused with and analog. Often leading to confrontation and explanation, both of which I'd rather avoid. My bigger mods, although not confused with an analog, often get me looks like they think I'm getting high or something. That doesn't bother me too much, if I'm in the mood to talk about it. The white and blue combo seems the best when I don't want to be bothered by anybody. I'm talking about vaping in places where smoking isn't allowed- the store, bars, work, mall..... The orange LED would be nice in places where smoking is allowed and you wanted to disguise the fact that you're vaping. I can see where that'd be handy when I'm not in the explaining mood.

 

[JP_Guinness]

Umm? Use the blanks and fill with a nice 24mg or more and you'll get all the TH you want. The colibri/nano is not a crappy product but, we agree on most everything else ;-) What is making the NJOY KING so amazing is the liquid being used (I think it's a gel). I have contacted NJOY about he pricing concerns and they are getting hit hard on their Facebook page too. Ball is in their court. Yes, as I said before, I would toss every mini I have and use the KING if I could afford to do so. They need to offer 3 in a pack and cost about the same as a real pack of cigs. Doubtful.

Totally agree about the 3 per pack. It almost seems like they built the packaging to accommodate this when they're ready to do it. By the way, I measured 50 cigalike drags in a King before it KOed on me. That's 4-5 cigs. They'd have to sell a three pack for $4-5 for me to consider it a a true ciggie replacement. Otherwise, I'll stick to sucking on my Volt X2 for most of the day and then the King for my social 'smoke'. Anyway, I definitely don't know everything about business, but I can think of some reasons why we might see much cheaper Kings in the future

First of all, it's very common for a company to launch a product at a relatively high price point. When there isn't not a lot of initial demand, or perhaps the demand is more or less an unknown, the company making the product will not produce a large quantity of units, and if they're not producing a large quantity of units, it raises their manufacturing costs SIGNIFICANTLY, which in turn raises the price per unit to us, the consumer. I don't want to sound condescending because I know a lot of people here already know how this works, but for those who don't, then think about it this way: If I'm making cars, I have to buy a factory with all the machines, etc, required to produce cars. The cost of this factory remains more or less the same whether I'm producing 10 cars/month or 10,000 (facility rent, equipment costs. . .). If there is little demand for my car (let's say consumers demand only 10 cars/month), I must charge them an outrageous price for that car or else I wouldn't make enough money to pay for my operating costs (factory, bla bla bla). However, if demand grew to say 10,000 cars/month, I could charge much less to the consumer because my operating costs didn't raise very much and I can now spread the operating costs among 10,000 cars instead of 10 cars produced per month. This means much cheaper cars for consumers.

Secondly, when a company produces a daily consumable, i.e. coffee, tobacco, it has two things to consider about how it's potential consumers will buy their product. First, will the consumer buy the product once or twice and then rarely after that, or will they buy the product every day? The King, as it's priced right now, definitely pertains to the former, in that NJOY knows that people are making impulse buy decisions when buying the King, and they are unlikely to become daily consumers of their product (most people anyway) because who could afford that unless they are in the top 2% income bracket, and it's a known fact that the top 2% are not really the type of people who smoke in the first place.

And so, what I'm saying is that NJOY is definitely well aware of the fact that they will not create daily consumers at the current price point of the King, and they also know that they must lower the price point per unit before they even have the chance to create daily consumers. So, when will it become cheaper? Well, I believe the initial release of the King is purported by NJOY to a) appeal to early adopters, b) asses the demand for their product, c) stimulate demand (they do this by word of mouth reputation and advertising. Once the demand raises, the supply will raise and the price will drop, significantly. Just like I stated in the example above, NJOY will be able to produce tens pf thousands of more units per moth and this will lower their costs and in turn our costs. It would be stupid for them not to lower the price in response to large demand. We call it Laws of Supply and Demand for a reason. Business that are not mindful of these laws are pushed out of the market or they are purchased by a very competent market player (i.e. P.Morris, and I bet anyone here $100 that's what's going to happen). Anyway, that could be why their packaging already has room for 3 ecigs per box. They already have everything set up for cheaper production, and they're just waiting for this initial "trial" to become unprofitable (b/c people will stop buying at the current price as there isnt a ton of daily repeat customers) and the the cost will be lowered and 3 will be sold per case.

To go on a slight tangent, here's why it could be awesome for a larger, more powerful company to buy NJOY (hopefully it won't be Philip Morris, but I think it may be): organizations that are already established do not have the initial startup costs that a new manufacturer like you or I would have if we were to open up an ecig production factory. They're already established, both their facilities and their reputation. Additionally, a big established company can afford the risk of over producing (over supplying) in the first year of marketing the product. Also, established companies already streamlined operations and, by competing with other players in the respective market for years, they figured out how to effectively advertise, keep costs at a minimum, etc. all of these factors lower the final price point of the product.

 

[JP_Guinness]

..... The orange LED would be nice in places where smoking is allowed and you wanted to disguise the fact that you're vaping. I can see where that'd be handy when I'm not in the explaining mood.

This is exactly how/when I like the orange LED and all e other cigalike qualities. I want to reiterate to everyone that I'm NOT at all against the larger PVs. I've been sucking on my X2 And smaller 65mm Volt ecigs while typing all of these posts, day and night. I want a true, working cigalike so I can use it during "smoke breaks" at work, bars, parties and the like. Like I was explaining a couple posts back, I like fitting in to the subcultures I identify with. I am very much so my own person and I try to be very honest with myself, and I will openly admit that I like to fit in when its reasonable to do so and isn't taxing on me or forcing me to go against what I believe to be right.

 

[Drael]

I honestly do not care one bit if the guy next to me thinks I'm smoking. I know I'm doing something healthier, and that's all that matters to me. I love cigarettes. I love the ritual--putting it up to my mouth, letting it dangle hands free while I take a drag. I love the conversations I have with people when I'm taking a smoke break. I HATE it when I go back to my office and I smell like an ash tray; when I burn holes in my jackets and car seat; when I cough and wheeze; when I realize that if I continue smoking until the age of 55, I have a 20% of dying before I turn 60. That's 1 in 5. Most smokers love ciggies and hate all the bad stuff that comes with it. Im talking about love and hate at the same time. That's ambivalence. That's addiction.

This whole industry sprang up out of nowhere and picked up momentum quickly because it offered the potential for a person to have the same smoking experience, but not all the bad stuff at comes with it.

Now, we, as humans, are a gregarious species. We like doing things together. We like doing the same things as others. These are some of the defining characteristics of what defines a culture or sub-culture. In the smoking sub-culture (lumping all smokers together), vaping a flashlight sized PV with a blue LED and a tank is a departure from the norm. You know...I'm a motorcyclist, and I ride super sport bikes. There's a huge sub-culture of sport bike riders, and, like all subcultures, there are social norms, values, mores, ideals, etc., etc. . . let's say one day I show up at a group ride with an odd-looking new motorcycle, say it has a large front tire and a very small rear tire, and the horn sounds like a doorbell and it has a steering wheel instead of handlebars (I realize how,unrealistic this sounds). Guess what would happen? I would be a friggin' weirdo and would no longer fit in my subculture of bike riders. This is the part where someone says, 'dude, who cares what other people think about you? Do your own thing, be your own person.'. Then I would respond: dude, go grab an intro to Sociology textbook. Social norms and subcultures pervade, and often overlap, all layers/classes/categories of a society, and within these subcultures, people adhere to the social norms defined by the subculture. Cops act like cops, executives like executives, frat brothers act like frat brothers, and so on and so on. We have evolved this way. It is even described in Darwin's Origin of Species. Birds of a feather flock together. Even when you analyze subcultures like the hippies or even the hipsters (I can't stand those hypocrites) you can see very defined norms, and as hypocritical as it sounds, if one does not follow suit, they're more of an outcast. Mom, Dad and your school teachers may have told you to be your own person and not worry about what other people think about you, but that's just because they couldn't explain to a young kid how fitting-in is good to an extent, but we should still be our own persons and think for ourselves.

I digress (constantly). Addressing what you said, Drael- desiring blue LEDs and non cigalike PVs may be a norm for this subculture on ECF, but it is DEFINITELY not what is desired by the larger subculture of, and the potentially even larger subculture of prospective tobacco to vaping converts. I KNOW this from both looking at the market research (lots can be found on Google), talking to EVERY smoker outside of my office building, and just looking at how well the NJOY King is doing despite it's high price and ridiculously short batt life (compare it to the Blu, which is sold along side the King at several gas stations in the Washington, DC area).

-Sent using TapTalk for iPad

In the smoking subculture, vaping is a departure from the norm, no matter what colours you are using. In the broader culture, smoking is a depature from the norm. Within vaping, orange leds are a departure from the norm. I guess the real issue is, what do you identify yourself as mentally?

I use a mini (cig-a-like) with non-ciggarette colours (see my profile pic). Everyone knows that its an e-cig, so theres no confusion there. The only people that have asked me questions are smokers interested in alternatives or are curious, and smokers certainly haven't treated me as an outcast at all. When others are smoking, often, I vape. All its ever elicted are a few curious questions.

Sometimes when I am vaping inside, in public spaces I hear people mumble to themselves "oh, its an e-cig".

I have much less desire to be constantly included in that smoking group. They have to huddle together on the edges of society. They get people fake coughing. They cant smoke inside. They are marginalised.

They also need to smoke one ciggie at a time, so their behaviour is more of a "now we are smoking, now we are not" thing. Vaping is more of an ongoing sipping behaviour. Where smokers have to go outside to quickly imbibe their nicotine, I can just slip my e-cig out of my pocket, take one puff and put it back again.

From an image point of view, I can vape most places that I could never smoke (if i vape, people dont say "no smoking here"), I never get dirty looks or fake coughs from non-smokers etc.

Best of both worlds IMO. I would never ever want an orange led, or a red one, or a white battery, or yellow carto. If you forced me to use one, id thoroughly hate it.

Even when I used to use a white battery with blue led, people used to often think I was smoking. I would get angry looks and "theres no smoking here". Bugger that!

Most long term vapers that I am aware of, don't want to be confused with smokers. Noobie vapers tend to desire something ciggarette identical, but they quickly get over that when they realise the stigma that invites, and stop identifying themselves mentally as "smokers".

As a general rule, people ive spoken to at least, "move beyond" wanting to be confused with smokers.

They may still want their device to have a familiar ritual feel, and be recognisable as an e-cig, so as to avoid the whole "mod" look that attracts lots of attention/questions though. I certiantly am happy using something that has a recognisable shape and usage style, so people at least know its an e-cig. People are familiar with the concept, even if they havent seen one.

I can see why people initially crave the familiar definately. I wanted a mini so I could "scissor it", and usually I do. But now also, I find myself sometimes holding it more like a hookah lazily when I am at home, its actually an easier movement for something which doesnt have a painful burning bit on the end, even if its more unfamiliar. I also dont tend to just vape in small sections, ala ciggie smoking. So less "sessions", more "sips". Theres no end or start of vaping, one can slowly sip on a e-cig, taking a puff or two at a time, with breaks in between.

My behaviour and what is familiar is adapting. Its not the same thing, so thats kind of inevitable to some degree.

Personally id be quite happy if red/orange leds and white ciggarette colours were banned altogether. Saves anyone ever having trouble differentiating the two at a distance, which means that vaping can take place more freely and no association.

I realise that initial smoking converts will desire something that looks exactly like a ciggarette - but thats only because they are mentally identifying as "smokers" still, and havent realised the social stigma they can easily avoid, the freedom that vaping can bring.

Where smoking always got me unwanted attention, when vaping my cig-a-like in black and stainless steel with green and blue led, I am comparably invisible. No one has ever giving me angry looks, or confused looks, or said "no smoking here" no matter where I have vaped. All that it has elicted is the very occasional - "whats that"? , usually from smokers.

I really do suggest to everyone to try vaping with something completely outside of ciggie colours for a little while, and just see what its like socially. Try something without a white battery, or orange/red led - something thats familiar enough as an e-cig shape, but looks nothing like a ciggie at the same time.

I would personally never ever go back to those colours, not for any situation. I was so set on still being identified as a smoker initially, mentally and socially lol. So very very glad I was advised to avoid like colours by a veteran, and went with it.

I identify as a vaper, not a smoker. I prefer that to be as visually obvious as possible.

What exactly is it about smoking breaks, that you dislike when using your volt, or e-roll? Do you get constant questions? (For me questions are pretty darn rare actually. And when I get them, I like it, I see it as a chance to do some promotion/conversion ). I imagine you still get to participate in conversation etc, be included etc (ive noticed nothing to the contrary with smokers).

 

[Drael]

Maybe (seems pretty darn likely IMO), NJOY is just a "bridge" product. For noobs and converts like. For a start, who wants to buy a disposable when they can more cheaply (in the medium-long term) buy stuff thats longer lasting etc..

 

[JudeD]

I think when most people start, they want a cig lookalike and tastealike, but that doesn't usually last long for most people. I have a range of PVs from sticks to twists to a Reo and a Provari mini. I like that they don't look like a cig. I also have erolls and I like that the light is blue and not orange. I don't want to look like a smoker because I'm not a smoker. I vape, and that gives me so many more options in flavor, size, strength, and shape. Why would I want to go back to vaping on something that looks exactly like what I was so happy to give up? Why would I want to blend in with smokers?

The nice thing about vaping is there are options for everyone. There are cigalikes that look like a cig if that's what you want and plenty of PV's that look nothing like a cig. If they are going to change the eRoll, I hope they make the PCC so it can hold two eRolls and maybe an extra tank or two. But if they change it so the light is orange and it looks more like a burning cig, I'll just use the ones I have until they die and not buy anymore. I like the eRoll for quick breaks between meetings and because I can hold it while I type, but I can live without it. If they offer the option of choosing either an orange light or a blue one, that would make more people happy and I would continue to order blue ones.

Someone said something about the members on here being mostly young tech-savvy people. I'm fifty-three and I have no problem using this forum or my PV's. There is a whole thread dedicated to older vapers. Whenever anyone starts a "tell us your vaping story" thread, I see post after post from members who say they smoked for twenty-five, thirty, thirty-five years. I think there are a lot more "senior" members on here than you think.

Talking about subcultures and fitting in, someone had to roll the first cigarette and it didn't become popular overnight. And I'm sure the first people to smoke filtered cigarettes got a few odd looks. Whenever something is new, it takes a while for it to become mainstream, but I don't think the answer to making vaping mainstream is to make it look more like a habit that is repulsive to a majority of the public. I don't think all cops, executives, frat brothers, etc. act alike. They have things in common that bind them, but they are still individuals. I don't know much about super sport bikes, but I'm sure all of you don't have exactly the same model that are tricked out exactly the same and when someone finds out about a new part for his bike that makes it run better or look sweeter, do you make fun of that guy or do you ask about it and think about getting one for your own ride? Society is constantly changing and evolving with new fads, technology, rules, and acceptable habits. Smoking is never going to be a socially acceptable habit again. Let's do everything we can to not link vaping to it.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I gotta break down for my old standby, the NJoy PRO Mini. It has disposable cartomizers that you can refill and the little batteries last FOREVER (+16 months, anyway) Good go to for a little rip. Cheap. Simple. and looks like the real - especially with the red led at the end.