Beta Carboline MAOIs - towards a more effective e-liquid

[tescela]

This is fantastic data, kinabaloo (really...simply fantastic...thank you very much).

We really need a reliable source of pharmaceutical-grade ingredients (like the passion flower extract mentioned) plus formulas for mixing with pg and nic.

Any updates, anyone?

 

[Tanner S Hyde]

Anyone else notice sweet tea or coffee is a really good beverage to enjoy while sitting around reading forums on the PT? Read the OP again and tell me about my "ahah" moment there...

 

[Aizen-sama]

Sorry to be that guy, but I'm curious, is there any data about how many mg of MAOI are in a traditional full flavor filtered cigarette? I have a syrian rue tincture in PGA with around 75mg/ml MAOI alkaloids, and I'm looking to get a good guideline on how to mix with my eliquid to accurately recreate the smoking experience.

I'm currently vaping a mixture of ~11ml 24mg Halo Cool, 2ml syrian rue tincture, 1ml 18mg TW Camel, and 1ml VG. (Originally it was just the Halo and the rue, but I added the Camel for better taste and the VG to thicken it). It does seem to have a slight calming effect that I don't think is placebo, but it's not very strong at all.

vaping the tincture straight has a definite calming effect, but it tastes really weird. Not entirely unpleasant, just...off.

 

[tescela]

I wish we knew the answer to this.

 

[ECCO]

Sorry to be that guy, but I'm curious, is there any data about how many mg of MAOI are in a traditional full flavor filtered cigarette? I have a syrian rue tincture in PGA with around 75mg/ml MAOI alkaloids, and I'm looking to get a good guideline on how to mix with my eliquid to accurately recreate the smoking experience.

I'm currently vaping a mixture of ~11ml 24mg Halo Cool, 2ml syrian rue tincture, 1ml 18mg TW Camel, and 1ml VG. (Originally it was just the Halo and the rue, but I added the Camel for better taste and the VG to thicken it). It does seem to have a slight calming effect that I don't think is placebo, but it's not very strong at all.

Vaping the tincture straight has a definite calming effect, but it tastes really weird. Not entirely unpleasant, just...off.

The total alkaloid content of each manufacturer's blend would vary by way of curing methods, different variants and species of tobacco used in the different blends (some species have an impressive amount of MAOI's, others negligible), age, location grown, etc; part of the reason for so many synthetic additives is to give a more universal experience of their mixtures. You may be able to put together an average for North American and Turkish blends, which are the most common in the US, but Rue extract is going to be much different than most any commercial tobacco in alkaloid profile.

If you really want to play around with natural tobacco and MAOI combos, your best bet is to make a good extract of N. rustica and use it to make your own DIY juice. It has much more nicotine than N. tabacum, as well as a similar alkaloid profile to Rue. As an aside, the alkaloid profile of Rue (and Caapi) isn't very similar to to what you're used to at all. Harmine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmine are the significant actives in both Rue and N. rustica (which also has nicotine, of course), which is different from the harman, norharman, and anabasine that are present in N. tabacum. Just because they're all MAOI's doesn't mean they're the same.

 

[ThaVaporz]

So i just ordered the 1 gram of 95% pure harmine/harmaline. Did no one try it? I'm assuming with people vaping the tincture and passionflower, that it does indeed hit the BP of these molecules. And yes, while it does say not for human consumption, its honest purpose is for the use of hallucinogenic drugs, you can tell by the other things he sells on his site and that its made of "100% food grade material". I've been looking for a Gas chromatography readout to tell me the levels of these molecules(or there relatives) in tobacco smoke, but unfortunately, these readouts cost $30-40. So im thinking ill just wing it, and if necessary ill purchase one of those. I was looking up the solubility of it, and since its in glycerin extracts, thats a no brainer. But the mg/ml is confusing for me, I read one site say that in organic extracts its solubility is 1.5mg/ml, so i dunno if that will hold a strong enough effect. Altho Aizen-sama says his is 75mg/ml, so perhaps it can hold a lot more. Can't wait to test it out.

So i wonder if with this stuff, how much my e-juice will glow, that just makes it that much cooler too.

 

[ThaVaporz]

for anyone interested, sad to see this thread died. I did try this out, the harmine/harmaline took awfully long to come but it did. Just mixed up a batch and wow! I think this is the missing thing!!! And I'm kinda upset over how this has been overlooked. Just tossed a small capfull in a 10ml, gonna get more precise with it later but definetly noticed it.

 

[me who]

for anyone interested, sad to see this thread died. I did try this out, the harmine/harmaline took awfully long to come but it did. Just mixed up a batch and wow! I think this is the missing thing!!! And I'm kinda upset over how this has been overlooked. Just tossed a small capfull in a 10ml, gonna get more precise with it later but definetly noticed it.

Cool, Thanks for updating, I'll be following this

 

[tescela]

for anyone interested, sad to see this thread died. I did try this out, the harmine/harmaline took awfully long to come but it did. Just mixed up a batch and wow! I think this is the missing thing!!! And I'm kinda upset over how this has been overlooked. Just tossed a small capfull in a 10ml, gonna get more precise with it later but definetly noticed it.

Ok, ThaVaporz: all eyes are on you. Please share the details!

 

[ThaVaporz]

Ok, ThaVaporz: all eyes are on you. Please share the details!

Haha, good to know people are still interested in this. I will work on measuring out the proper mg/ml ratio, but without a doubt harmine and harmala are soluble in propylene glycol and i assume too glycerine. But yes, this definetly adds to the relaxation of nicotine. I smoked tobacco, but not a cig and i felt the same feeling awhile ago before trying this. I believe this used to be an overpowering feeling I had when i used to not smoke so much tobacco, and indeed i felt the maoi was a bit overpowering when i first tried it (as i had not had a cigarette in 2 months!) but i think my body is now used to it at the end of the day and it certainly is a nice addition.

I've been wondering why maoi's havent been put into NRT items. Especially after that report. I was fantasizing i could get rich if i patented "insertion of MAOI's in NRTs" and sold it to big pharma, haha, but to my displease, i googled it and it has infact been patented. I wonder why big pharma doesnt use them, my guess is that it would be more effective at smoking cessation (as from what I've read, snus is way more effective than the gum or patch)

But maybe theyd just like to keep us all smoking...

 

[tattooer601]

Trust me my friend....Im checking this thread day by day in hopes of a maoi e liquid...

 

[Max0819]

Definitely watching this thread.

One of the hardest parts I have in dropping analogs, is the 'hang on let me think a moment, while having a cig'. The calming, focusing part is just not there with ecig.

Don't get me wrong I'd like to taper it all off, but in the meantime, I have to continue my daily life, which needs no added stress, or lack of focus.

Thanks to all those learned in such things,

Max

 

[ThaVaporz]

So just to drop some more knowledge. These maoi's im putting in (harmine and harmaline) are called RIMA's (Reversible Inhibition of Monoamide Oxidase A) They are reversible meaning they don't last that long, and are not that strong and do not generally cause contradictions with tyramines.(beer, cheese, and other things) They have pharmaceutical MAOI's which are not reversible, and take time to start taking effect and it is bad to imbibe tyramines on those.

Tobacco contains both these MAO-A (RIMA) and MAO-B.

"The inhibition of MAO-A cause the rise of norepinephrine, dopamine and serotonin in the synaptic cleft, of MAO-B only of dopamine. "

So I'm assuming the MAO-B does its share of inhibiting the breakdown of dopamine, and should be a necessary ingredient. Harmine and Harmaline are not MAO-B inhibitors. Furthermore I'd like to clarify that to my knowledge they are not present in tobacco. And as stated previously, MAOI's are not all the same. But I'm assuming these are damn close because they are both RIMAs. However nornicotine, norharman, harman, are hard to come across, fortunately harmine and harmaline are for their intended "unintended" use (if u have extensive knowledge on MAOI's u'll know what im talking about. )

So I'm going to research into if theres any readily available MAO-B inhibitors.

However, i am guessing right now that to produce all necessary maoi's, an ACID/BASE extraction of tobacco is required. I assume this would extract all necessary alkaloids, as this is how harmine and harmaline can be extracted from the caapi root. Any chemists feel free to drop knowledge!

 

[Stubby]

However, i am guessing right now that to produce all necessary maoi's, an ACID/BASE extraction of tobacco is required. I assume this would extract all necessary alkaloids, as this is how harmine and harmaline can be extracted from the caapi root. Any chemists feel free to drop knowledge!

This has already been done by DVap. Take a look at this thread
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html

Not only has it been done but there where 4 testers from the forum who used the complete alkaloid extraction e-liquid. You may be trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[DVap]

You may be trying to reinvent the wheel.

Messy, expensive, and exacting work, all at the same time.

I've had a couple projects line up for some time now.. both sort of on the back burner because I can think of a hundred things I'd rather do that extract and clean up alkaloids from tobacco.

 

[hittman]

DVap, I wish I could have been involved as one of the testers but my turning point came after all of that had already transpired. Should you ever require someone to test some of the WTA liquid, I would gladly volunteer. I understand that it is alot of work for you and do not really expect you to do it but should the occasion arise then I would like to volunteer. Thank you for your time and hard work. I really enjoyed reading the " are we getting it" thread.

 

[grim_piper]

I slipped up and have had about 9 analogs over the past month. I don't want to start smoking again, but MY GOD, The rush! The something missing was missed more than I missed nicotine. I've been reading these threads for the past couple of months, so I bit the bullet yesterday, and bought passion flower extract. I put in approximately 1 drop per ml of my juice. For me, it works. I even got the lovely tingle buzz. I vaped with people smoking analogs near me and had no cravings for their stink sticks. I'm calm and happy again. I didn't tell anybody about my experiment, but others noticed the difference in my demeanor. I'll keep updates about my condition in case there are any adverse results, but so far so wonderful!

 

[BCB]

Where did you buy the passion flower extract (internet or health food store) and what was its strength?

 

[KonaNeil]

I grow the vine and use the fruit. It makes exceptional margaritas and baked goods.

I never thought much about the flowers. From the taste of the fruit, I would expect it to be somewhat acidic. Does it add a citrus like taste to the liquid?

 

[grim_piper]

I am not sure of the strength. I bought it at a healthfood store. I will write the manufacturing company(they are local to me) and ask the concentration.

It taste is hardly what could be described as citrus-like. It lends a taste somewhere between tobacco and a less legal smokable.