Beta Carboline MAOIs - towards a more effective e-liquid

[tceight]

So 400mg total in oil. After perfect acid extraction into 5ml water, that's 400/5 mg/ml, ~80mg/ml
After diluting 1:4 with VG will be ~16mg/ml
Citric acid content in end-product: 1.25g in 25ml; 0.05g / ml (50mg / ml)

80mg/ml.....
this is nothing to sneeze at.
for peace of mind, why not mix the VG with the acid first, before extraction. Makes the separation and recover easier.
While the 'measured' pH would be lower, my weak grasp of the chemistry going on tells me that the protonation would still be 100% because the VG would play no part. (doesn't ionize)

 

[kinabaloo]

ps: you are using 'light' mineral oil (only a little more viscous than water) ?

 

[kinabaloo]

80mg/ml.....
this is nothing to sneeze at.
for peace of mind, why not mix the VG with the acid first, before extraction. Makes the separation and recover easier.
While the 'measured' pH would be lower, my weak grasp of the chemistry going on tells me that the protonation would still be 100% because the VG would play no part. (doesn't ionize)

Yeah, maybe I baulked too soon on that one. I also wanted to check that the VG and mineral would not mix, but havent as yet.

VG is hydrophilic - hydrogen bonding if i remember correctly. I guess that would work in our favor if anything.

 

[kinabaloo]

Hmm... then maybe give the acid solution some help. Instead of 25 g to 100 mL, use 32 g/100 mL. And probably make sure the total final volume is 100 mL, not 32g plus 100 mL water. Not sure if that was specified.

I thought we'd all know that

Not a huge difference but worth bearing in mind. What's the volume of 32g of citric acid? At a guess under 10ml; but point taken. And would that volume change on being dissolved ??? To a casual observer, the volume of water seems to barely change when dissolve stuff in it (even discounting the air in a powder / crystalline dry form.

I am wondering whether to stick with 25g in 100ml because the maths is simpler. And if have a 50g tub, one knows to use half of it. However, probably better to go with the 32/33g (1/3 100) ...

 

[kinabaloo]

Coarse filter before fine filter.

If google ;oil filtering, lots of articles on reusing cooking oil, for more cooking. One should NEVER reuse cooking oil for cooking!

 

[slopes]

I am wondering whether to stick with 25g in 100ml because the maths is simpler. And if have a 50g tub, one knows to use half of it. However, probably better to go with the 32/33g (1/3 100) ...

Will this stuff keep once it's mixed up? I'd much rather measure out and mix together 33g of citric acid to 100ml of water than the small quantities mentioned here... I'm likely to be far more accurate that way - and even do it 'by eye'. Maybe the excess can be bottled up and stored in the fridge?

 

[kinabaloo]

slopes - have you used your pollen press yet ?

btw, I also thought about the timed vape, but in the end it's an advantage of vaping that one can take as many puffs as one wants. However, the low-level heating is neat (theater lighting does this so the lights become bright very quick, powered to just below glowing. Would use up battery power fast though.

 

[kinabaloo]

Will this stuff keep once it's mixed up? I'd much rather measure out and mix together 33g of citric acid to 100ml of water than the small quantities mentioned here... I'm likely to be far more accurate that way - and even do it 'by eye'. Maybe the excess can be bottled up and stored in the fridge?

Exactly, without precision scales, need to do in 'bulk'. Should store fine, afaik. For a few weeks anyway.

 

[tceight]

ps: you are using 'light' mineral oil (only a little more viscous than water) ?

not sure what you mean.... or why viscosity would matter?
if memory serves, even the lightest machine oils are at least at least 40 times as viscous as water. (@20 C)

 

[tceight]

Yeah, maybe I baulked too soon on that one. I also wanted to check that the VG and mineral would not mix, but havent as yet.

VG is hydrophilic - hydrogen bonding if i remember correctly. I guess that would work in our favor if anything.

completely immiscible. If you remember back to my attempts, I've mixed both PG and VG with mineral oil. The both separate easily and fast. Very fast. I would expect that's a function of their high SG.

 

[tceight]

Will this stuff keep once it's mixed up? I'd much rather measure out and mix together 33g of citric acid to 100ml of water than the small quantities mentioned here... I'm likely to be far more accurate that way - and even do it 'by eye'. Maybe the excess can be bottled up and stored in the fridge?

can't see why it wouldn't. I mixed with sterile demin water, my solution is over 4 months old, and still use it. Haven't even considered that it might "go bad". What's to go bad? if it were lime juice, or something... then I would worry.

 

[kinabaloo]

completely immiscible. If you remember back to my attempts, I've mixed both PG and VG with mineral oil. The both separate easily and fast. Very fast. I would expect that's a function of their high SG.

The mineral oil I have could be mistaken for water, if one didn't see the label. I mean turning the botle upside down and such.

 

[slopes]

slopes - have you used your pollen press yet ?

btw, I also thought about the timed vape, but in the end it's an advantage of vaping that one can take as many puffs as one wants. However, the low-level heating is neat (theater lighting does this so the lights become bright very quick, powered to just below glowing. Would use up battery power fast though.

No I haven't used the pollen press yet - I've been holding off until the general acid question was answered. I have to source some more liquid paraffin (mineral oil) too if that is a better option than olive oil.

It used to take me about 7.5 minutes to smoke an analog - which consisted of about 10 inhalations. My experience the other day with the broken battery introduced to vaping the idea of a beginning and end, in between this the device being 'active'... very much like the experience with an analogue. The fact that the device was warm and pluming out low levels of valour between drags also added to the experience. The main thing though, was that in the intermediate periods, between puffs, the device was producing and storing vapour which was instantly available to inhale and added to that produced upon dragging. All these factors made the whole process feel effortless and easy-going just like smoking (especially so with the effect of WTA).

The proposed device could be switched on by, say, twisting the battery barrel a quarter turn, and would then have an auto shut off after 7.5 minutes. It would be easy to mod an E2 carto to have two half-coils... one of which was 'always live' (once the device is switched on) and the other activated in the usual way by dragging (ie: as with an auto battery). I think I'd be very happy to sacrifice some amount of power* to gain this experience.

(*meaning only a more frequent battery change)

 

[kinabaloo]

No I haven't used the pollen press yet - I've been holding off until the general acid question was answered. I have to source some more liquid paraffin (mineral oil) too if that is a better option than olive oil.

It used to take me about 7.5 minutes to smoke an analog - which consisted of about 10 inhalations. My experience the other day with the broken battery introduced to vaping the idea of a beginning and end, in between this the device being 'active'... very much like the experience with an analogue. The fact that the device was warm and pluming out low levels of valour between drags also added to the experience. The main thing though, was that in the intermediate periods, between puffs, the device was producing and storing vapour which was instantly available to inhale and added to that produced upon dragging. All these factors made the whole process feel effortless and easy-going just like smoking (especially so with the effect of WTA).

The proposed device could be switched on by, say, twisting the battery barrel a quarter turn, and would then have an auto shut off after 7.5 minutes. It would be easy to mod an E2 carto to have two half-coils... one of which was 'always live' (once the device is switched on) and the other activated in the usual way by dragging (ie: as with an auto battery). I think I'd be very happy to sacrifice some amount of power* to gain this experience.

(*meaning only a more frequent battery change)

You know what, I tink it would sell.

A line of LEDS in the translucent battery stem could indicate the burn time.

 

[kinabaloo]

I think it should be switched by a 'lighter'.

The lighter would be a battery pack. The e-cig would instantly charge a super-capacitor that could last the 8 minutes.

 

[tceight]

just thinking out loud here......
the unspoken premise we assume here, is that the minor alkaloids act enough like nicotine so as to effect efficient transfer.
is it possible, that the minor alkaloids are more soluble at the higher pH than nicotine?
What has me thinking, is I've done 8 different extractions so far, all slightly different, all differing in their effects.... but ALL of them, even the first one with a very weak dilute acid did have obvious neurological effect.

 

[slopes]

I think it should be switched by a 'lighter'.

The lighter would be a battery pack. The e-cig would instantly charge a super-capacitor that could last the 8 minutes.

LOL - here's a mod I made a few months ago (bic shows scale)...

 

[kinabaloo]

just thinking out loud here......
the unspoken premise we assume here, is that the minor alkaloids act enough like nicotine so as to effect efficient transfer.
is it possible, that the minor alkaloids are more soluble at the higher pH than nicotine?
What has me thinking, is I've done 8 different extractions so far, all slightly different, all differing in their effects.... but ALL of them, even the first one with a very weak dilute acid did have obvious neurological effect.

Long forgotten where I saw the info, but apparantly the minor alkaloids are lost in greater proportion to nicotine in cigarettes and pipes. And therefore the WTA was always likely to be 'minor alkaloid' rich.

Whether there is further positive selection through the method we're using I've no idea*, but the first point could be sufficient explanation.

* Unless the minor alkaloids such as harman don't have the double protonation need.

 

[kinabaloo]

LOL - here's a mod I made a few months ago (bic shows scale)...

Did you mean that ash effect as well ?

Is it from a disposable? Cartomiser ?

Nice picture

 

[JohnKing]

Ok, couldn't resist, here's my first batch.

I diluted it 6ml extract/21ml VG and a ml or so of sweetener/flavors and I just loaded a fresh clear cr2, had about 15-16 drags so far..

Does this look about right?

I started w 20mg organic tobacco, this vapes pretty nice, I've bought juices that tasted a lot worse. I think my final extract is a bit cloudy because I used 1000mg vitamin C pills vs. pure citric acid, it has a hint of citrus to the vape, so not so bad, I'll probably give the extract another filtering just to clean it up.

I am definitely sensing something "more" about this but it could be placebo, I'll post more as I go.

Thanks guys, I really do appreciate all the information sharing.