Beta Carboline MAOIs - towards a more effective e-liquid

[slopes]

I am placing a closely-fitting coin in the garlic press (on top of the mix) to prevent the prongs pushing down through the holes I have to go and buy some rubber gloves as this is turning out to be quite a messy business - the mixture stains and I'm worried about getting too much more of it on my skin.

 

[kinabaloo]

Good idea.

Then ready for the last steps & tasting

step8.
add a tiny 'pinch' of acid powder (vit C/ascorbic acid or cream of tartar) to the oil and shake well.
it won't dissolve in there, but that is not what we are trying to do.
we are just attempting to displace any of the leftover baking soda particulate with the acid, so that in the next step, the acidic polar solvent won't be neutralized by any remaining baking soda.
Let the particulate settle, and pour off the oil into a clean container.


Step 9.
add a drop of the acidic water you made in step one to your PG or glycerine, 1 or 2 drops per 10 ml is enough.
- add 10ml of the PG to the oil, shake well, let separate, and extract the PG with the syringe.
- add 10ml, shake well, let separate, and extract the PG with the syringe.

- assuming there is 200mg of alkaloids in the oil, you would add 10ml of PG to get 20mg/ml.
This stuff is way stronger than any nic juice i've tried, so I kept adding 10ml at a time, until I had 40ml. (5mg/ml assuming)​

 

[tceight]

Hey slopes.
yes, it can get really messy. The icing gun I have here is all metal and has a ratcheting mechanism on the handle, so I can apply pressure... let it sit for a while, come back apply another 'click', more pressure, let it sit, etc. You can feel it bottom out, and it takes a lot more pressure to get that final 'click' as the tobacco is compressed.
I use an icing gun tip that has a small X on the bottom, and put a small ball of filter paper in the bottom. I never had it 'blow through' before, but have had particulate come through.
With the trouble you are having, and if your gun can't maintain the pressure, maybe the interface method would work better for you.

 

[slopes]

I am having some success now. I bought a cheap prongless garlic press (as well as some essential rubber gloves).

I have taken a nylon 'pyramid' teabag and cut along one edge to empty it.

Into the teabag I spoon a small teaspoon of mix. I gather and pinch the teabag opening together and place the bag into the press (keeping the bag opening clear of the plunger). This seems to work very well. With a small amount of pressure at first, a good amount of oil is retrieved. The pressure can slowly be increased to drain off further drops until nothing more appears.

The waste matter is a small briquette of dried, pressed tobacco - which can be discarded into a separate container.

 

[tceight]

I am having some success now. I bought a cheap prongless garlic press (as well as some essential rubber gloves).

I have taken a nylon 'pyramid' teabag and cut along one edge to empty it.

Into the teabag I spoon a small teaspoon of mix. I gather and pinch the teabag opening together and place the bag into the press (keeping the bag opening clear of the plunger). This seems to work very well. With a small amount of pressure at first, a good amount of oil is retrieved. The pressure can slowly be increased to drain off further drops until nothing more appears.

The waste matter is a small briquette of dried, pressed tobacco - which can be discarded into a separate container.

briquette sounds about right, surprisingly dense little thing isn't it?
using the nylon baggie, and depending on how fine you ground, you may have quite a bit of particulate come through. Rather than filter you can lett it settle out... which takes another day, or... put it in a small bottle, tie a couple feet of string to it and spin it for a few minutes. Works faster than you would believe.

 

[kinabaloo]

I have taken a nylon 'pyramid' teabag and cut along one edge to empty it.

That's the stuff! Didn't know there were teabags made with it - ideal

What is the brand or where to get this/these ?

 

[slopes]

tceight - The solid waste is quite rewarding to see - I wonder if there is anything to be gained by introducing more hot oil to this and running a second pressing?

My yield looks to be about 40ml - it is brown, but it's cloudy. A filtering is definitely required.

kinabaloo - nylon tea bags are very hard to find in the UK as we still prefer to use the paper ones. The brand I found is called 'TeaPigs' herbal teas.

 

[tceight]

tceight - The solid waste is quite rewarding to see - I wonder if there is anything to be gained by introducing more hot oil to this and running a second pressing?

My yield looks to be about 40ml - it is brown, but it's cloudy. A filtering is definitely required.

kinabaloo - nylon tea bags are very hard to find in the UK as we still prefer to use the paper ones. The brand I found is called 'TeaPigs' herbal teas.

40ml sounds like a lot from 20 grams of tobacco. I normally aim for 1 ml per gram. Like I said, less is more when doing your initial soak, as you want to keep things concentrated. Work with what you got!


do a second pass if you would like, I've never bothered. maybe do a second pass and keep that liquid to add to the next batch of fresh tobacco you process instead of new oil.

 

[slopes]

It's probably much less than 40ml - difficult to tell at the moment as it's in a stainless steel pot. In fact I used 25 grams of tobacco to start with (2 x pouches) as I didn't want the temptation of any tobacco left unsmoked in the house! So I upped the measurement of the other ingredients slightly too.

I'm about to decant it into a plastic juice bottle so I can try your centrifugal cleaning suggestion.

 

[slopes]

I'd like to try with this stuff next:
'Fribourg & Treyer High Dry Toast Snuff'

It is described as "Made of Zimbabwe Flue Cured Stem, Dark Fired Leaf & Sun Cured Leaf, this is an all-natural snuff with no added flavours." The texture is so fine it is said to be like talcum powder (and strong too) - which should make it ideal for this process. Per gram it's about half the price of rolling tobacco and a third of cigarettes (UK prices).

http://www.snuffstore.co.uk/fribourg-treyer-high-dry-toast-snuff-pi-387.html

 

[slopes]

The oil amounts to 30ml. It is very dark (but the tobacco I started with was too). I tried the spinning but it didn't really have any visible effect (maybe because the liquid is so dark). I'm now passing it through the syringe with a coffee filter paper bung in the end... it's dripping through fairly quickly.

 

[tceight]

It's probably much less than 40ml - difficult to tell at the moment as it's in a stainless steel pot. In fact I used 25 grams of tobacco to start with (2 x pouches) as I didn't want the temptation of any tobacco left unsmoked in the house! So I upped the measurement of the other ingredients slightly too.

I'm about to decant it into a plastic juice bottle so I can try your centrifugal cleaning suggestion.

The cloudiness you spoke of, could be one of two things. Particulate or water. Either way, it can be separated at this point. oil on top, particulate and water at the bottom.
I've (surprisingly) not had much trouble with emulsions, and the thin layer that sometimes forms seems beneficial as it tends to trap some impurites.
if it is an emulsion, and you do have trouble getting a good separation,there are some tricks that can help, like warming it up, adding table salt, etc. The centrifuge should work wonders though, as long as your arm doesn't get tired. lol

 

[tceight]

The oil amounts to 30ml. It is very dark (but the tobacco I started with was too). I tried the spinning but it didn't really have any visible effect (maybe because the liquid is so dark). I'm now passing it through the syringe with a coffee filter paper bung in the end... it's dripping through fairly quickly.

patience, it takes a while, but does get it to separate. maybe tie it to the ceiling fan. (just kidding!)
if it's an emulsion, it won't filter well, at least not with coffee filter.

 

[slopes]

tceight - how long should I spin it for? And at what speed? I did it for about 3 minutes, very rapidly.

 

[tceight]

tceight - how long should I spin it for? And at what speed? I did it for about 3 minutes, very rapidly.

I use about a 0.5m string, and at 180 rpm (gentle 3 times per second) that works out to about 18 g's!!
normally spin it for about 5 minutes.
after three minutes there should have been good separation!
when you poured it off, was there no sludge in the bottom?

~~~~ just ran the numbers.. "very rapidly".. say six times a second, works out to 72 g's

 

[slopes]

Yes - there was a small amount of grainy residue stuck around the bottom of the bottle. So it was working.

EDIT: i don't suppose it matters if the spinning is vertical or horizontal?

 

[tceight]

Yes - there was a small amount of grainy residue stuck around the bottom of the bottle. So it was working.

EDIT: i don't suppose it matters if the spinning is vertical or horizontal?

only to math purists.


sounds like you are good to go slopes.
mix up your concentrated citric acid next. If it 'fizzes' when you add it, then you know you didn't get 100% separation and carried over some water in emulsion.

 

[slopes]

only to math purists.


sounds like you are good to go slopes.
mix up your concentrated citric acid next. If it 'fizzes' when you add it, then you know you didn't get 100% separation and carried over some water in emulsion.

When the filtering has finished (it's slowed right down for the last quarter), I will spin the oil as suggested. I will then use a syringe to remove the top 9/10s and discard the residue.

From there on I will follow your process as described...
_____________________________

"4. acidify some distilled water by adding citric acid... Add this at 1/5 the volume of oil you have, shake and let settle for an hour. extract the water and keep it.

5. add equal volume of vg to the oil shake and let settle. extract the VG, and add to the water...

6. Let this settle for a day, and using a syringe carefully extract the bottom portion of the liquid, leaving the surface 'layer' and a good amount of the vg behind. This is to ensure you don't carry any mineral oil over."
_____________________________

 

[kinabaloo]

hi slopes,

when you squeezed the liquid from the tobacco, was there noticeably two layers - the oil and the water? Or pretty much just oil ?

 

[slopes]

kinabaloo - it looked to be pretty much oil coming out.

I'm not sure about quantities in tceight's final part of the process (as quoted in my previous post).

Assuming I have 25ml oil:

1) I add 5ml (1/5) of citric acid (vit c) water to the oil and shake.

2) I extract the settled water (and keep it).

3) I then add an equal amount of VG to the oil (25ml / 25ml) and shake.

4) I syringe off the 25ml settled VG and mix it with the 5ml water.

5) Result: 30ml WTA liquid (remaining oil thrown away).

Of course there will be some losses so the final amount will be less than this. Is the final 30ml vapable - or is it a finished concentrate which requires further mixing down with VG or nic juices?