Big problems in little China

[K-Sound Krew]

If the device's primary use is for deliver a "new drug" then the device can't be commercialized until the "new drug" is approved, even if the device can be used for deliver legal and approved drugs if the PRIMARY use is for a "new drug" the device is in troubles, maybe is too late to deassociate the device as we know it from the drug, I don't know, but for the FDA the PRIMARY use is for deliver a "new drug" at this moment.

Another way is to make it a tobacco product, but then high taxes need to be payed, there are ways to do this, maybe using a reconstituted tobacco membrane to hold the e-liquid instead of the polymer fill they have now in the cartdriges.

One thing is for sure, eventually e-cigarettes will be regulated, the matter is where is the best place for our interests to put them: FDA, ATF or HPCUS.

but isn't the primary use of the device to vaporize PG?

 

[K-Sound Krew]

I have been to many. The one's in my neck of the woods say as little as possible about what they are for. They call them "Water Pipes" minus the Tobacco part. They even have signs on the door saying that they will not "discuss" what they are for. Have you ever gone into a head shop to try and discuss with the staff the uses of a ....? My guess is they would tell you to leave. You could put pencil shavings in it, for all they care, but they will not discuss it with you. That is their legal right, and that is precisely why bongs are still being sold in head shops to this very day. They don't even sell them with instructions for use. The only people that buy them are the people that know what they are for before they even go to the shop.

You get thrown out of the store if you even call it a ....


How does that saying go?
Something about an elephant in the room or something?

 

[Lithium1330]

but isn't the primary use of the device to vaporize PG?

According to the FDA no, the primary use at this moment is for deliver NICOTINE.

 

[TribbleTrouble]

According to the FDA no, the primary use at this moment is for deliver NICOTINE.

We need to change the name, separate them from the liquid, and maybe even change the way they look (Like the new Janty Stick thingy).

 

[TribbleTrouble]

You get thrown out of the store if you even call it a ....


How does that saying go?
Something about an elephant in the room or something?

Exactly! That Elephant is there to make sure that they stick around.

 

[K-Sound Krew]

According to the FDA no, the primary use at this moment is for deliver NICOTINE.

Well isn't this the double standard of what a head shop sells?

This was my point;
is it a .... or a tobacco water pipe?

How can the FDA arrest some for selling paraphenlia and let others sell a device under false pretense?

answer.... they are the FDA (they do what they want)

 

[LaceyUnderall]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ntaining-electronic-cigarette.html#post112948

TB has soaked tobacco in VG and used it in his e-cig. This means that yes, in fact there are other uses for the e-cig which moves them further from the medical device category and more to the vaporizer category.

Tribble - I completely see where you are going with your idea. Separating the eLiquid now does allow them to be vaporizers, and I argue even with the "cigarette" in the name. However, I like mine looking like a cigarette. I'm a smoker

 

[Lithium1330]

Well isn't this the double standard of what a head shop sells?

This was my point;
is it a .... or a tobacco water pipe?

How can the FDA arrest some for selling paraphenlia and let others sell a device under false pretense?

answer.... they are the FDA (they do what they want)

Exactly, they can do whatever they want, at this moment they are not enforcing actions against e-cigarettes, but if they want, they can do it.

One thing that could help is to make this devices massively used, then they may think tweice before enforce anything, but for that, the technology needs to improve the device and the design needs to be more socially acceptable.

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Well isn't this the double standard of what a head shop sells?

This was my point;
is it a .... or a tobacco water pipe?

How can the FDA arrest some for selling paraphenlia and let others sell a device under false pretense?

answer.... they are the FDA (they do what they want)

If you market them carefully from the beginning, the powers that be recognize that and leave you alone. Tommy Chongs company probably didn't (including Tommy Chong's career material). I wish, now, that China never called them "E-Cigarettes" in the first place. That will be the toughest thing to overcome for our "Personal Vaporizers".

 

[K-Sound Krew]

If you market them carefully from the beginning, the powers that be recognize that and leave you alone. Tommy Chongs company probably didn't (including Tommy Chong's career material). I wish, now, that China never called them "E-Cigarettes" in the first place. That will be the toughest thing to overcome for our "Personal Vaporizers".

I disagree; it isn't the cigarette connotation but the nicotine connotation

by definition a cigarette is anything which can be smoked
The main concern is if that thing is illegal or regulated

If customs is siezing ecigs because it's associated with nicotine then it needs to change it's association to the smoking of flavoured PG

 

[OutWest]

IMHO, if it becomes too far seperated from the e-juice, then it runs the risk of being classified as paraphernalia by the DEA. From Bongs Away!: How the crusade against drug paraphernalia punishes controversial speech - Reason Magazine

A 1986 amendment to the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 defines drug paraphernalia as any item “primarily intended or designed for use in manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing, producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled substance.”

Lots of other interesting info at that link

 

[TribbleTrouble]

I disagree; it isn't the cigarette connotation but the nicotine connotation

by definition a cigarette is anything which can be smoked
The main concern is if that thing is illegal or regulated

If customs is siezing ecigs because it's associated with nicotine then it needs to change it's association to the smoking of flavoured PG

The cigarette is synonymous with tobacco, and tobacco is synonymous with Nicotine, regardless of the "official" definition. If they would have called them "Personal Vaporizers" instead of "E-Cigarettes", that connection with tobacco, cigs & smoking could have been avoided.

 

[TribbleTrouble]

IMHO, if it becomes too far seperated from the e-juice, then it runs the risk of being classified as paraphrenalia by the DEA. From Bongs Away!: How the crusade against drug paraphernalia punishes controversial speech - Reason Magazine Lots of other interesting info at that link

Like I said, along with the name change, maybe put "for vaporizing flavored water and PG/VG" next to the name, and leave it at that. The more you say about your product, the more trouble you can get yourself into.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

OutWest - Great link.

I think the most troubling thing about this article are the ...... who think that we all need to follow their "moral" standards. This is the biggest issue with the smoking bans. If the cigarette and booze upsets you, then stay out of the freaking bar. Find your "good book" and curl up with your other fellow non-sinners. Holy ****!

But... it does raise a good point. By not including what it is the e-cig is meant to be used for (the liquid), it does separate it from it's intended use and that is smoking. And smoking nicotine is not illegal.

Everyday I stand firmer that there is a third category that needs to be created, in between tobacco and pharmaceutical. (God I hope my homeopathic idea works.)

 

[LaceyUnderall]

The cigarette is synonymous with tobacco, and tobacco is synonymous with Nicotine, regardless of the "official" definition. If they would have called them "Personal Vaporizers" instead of "E-Cigarettes", that connection with tobacco, cigs & smoking could have been avoided.

And then they would have definitely been an cessation device. You would have to pay the doctor for a visit and then get a prescription, then pay for that prescription. Then, when they were finally available OTC, they would be ****ty, just like the gum and the patch and that NRT puffer that looks like a tampon. No thanks.

 

[K-Sound Krew]

The cigarette is synonymous with tobacco, and tobacco is synonymous with Nicotine, regardless of the "official" definition. If they would have called them "Personal Vaporizers" instead of "E-Cigarettes", that connection with tobacco, cigs & smoking could have been avoided.

What about herbal cigarettes?

Again I prove my point about the FDA picking and choosing

 

[CssReb]

If the cigarette and booze upsets you, then stay out of the freaking bar. Find your "good book" and curl up with your other fellow non-sinners. Holy ****!

Thank you very much

I needed a good laugh

 

[TribbleTrouble]

What about herbal cigarettes?

Again I prove my point about the FDA picking and choosing

Herbal Cigs (except for "The Good Stuff") is a relatively new thing compared to tobacco cigs (with the exception of Clove cigs). My guess is the FDA with come down on those too, eventually.

 

[Jaaxx]

Thank you Cash!

Finally, someone breaking it down for us. From my dealings thus far, I truly believe you have given the most accurate depiction of the situation.

Thanks again for your perspective. I was about to have to pull out the finger for the second time in the same thread and no one wants that!

 

[K-Sound Krew]

Herbal Cigs (except for "The Good Stuff") is a relatively new thing compared to tobacco cigs (with the exception of Clove cigs). My guess is the FDA with come down on those too, eventually.

Noooo
The first time I tried to quit in the 90's a got a pack of herbal cigs
They have been around for atleast 2 decades