Big problems in little China

[Randall Fox]

Trog,

In my 48 years, I have lived in SE Asia for 8, South Asia/ME for 5, Euro/UK for 7, and South America for 3. The rest of the time I lived in the US/Canada. I will state unequivocally that Americans (the people - not the politicians, media, and other elites) are more accepting of people from other cultures than any other nationality in the world.

It may be true that Americans are largely ignorant of other cultures, but I think alot of that is because the vast majority of Americans have never been outside the USA. Remember, the USA is so large and diverse that, for most people, there is no reason to ever leave.

As for "the customer is always right" philosophy, you are correct. That is more prevalent in the USA. I think that is because whatever you need in the USA, there are always plenty of different suppliers. In other countries there are more instances of limited suppliers. If you have a monopoly you don't have to be so attentive to customer service.

Putting sociological culture differences aside, this is a case of American business culture (multiple suppliers always available) meeting emerging market business culture (limited supply of new commodity). Neither side seems to be able to look at it from the perspective of the other.

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Trog,

In my 48 years, I have lived in SE Asia for 8, South Asia/ME for 5, Euro/UK for 7, and South America for 3. The rest of the time I lived in the US/Canada. I will state unequivocally that Americans (the people - not the politicians, media, and other elites) are more accepting of people from other cultures than any other nationality in the world.

It may be true that Americans are largely ignorant of other cultures, but I think alot of that is because the vast majority of Americans have never been outside the USA. Remember, the USA is so large and diverse that, for most people, there is no reason to ever leave.

As for "the customer is always right" philosophy, you are correct. That is more prevalent in the USA. I think that is because whatever you need in the USA, there are always plenty of different suppliers. In other countries there are more instances of limited suppliers. If you have a monopoly you don't have to be so attentive to customer service.

Putting sociological culture differences aside, this is a case of American business culture (multiple suppliers always available) meeting emerging market business culture (limited supply of new commodity). Neither side seems to be able to look at it from the perspective of the other.

I think that is a problem with a lot of retailers and suppliers out there (Not all of them). They have forgotten what it is like to be a customer, as well as forgetting how important a Customer Service Orientation is to keeping a business alive. Without customers (Good, Bad, or US), there is no business!

 

[trog100]

i cant open my mouth without offending someone.. its humour of a kind.. often its not understood as such..

different cultures and countries do have different world views.. i try not to be offended by other world views.. i would preach tolerance not PC correctness in what we say..

i am also fully aware that most SDs we sell go to the US.. next its to the germans (its hard to offend them i dont speak word of the language) then third in line is the UK..

but the SD sells in spite of me.. not because of my skills as a salesman.. they are somewhat lacking... he he

if u have something the world wants they beat a path to your door... if you have just another something to sell the world.. you have to beat a path to their door.. and do your share of ... kissing along the way..

i am lucky i dont have to kiss ...... money might talk but not loudly enough to make me do that..

one thing i do know.. the chinese have the upper hand here.. they have the products that us addicts both want and need.. where e cigs are concerned they also have more customers than products.. they literally are struggling to keep up with the increasing western demand..

so the reality is.. please mr chinese man.. not jump when i say else i will go elsewhere.. there is no elsewhere..

the fact american consumers are used to there alway being an elsewhere might well be changing.. in china there are only so many e cig factories.. be nice to them.. learn their culture..

trog

 

[TribbleTrouble]

one thing i do know.. the chinese have the upper hand here.. they have the products that us addicts both want and need.. where e cigs are concerned they also have more customers than products.. they literally are struggling to keep up with the increasing western demand..

so the reality is.. please mr chinese man.. not jump when i say else i will go elsewhere.. there is no elsewhere..

I, for one, want to be a part of changing that fact. You are right, Trog, the Chinese do have an upper hand on this business. That part pisses me off more than anything else about the E-Cig. Come On, USA, if they can do it (why can't we do it better)! I know our manufacturing power is non-existant now, but damn it, I am sick of "Made in China" imprinted on everything I have. Hell, if Trog can do it, why can't we do it better?

 

[Mace]

I don't see how learning their culture will bring more supplies to the market.

 

[K-Sound Krew]

I don't see how learning their culture will bring more supplies to the market.

It's called pride

 

[TribbleTrouble]

It's called pride

Pride plays a part in almost every culture (Including the Chinese).

 

[Mace]

Since everything is made in China, I don't think the Chinese have any problem doing business with us.

Culture might have a miniscule effect on trade, but money talks.

 

[Venuvious]

I have worked like a nut on a bulk order for the US for the past month
I finally got everything and sent out my order, today I got a full refund of the money and this was the email I got....

Dear

Thanks for your order, we ruturn the PayPal money, as we need to deel with new situation in your country for shipment. We will inform you when everything is clear up.


Many greets
Luna



Can anyone explain this?????

I just ordered a Bulk order for my customers last weekend, and although it will cost me so much I will just about break even, here is the truth as told by my New supplier...

I just received a report from the manufacturer that it is our order is being processed as we speak!
I would like to ask a favor of you since you are in the know…
Could you pass on the word, as people are asking about the shipment and it is slowing me down,
That the bottles are being filled and will be on their way shortly.
You see, I, unlike some companies, do not worry about customs.
Why you ask?
Because (and you may quote me) PAY FOR THE TAXES AND DUTIES required to import eliquid!
The big lie among resellers is that Customs is stopping shipments and holding them are not clearing them
Through the U.S. This is because the companies (Middlemen) that are selling to resellers in the U.S.
Want to make the best profit they can, so they Lie about what is in the shipment!
Unfortunately, that is why it costs me so much, and I will have to raise my prices some after this.
However, my shipments are always going to clear, and I know they are directly sealed at the factory,
Not Filled by a small company in their basement from large containers in an unclean environment!
(Yes, that is done!)
Please see attached Invoice for shipment. This was an original quote for eliquid (With the company & price
Omitted). As you can see, this is not the way to ship a hazardous Liquid!

Anyway, back to work. I appreciate you helping, as I am swamped getting all the invoices out and processed.
But if you can pass on the word that it won’t be much longer I would appreciate it.
I am going to update my page ASAP.

Company removed
PROFORMA INVOICE CONSIGNEE:INVOICE NO :
GOODS: Atomizing Device for cartridge 426 Feight:250.00 TOTAL:250.00 Beneficiary Name: Opening Bank: Bank Address: Address:NUBRE OF PACKAGESPACKAGESAccount Number USD: GROSS WEIGHTKGSSwift Code: NET WEIGHTKGSBank key: Bank Code TOTAL VOLUMEM3
Not atomizing cartridge as stated, but an eLiquid order, which will get stopped at customs for lying if caught!

 

[Mace]

I, for one, want to be a part of changing that fact. You are right, Trog, the Chinese do have an upper hand on this business. That part pisses me off more than anything else about the E-Cig. Come On, USA, if they can do it (why can't we do it better)! I know our manufacturing power is non-existant now, but damn it, I am sick of "Made in China" imprinted on everything I have. Hell, if Trog can do it, why can't we do it better?

Maybe GM can start making e-cigs. They got plenty of idle factories.

Sooner or later the US will run out of money to send to China and we'll have to make our own stuff.

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Venuvious, that makes total sense. Lying to get around taxes is a sure way to lose your stuff. I wonder if all this FDA stuff and the worry about e-cigs getting banned started from cutting corners like that and pissing off the powers that be, instead of the powers that be worrying about safety.

 

[trog100]

I don't see how learning their culture will bring more supplies to the market.

it dosnt... it just make sure u get some of the limitedly supples as opposed to someone else..

Central Trade refusing to ship to the US because of customs problems is an example of this.. this means when US custom aint nice to the chinese the chinese say no shippee and send them good over to us in the UK... he he..

as we all get poorer the chinese are gonna have plentyof spare factory capacity.. it just takes time to open up new e cig ones..

as we can only do it tribble in very small numbers.. if we want to sell SDs in numbers it looks like a trip to china is in order.. shame i cant speak the bloody language... he he

trog

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Maybe GM can start making e-cigs. They got plenty of idle factories.

Sooner or later the US will run out of money to send to China and we'll have to make our own stuff.

Damn Right! Hell, I would be fine with GM, or even Big Tobacco getting in the mix if it means more competition and better service for the customer. This business needs more competition! That will insure that the old saying "The Customer is Always Right" remains true.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

As Posted Elsewhere In ECF ...

sorry ... True and Utter BS ...

he doesn't ship liquid in with it classified correctly, and if he did, he wouldn't see the shipments. plain and simple.

just because the juice is being manufactured doesn't mean it will make it in to the country safely. essentially ... everyone who purchased and is now waiting on liquid, has to wait for it to go through customs, etc .... like 1 big bulk order purchase ...

just my $.02 cents

EDIT: I shall also add ... Every import over $500USD you will pay Duty/Brokerage Fee's on. So, saying he is classifying it as true eLiquid and having to pay duty fee's on is complete bull as well.

The only way I could honestly see, to get eLiquid LEGALLY in to the USA, is if you have a pharmecutical license, in which case, you distribute to those that have prescriptions (or to raw material companies that distribute from there). If you told the USA, you were trying to import an UNREGULATED POISON into the United States ... They would laugh at you and deny or put an indefinite hold on the shipment ...

You see, I, unlike some companies, do not worry about customs.
Why you ask?
Because (and you may quote me) PAY FOR THE TAXES AND DUTIES required to import eLiquid!

Anything with a value over $500USD you will pay taxes and duties on

The big lie among resellers is that Customs is stopping shipments and holding them are not clearing them Through the U.S. This is because the companies (Middlemen) that are selling to resellers in the U.S. Want to make the best profit they can, so they Lie about what is in the shipment!

BullS*** ... And by slamming other suppliers ... I highly suggest you play fair. $20 bucks says you are working with a reseller/China trader as well. I highly, HIGHLY, doubt, being the new supplier you are, that you actually know of the manufacturers of eLiquid in China ... unless you know of the independent labs making the stuff...

Unfortunately, that is why it costs me so much, and I will have to raise my prices some after this.

haha ... What a joke ...

However, my shipments are always going to clear, and I know they are directly sealed at the factory, Not Filled by a small company in their basement from large containers in an unclean environment!
(Yes, that is done!)

And how would you know this? Been to China and seen it? And how can you say for certain every shipment will clear? Its not like importing baby clothes dude.

Please see attached Invoice for shipment. This was an original quote for eLiquid (With the company & price Omitted). As you can see, this is not the way to ship a hazardous Liquid!

Shipping a hazardous liquid is one thing ... SHIPPING A DRUG/POISON without the necessary licenses, is a completely different ballgame dude. Are you registered with the FDA, and do the people buying such liquid have prescriptions to do so?

I would LOVE to see what they classify the actual liquid as being ... "Atomized Device for Cartridge" is not classifying as true and correct ... especially when you say it is.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

Venuvious, that makes total sense. Lying to get around taxes is a sure way to lose your stuff. I wonder if all this FDA stuff and the worry about e-cigs getting banned started from cutting corners like that and pissing off the powers that be, instead of the powers that be worrying about safety.

Tribble ... and this goes out to EVERYONE!

Its not a matter of classifying things correctly. Classifying correctly would have the shipments stopped at customs, no questions asked.

Electronic Cigarettes/Vaporizers/etc... are DRUG DELIVERY DEVICES, thus, the Supplier needs to be registered with the FDA along with the actual equipment itself being registered.

Classifying liquid as what it essentially is (Liquid Nicotine/PG/Flavoring/etc...) will than be stopped due to it being classified as a "New Drug" We are talking about liquid POISON (and yes, I say this alot because people don't seem to understand what nicotine is) being Suspended in a liquid agent (PG) and thus being used to go in to someone's system.

Plain and Simple ... If they were classified 100% True and Honest, ecigs would NOT be on the market. Calling them electronic vaporizers is one thing ... however, you are still not classifying them as what they actually are ....

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Whoa, I think this thread is about to get good!

 

[CaSHMeRe]

and it damn well should be tribble

too much misinformation and lies get spread around. CHINA lies people ... They charge you more so they can ship via DHL under a "Special Liquid" type shipment .... its all bogus guys ...

mind you, this is coming from someone who has roughly shipped .... 30,000 - 40,000 bottles of liquid in 7 months and continue to do so weekly ...

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Tribble ... and this goes out to EVERYONE!

Its not a matter of classifying things correctly. Classifying correctly would have the shipments stopped at customs, no questions asked.

Electronic Cigarettes/Vaporizers/etc... are DRUG DELIVERY DEVICES, thus, the Supplier needs to be registered with the FDA along with the actual equipment itself being registered.

Classifying liquid as what it essentially is (Liquid Nicotine/PG/Flavoring/etc...) will than be stopped due to it being classified as a "New Drug" We are talking about liquid POISON (and yes, I say this alot because people don't seem to understand what nicotine is) being Suspended in a liquid agent (PG) and thus being used to go in to someone's system.

Plain and Simple ... If they were classified 100% True and Honest, ecigs would NOT be on the market. Calling them electronic vaporizers is one thing ... however, you are still not classifying them as what they actually are ....

Listen, Steve, I know that you know way more about this than I do. This place is where I come to learn about this new & wonderful device that I love so much. That is why I am here in this forum, to get my education from knowledgable people like you. Give us more!!!

 

[trog100]

a little story about UK "Customs and Excise"..

the other day my postie lady delivered me some parcels.. all from china.. all covered in chinese unreadable gobbe-de-...... pretty normal.. no customs problems ever..

she also dropped a note thru my door saying cant deliver customs duty to pay... £24 quid..

so i drive off down to the sorting office.. curious what this hit by customs parcel is.. and why..

it turns out to be an SD sent back for repair.. from the US.. not an import and not even liable for duty...

it was clearly labeled.. very clearly.. no chinese unreadable stuff.. it said "empty flashlight casing" value $150 dollars..it cost about $5 to post... and about $40 dollars for me to get my hands on it...

this is what happens when someone tries to be honest.. i think it was a fluke but now advise customers to say...preferably in unreadable hand writing value five dollars.... he he he

we have lousy hand writing anyways.. not quite chinese but nearly as bad.. we never have customs problems with the SDs we ship..

trog

 

[CaSHMeRe]

Listen, Steve, I know that you know way more about this than I do. This place is where I come to learn about this new & wonderful device that I love so much. That is why I am here in this forum, to get my education from knowledgable people like you. Give us more!!!

Haha ... What more do you want Tribble?

All I see is a supplier being shafted by the Country on the other side of the Pacific Ocean, who now says he must *charge more* because of it ...

I just get tired of all the supplier bull ... be real from the get go.

#1 reason i don't release product, do backorders, or preorders until stock is 100% in my hands ... until then, its anyone's game ...

I prefer and like suppliers that take the *real* approach on things.... and don't sugar coat s*** ... IE: Katy, Lacey, Jane, VaporGuys (sorry don't know your real name), etc...