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Big tobacco vape

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by Mark M, Dec 31, 2018.

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  1. Mark M

    Mark M Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2018
    London UK
    What upsets me is that the big tobacco companies fought for so long in court saying smoking is safe, years after we all knew it wasn't, and they know they have been profiting from the killing of millions and millions for decades, and still do.

    They even fought the new European packaging laws showing the reality of smoking, which are proving to be effective.

    They don't give a .... about you and me dying from their products., this again proved it!!

    Then, when vaping came out, they posted and funded properganda rubbish everywhere, in "scientist say" type studdies saying "vapping is dalangerous!! " as they could see their empire slipping.. NOW these ........s are buying up niche vaping products and companies to try and cash in by diversifying their offering and take over the market.

    I for one do not feel they have ANY right to profit from the vapping industry, only evil can run and live happily at the heart of a company that is "OK" to profit from death, as they still do, still fighting tooth and claw to keep their "happy branding" on products they know kill.

    There is no social conscience there at all. Smoking being the biggest cause of death in the world through disease. I also feel its sad that some vaping brands are selling up to them, I'm sure not all will.

    My suggestion is to boycote the brands now sold to big tobacco or developed by big tobacco like Vype.

    Here are the one's that sold:

    1 blue-e cigs - BIG in UK Shops

    2 dragonite

    And developed in house by big tobacco:

    3 MarkTen

    4. Vuse

    5. massive in the UK - VYPE

    6. Juul pod system is also owbed by big tobacco!

    "British American Tobacco has become the first tobacco company to launch an electronic cigarette in the UK, raising fears that it could eventually boost its profits with public money should the NHS begin prescribing ecigarettes as a smoking-cessation tool"

    And they don't just want to play, they want to own it and close vape shops etc forcing them out of business and have us all on their products and dictate market price to be akin to smoking!

    Great article on this here:
    Big Tobacco’s War on Vaping | National Review

    In the UK they even tried to do a deal to give NHS staff free heat not burn products for PR etc I guess and they said no obviously.

    I'm worried how the whole vapping industry is silently being changed and manipulated by big tobacco.

    Some great vape shops in the UK refuse to sells big tobacco products as its ethically wrong, and also I personally think it would be a trojen horse to their business!!

    100 million people have died of smoking in the 20th century.

    Aprox 6 MILLION people died from cigarettes in 2018

    600,000.00 were due to second hand smoke.

    Worldwide 14 thousand people died today, because of smoking.

    14,000 people are gone today, left the earth early, and their families are crying and in emotional agony. And its all going to happen again tomorow.

    These evil firms have no right to lay claim to the industry providing the cure to their evil!

    So there you go, rant over, it just does not feel right these ........s that have been, and are still happy, to kill us, as they profit directly by the death of millions linked dirctly to their products, now using that blood marked money to cash in on E cigarettes.
    For all these reasons I feel that any vape product purchassed from a big tobacco company can not in anyone's mind be classed as an "ethically sourced product."

    OK rant over

    Much love, Mark x
     
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  2. plumeguy

    plumeguy Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Millions of moms and dads will be killed by State and Federal governments shutting
    down vaping. Is this public health? Looks more like genocide to me.

    If they gave 2 monkeys about teen health they would spend some of the $70 billion dollars
    they receive each year from tobacco sales to enforce existing age restrictions.
     
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  3. chellie

    chellie Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 24, 2014
    USA
    It's all about the almighty dollar/euro/currency.

    You are right - they (BT) were against it and fought vigorously to curtail it. When they realized that would not happen they then changed their tune.

    Big Tobacco in the US with all their power put the roll your own cigarette industry out of business but they could not do it with vaping.

    And now PMI (Phillip Morris Int'l) has the IQOS product that they cannot yet get approved in the US ---The IQOS was designed to stand for "I Quit Original Smoking" and I think they thought it would instantly be successful. It is available internationally but not in the US. As usual, they lie and now say IQOS it does not stand for anything. Yeah - someone just said - hey I like these initials so lets name out product IQOS --what bull.

    And now PMI who was so outspoken against the industry now says "We’re dedicated to doing something very dramatic – replacing cigarettes with the smoke-free products that we’re developing and selling."

    It is all about money!
     
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  4. Pleasant_Bad

    Pleasant_Bad Senior Member

    Jul 3, 2018
    United Kingdom
    they use substitution of concepts calling heat-not-burn devices "electronic cigarettes". and mislead people implanting the idea it's the same technology in their brains. this way, any study showing positive results of vaping will be associated and with heat-not-burn tobacco and vice verso: studies showing that not burning tobacco still has vicious elements will be understood like "e-cigs are bad". Sad...
     
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  5. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hunterwasser
    this
     
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  6. Canadian_Vaper

    Canadian_Vaper Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 30, 2015
    ON. Canada
    I won't support big tobacco until they stop selling cigarettes, if they were today completely stop selling cigarettes and switch solely to selling vapor products I might consider trying their products but for now... a big NOPE.

    What really irks me about their products is most don't have a defined path to reduce nicotine consumption EG: 50mg, 40mg, 30mg, 25mg, 20mg, 15mg, 10mg, 7.5mg, 6mg 4.5mg, 3mg, 1.5mg, 0.75mg 0mg, they want to keep people addicted with no way out. They had no real means of doing this with tobacco outside of GMO but with vaping there is the possibility to do this.
     
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  7. Mark M

    Mark M Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2018
    London UK
    Hi, if they stopped across the board tomorrow, Globally on moral grounds, and a heart felt appology and financial care for those that are dying or needing treatment from the horrendous illnesses they are suffering from their pusher man product, and compensations for those that have lost loved ones. But no it won't mean ANYTHING if they only stop when they have too, and they trust me they won't until they absolutely have to and it will be based on commercial reasons, not ANY care.
    Butt from my point of view evil does not deserve a cut of anything, and they are evil. Would you trust them to mix your vape juice?? You know what crap poisons and toxins they each put in cigarettes to make their brands more addictive, toxins known to make the damage worse. What do you think they will do with vape juice to make it more addictive? They never deserve a cut
     
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  8. marianna

    marianna Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 30, 2012
    Netherlands
    Addictive? Nicotine is as much addictive as cafein. So what?!
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  9. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    I find this to be drastically untrue. If I go without caffeine all I get is a headache for a day or two. With nicotine the effects are much more severe. Not as bad as cigarettes though. I also vape a fairly large amount of nicotine though. Ecigs are much easier to gradually lower the dosage on than cigarettes and they lack the chemicals that assist nicotine in being addictive. The result is it’s generally a lot easier to quit entirely after you’ve been vaping only for some time.
     
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  10. VapourFlavour

    VapourFlavour Moved On

    Oct 16, 2018
    Ontario, Canada
    It's funny you mention the caffeine headache. A few days ago I started cutting back on my caffeine intake because I think I've become more sensitive to it. I've tried going from 5 - 6 cups throughout the day to 2 in the morning. I have had a terrible headache in the late afternoon for the last 2 days.
     
  11. marianna

    marianna Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 30, 2012
    Netherlands
    @bombastinator
    Well, I am vaping for more than 10 years now. At first I have lowered the nicotine till zero in my DIY VG-liquid, completely PG-free, cause I have a PG-allergy, but then I had no kind of throat hit whatsoever, so, I started to use nicotine again (but already many years without diketones)
    And I haven't got the intension to ever stop vaping.
     
  12. Canadian_Vaper

    Canadian_Vaper Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 30, 2015
    ON. Canada
    They would all have to stop simultaneously for it to work out as another will just fill the void and the blame will shift. I get it, I ....ing hate big tobacco, I literally almost died from smoking like quite literally was a few minutes away from death due to an obstruction caused by smoking way more than I should have which was the moment I decided to give vaping a real shot.

    Realistically they will never be able to make up for all the damage they have caused but at this point the absolute best thing they could do is to stop selling the death sticks altogether, just pull out and even stay away from vaping, I'm sure they have enough money to do so.
     
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  13. Brewdawg1181

    Brewdawg1181 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 30, 2017
    Metro ATL
    You can boycott them today, but I'm afraid you'll have some decisions to make down the road. If you don't want to give BT your money, you'd better start stocking up fairly soon. The time will come when BT (or other soulless entities without conscience) will own most of this industry. And governments, ever seeking new sources of revenue, under the guise of protecting the public, will regulate and tax the industry heavily. As we saw in the proposed (yet postponed) US Deeming Regulations, the ante to play in the game and meet regs won't be affordable by smaller companies. We don't know how soon this will happen, but it's almost a certainty that vaping in even 5 years won't come close to resembling what most do today. And it's unlikely to include any local mom & pop companies.
     
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  14. Mark M

    Mark M Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2018
    London UK
    I hear you mate, the thing is, we are "the market" and we can dictate it to some degree so I think we should campaign now.
     
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  15. United States

    United States Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 17, 2018
    RVA
    Not trying to defend big tobacco here but..

    Not a single person has ever been forced to begin smoking. It has been well known for over 50 years that smoking is addictive. So like those who fear the mighty drug cartels, we have no one to blame but ourselves. We are the ones who buy the stuff. Afterall we are the ones who chose to start smoking.

    Back in world war 2 the US government gave out cigarettes with food and candy. So naturally there were a lot of veterans who returned home with bad teeth and tobacco addictions. But there came a time when Americans realized smoking is stupid. Drugs are stupid.

    My pop passed away from smoking induced illnesses. He never once blamed the tobacco companies for the choices he made.

    So many will disgree with this post, I get that. Yet did anybody hold a gun to your head and force you to smoke that first cigarette? The second? The 25th? Did you not realize that inhaling smoke from a cigarette makes about as much sense as standing over a camp fire and taking deep breaths?

    It's very unfortunate that they have introduced things to keep us hooked. Down right unethical. Even worse is government agencies who know this but feed off the tax revenues that cigarettes generate.

    In about 1977 my high school PE teacher saw I had a pack of cigarettes in my shirt pocket two days after I started smoking. He said "don't you know those things will hurt you?" I said "yup"....

    Nuf said.
     
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  16. Mark M

    Mark M Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2018
    London UK
    I think it's good you voiced your opinion, it's good to understand everyone's view even if I don't always agree.
     
  17. ThrashNeon

    ThrashNeon Senior Member ECF Veteran

    May 12, 2009
    I agree with your post 100%.

    I can also see how BT (and Big Pharma!!) have a vested interest in colluding with the government (via VERY powerful lobbying) to vilify vaping, and of course, the federal and state gov'ts have a HUGE vested interest in the tobacco tax cash cow.
     
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  18. United States

    United States Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 17, 2018
    RVA
    Oh, I had a colleague ask if I wanted to invest in (OTHER STUFF) stock as you can double your money quickly. I said "no".
    He asked how come. My reply was that as a recovered drug addict I cannot in good conscience make a profit from something I know is harmful. I also ensure that $0 of my 401k is tied up in tobacco. But at the same time I do not hold any malice against those who do, nor the companies that provide them. What I do get stewed about is the politician who looks at me with a straight face and says "the tax revenue is to help the children"...
     
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  19. Brewdawg1181

    Brewdawg1181 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 30, 2017
    Metro ATL
    I agree with almost all this. A couple of notes, though. There are some on ECF that likely started smoking before the 1964 report. Maybe even chose their brand because their doctor recommended it:
    upload_2018-12-31_13-39-8.png upload_2018-12-31_14-3-31.png
    I don't think BT is inherently evil just because they sell a product that kills...even after they definitively found that out. It would be naive to think a company was going to say - "hey, we saw the Surgeon General's report. Let's shut down the company." Which would leave it to the other companies to continue. It has always been, and remains a legal product, and those running the company are bound to their shareholders. That said, I could never work for them to advance their goals.

    Many, including me, would have a hard time sleeping at night, knowing that the real evil came when they lied and covered evidence, to continue selling the product, and even began introducing even more toxic chemicals to ensure an increased base of addicted customers. I wouldn't/couldn't do anything to support that - at least not beyond my continued purchase for my own addiction. Typing this, it actually makes me wonder who they recruit these days, and how they have the conscience to begin working for BT. I mean - how many companies out there are there, where the product has no redeeming value whatsoever, and is known only to enslave and kill people?

    So yes - I do think there are elements of evil in the industry, and will never do anything to support them. Yet, I started in 1971-2, after it was known that it definitely was not good for you. And I never blamed them for making me smoke, or lacking the fortitude to quit.
     
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  20. Mark M

    Mark M Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2018
    London UK
    Thanks very much and yes its really not good, and it could literally make vaping less effective if they own all the devices etc hope that we as the consumer can have a say because I think we can effect change these days.
     
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