Bill would ban sale of flavored e-cigarettes

[Painter_]

Here is a follow up on Reason.com about this. I saw this as a favorable writeup.

http:// reason.com /blog/2014/10/07/nyc-councilman-wants-to-ban-flavored-e-c#comment

 

[Stosh]

I still don't understand how a government as onerous as New York City's can continue to make itself yet more onerous and still withstand constitutional scrutiny.

Every time you think so, they will surprise you....New York Appeals Court To Weigh Giving Legal Rights To Chimps

 

[Anjaffm]

But... but... how about flavored condoms? Are they not marketed to kids to entice them to a lifetime of promiscuity?
Oh the horror....

/edit:
a recent report by ASH UK has shown that uptake of e-cigs among non-smoking teenagers is negligible. Why not tweet that?

1. non-smoking teenagers do not take up ecigs
http://www.ash.org.uk/:new-survey-finds-regular-use-of-electronic-cigarettes-by-children-still-rare

2. adults like sweet flavors in their ecigs
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsu...it-smoking-prefer-allegedly-juvenile-flavors/

Now.. where is that report that the smoking rate is currently rising in NYC again? Which may have a connection with the ban on vaping in public places? (I do not have the link here)
........
/edit: interesting in this respect:
Alarmed at Increase in Smoking, New York Regulators Resist a Much Safer Alternative
http://reason.com/blog/2014/09/16/alarmed-at-increase-in-smoking-new-york

"Instead of supporting their use to help people quit smoking," notes Jeff Stier of the National Center for Public Policy Research, "the New York City public health establishment spends resources demonizing e-cigarettes and making them less appealing to potential switchers."

..............

And now they are trying to kill the flavors. Kill flavors and you kill smokers.

- And I wonder just how much money NY is to get from the MSA. Remember: MSA payments are decreasing because fewer and fewer tobacco cigarettes are being purchased. Does that councilman own tobacco bonds by any chance?

 

[DaveP]

They are legalizing the green stuff in many states, but want to do away with vaping, the thing that gets people off cigarettes? Please tell me that government isn't going nuts!

 

[Rlrick]

Yes and they say we are the ones addicted to nicotine. Sounds like they need some of their own cessation programs to get off of big tobacco's and big pharmacies money. Tell us they aren't addicted to the money flow.

 

[DrMA]

Mike Siegel posted about this: http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2014/10/new-york-city-council-considering-ban.html?m=1

Interesting disclosure of competing interests at the end of the post...

 

[Placebo Effect]

The New York City Council - File #: Int 0488-2014

§ 17-715 Sale of flavored tobacco products and flavored electronic cigarettes prohibited. a. It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or offer for sale, or to possess with intent to sell or offer for sale, any flavored tobacco product or flavored electronic cigarette except in a tobacco bar.
b. There shall be a presumption that a retail dealer in possession of four or more flavored tobacco products, which shall include individual tobacco products or electronic cigarettes, packages of tobacco products or electronic cigarettes, or any combination thereof, possesses such tobacco products or electronic cigarettes with intent to sell or offer for sale.


Any Flavor. I wonder how "tobacco bar" is defined?

"Tobacco bars" are defined by the NYC Smoke Free Air law. These are essentially cigar bars that existed prior to the enactment of the Smoke Free Air law. You cannot open a new tobacco bar in NYC.

The reason why the law allows "tobacco bars" to sell them is because when NYC banned flavored cigars, smokeless, snus, etc., back in 2009, they permitted sales of these products only in "tobacco bars."

By putting e-cigarettes into the law, it means that the only place e-cigarette users will be able to purchase flavored smoke-free e-cigarette liquids will be ... a smoky bar.

 

[Jake6731]

Doctor Farsalinos has a response as well: https://www.scribd.com/doc/24242775...antinides-From-Dr-Konstantinos-Farsalinos-M-D

 

[AndriaD]

Doctor Farsalinos has a response as well: https://www.scribd.com/doc/24242775...antinides-From-Dr-Konstantinos-Farsalinos-M-D

Brilliant as usual for Dr. Farsolinos. Too bad the idiot he addressed it to probably won't read it, and even if he did, wouldn't understand it.

Andria

 

[Rlrick]

We now have heard from one of the top scientist trying to reason with these people. It won't work because if they were really concerned about youth smoking and being addicted they would have already banned combustible cigarettes. All these people are interested in is the big dollars that they stand to lose in lost sales and by their TMSA bonds going into default. The top big states are New york, New Jersey, California, Minnesota, Wisconsin and many more. Watch you will see the ones starting to cry the loudest that start trying to ban things first.They made their bed now let them lie in it that's all I have to say.

 

[AndriaD]

We now have heard from one of the top scientist trying to reason with these people. It won't work because if they were really concerned about youth smoking and being addicted they would have already banned combustible cigarettes. All these people are interested in is the big dollars that they stand to lose in lost sales and by their TMSA bonds going into default. The top big states are New york, New Jersey, California, Minnesota, Wisconsin and many more. Watch you will see the ones starting to cry the loudest that start trying to ban things first.They made their bed now let them lie in it that's all I have to say.

I would agree, except that THEY made the bed which now they want VAPERS to lie in!

Andria

 

[robvanhooren]

so, I'm curious.

I've recently seen it summed up nicely: "I'll never smoke another cigarette again, unless my government forces me to."

let's say the worst comes to pass, and Joe Vaper who had quit smoking for many years (as soon as vaping came on the market) goes back to analogs, having no other option.

then he dies of lung cancer.

repeat, nationwide, thousands of times.

exactly how many blackmarket-vaping lawyers will be standing in line to run with the wrongful-death class-action lawsuit against the state and its actors?

heck, line 'em up at ICC too, for genocide.

hmmm.

*sigh*

 

[AndriaD]

so, I'm curious.

I've recently seen it summed up nicely: "I'll never smoke another cigarette again, unless my government forces me to."

let's say the worst comes to pass, and Joe Vaper who had quit smoking for many years (as soon as vaping came on the market) goes back to analogs, having no other option.

then he dies of lung cancer.

repeat, nationwide, thousands of times.

exactly how many blackmarket-vaping lawyers will be standing in line to run with the wrongful-death class-action lawsuit against the state and its actors?

heck, line 'em up at ICC too, for genocide.

hmmm.

*sigh*

Except we might be talking about MILLIONS of times...

Andria

 

[Nate760]

let's say the worst comes to pass, and Joe Vaper who had quit smoking for many years (as soon as vaping came on the market) goes back to analogs, having no other option.

then he dies of lung cancer.

repeat, nationwide, thousands of times.

exactly how many blackmarket-vaping lawyers will be standing in line to run with the wrongful-death class-action lawsuit against the state and its actors?

It would be impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the cancer was attributable to the renewal of the smoking habit, as opposed to the many years of smoking that were done previously.

 

[Stosh]

The NYC government is the poster child for the nanny state. They have seen fit to regulate (to save you from yourself) trans fats, salt, sugar, and are working on large sodas. To ban flavors in e-cigarettes is a slam dunk for this bunch, and let the unintended consequences fall where they may. Sad to say common sense has left the city.

 

[DrMA]

Except we might be talking about MILLIONS of times...

Andria

According to recent estimates there are currently around 1.24 billion smokers worldwide...

 

[AndriaD]

According to recent estimates there are currently around 1.24 billion smokers worldwide...

So if half of them die of lung cancer (or COPD)... that's 610 million deaths. If half of them might not have succumbed because of staying OFF smoking thanks to e-cigs, then that's 305 million deaths. And if you go ahead and figure in that the ANTZ have been wildly exaggerating (if not outright lying!) about the number of those deaths being related to smoking, then we're still talking over 150 million deaths that could be avoided if the stupid gov't would leave vaping alone. Which doesn't seem outrageous to me; I've always thought the damage from smoking is cumulative, just because it generally takes so long for cancer or COPD to develop. It's like, you can smoke for years, and if you quit, you might never reach the point where the genetic code is so damaged that it leads to cancerous conditions. But if you continue... well, one day there's so much damage that the cells can't fix themselves anymore.

Andria

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

Ran across this yesterday and it may be the reason that former smokers chance of lung cancer doesn't approach that of a never smoker until 20 years after quitting.

Lung cancer can lie dormant for over 20 years - Medical News Today

 

[robvanhooren]

true enough.

they say Steve Jobs' pancreatic cancer initially manifested when he was in his mid-20's, but never showed up "enough to kill him" until he was just past his mid-50's.

it had been subtly metastatizing/mutating his cellular DNA for about 30 years.

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2011nl/nov/jobs.htm

 

[AndriaD]

I see that that cancer link was to a site that's got that ridiculous 'e-cigs don't help cancer patients quit' pseudo-study linked. So it's kinda hard to take anything else they post with any seriousness. Which is exactly how the CDC and WHO are shooting themselves in the foot. I know I'll find it very difficult to believe ANYTHING they have to say on any topic.

Andria