blood in saliva..

[TropicalBob]

As I understand it, harmine is not about hit. Nicotine is sent to the brain via the blood steam where it tells the brain to produce dopamine and seratonin. Those are our "feel good" chemicals. Other things, like candy, can kick off "pleasure chemical" release as well. Harmine apparently slows down the breakdown of these pleasure chemicals. I think of it as an enhancer.

But there are many interaction cautions, when used with other drugs, etc.

Changing the PH of our liquid would be safer and easier than attempting to add a measured amount of harmine. The "hit" could be made stronger (I don't want that) by other, safe methods.

 

[KentSP]

Hi Tropical Bob sorry have not seen the report but you can go ahead and see what the Doc has to say about it. I was thinking if Harmine was in a pill form and you could get it prescribed then maybe no need to put it in the liquid. A doctor may well know the safest alternative that does the same job and is already available. I saw somewhere Harmine is being researched as an anti dep but being a natural substance that can't be patented I don't think much will come of the research. A good example is the citisine plant which showed great results for quitting smoking that in order to patent Phizer re-engineered the molecules to make chantix, another example is the ibogaine plant used to quit heroine and alcohol showing over 80% success rate also not receiving much attention from the big names.

 

[Somoney]

Harmine (aka Harmala alkaloids) while generally legal, is often found in articles and testimonials for increasing the effects of hallucinogenic dugs and substances. It's an MAOI which stops or slows the bodies ability to break down certain chemicals, protenes, etc. While it increases the potency of certain substances, I've read on EROWID.ORG where normally benign chemical prescriptions turn into a deadly cocktails that the body is unable to deal with.
I'm not a doctor but IMO any substance posted in the erowid.org experience vaults should be cautioned against.

 

[chips]

I absolutely agree that the missing factor in all the stop smoking methods, is that they do not allow for a gradual decrease in harmine, a powerful MAOI anti depressant, discontinuation effects including, anxiety, insomnia, agitation, vivid dreams, etc.

However there is a way you can get harmine without going on antidepressants or taking a pill, as coffee also contains harmine. Strong coffee, plus nicotine, will give you that similar relaxation that a cigarette does. Nicotine alone will not do it. Then if you want to stop being reliant on all these chemicals a gradual reduction in dose is easiest, so you gradually cut down the nicotine, gradually cut down the harmine (by regulating coffee intake) and making that gradual transition, you can then happily exist without chemical dependencies.

I wish that the companies who are creating products for quitting smoking, would acknowledge that harmine, not just nicotine, plays a massive role in smokers dependency, that way they may actually come up with a quitting aid that was gentle on people.

 

[katink]

There is also mention from knowledgeable people that what misses may mainly be the CO2, that is taking away from the oxygen to the brains (depriving the brain from oxygen, while giving it nicotine at the same time, would account for 'the missing link' (or at least one of them) between e-smoking and real smoking).

I think this should be easily verifiable, really... let an e-smoker breathe into (and out of) a pastic bag for a bit; then take a big puff of e-smoke; and return to the bag-breathing for a bit more.
What do you think, isn't that a real easy (and safe) experiment that should actualy acknowledge this idea, or rule it out? (Should be done by someone really missing the cig-smoking though, I think, to make it into a valuable piece of info).

 

[sherid]

Zyban is the same as the anti-depressant Wellbutrin. IMO anti-depressants are serious problem drugs, perhaps as dangerous as smoking. I say that because of my own experience with the drug, Effexor. When I took Effexor, it was great for the anxiety and depression I was experiencing. It remained great until I decided I did not want to take it for the rest of my life and tried first tapering off then just stopping it. WOW, what a nightmarish experience that was: brain zaps, unrelenting insominia, anxiety off the wall, dark depression, etc. It took me over 6 wks of this horrid existence to get it out of my system, but I stuck it out. Most disturbing though is that there are subtle changes to my thinking process and my emotions that seem permanently altered two years later. I am further bothered by numerous reports, including those about school shooters, who were on anti depressants and then stopped. I believe that anti depressants serve a purpose in extreme cases of depression, but they should not be handed out like candy to anyone who is feeling a bit sad. Serving them up to huge populations of smokers trying to quit is also frightening.

 

[TropicalBob]

I wish that the companies who are creating products for quitting smoking, would acknowledge that harmine, not just nicotine, plays a massive role in smokers dependency, that way they may actually come up with a quitting aid that was gentle on people.

I think that's an accurate summation, CHIPS. And I've read elsewhere that it is not CO2. The more I read, the more convinced I become that harmine is the missing link.

P.S. Forum isn't working right today! Editing is difficult.

 

[Danny]

I have also noticed blood in my saliva. Actually, I can taste a hint of it in my mouth. It may be my gums bleeding... I never had this problem before. I started e-smoking about two weeks ago and for probably the past week I have started to notice a faint bloody taste in my mouth and have rarely seen a tint of pink-ish in my saliva. I don't know if it's my gums, lungs, nose or what... but something is bleeding. I am going to see a doctor in a few weeks and I'll speak to him about this. If he has anything to say about it I will post it here.

I'm thinking it's possible that this could be a side effect from e-smoking or it could have just happened around the same time by coincidence.

I also haven't smoked tobacco since a couple days after I started e-smoking.

 

[alltah]

This may be of interest, I have given up smoking a few times in the last 10 years and each & every time after a couple of weeks or so i have suffered with bleeding gums, the same thing happened after a couple of weeks with the e cig and after a five day course with a decent mouthwash it seems to have cleared up. I have been using a daily mouthwash (without Acholol) and the problem has gone away.

 

[lynchite]

Danny,

Please can you post your experience with this, if it has reoccurred and what the doc says? This is becomming something of an obsession for me, I worry everytime I brush my teeth incase there is blood in my saliva, I even dream about it sometimes!!

I do have a condition though called globus pharingus which is the tightening of the muscular wall between your food passage and lungs, it makes it feel like you have a lump in your throat. Before it was diagnosed I was seriously worried that it was a cancer on my larynx. It comes and goes now but I always have this fear associated with it.

E-smoking does seem to improve it but it's not cured it.

 

[Danny]

Yes I will post the results as soon as I can. My appointment is on Feb 10th. I haven't been noticing the bloody taste as much recently.

 

[Madisavapor]

Yes. I have experienced the bloody saliva too.
It came out together with thick phlegm (eeuucchh) first thing in the morning.
The night before, I felt throat discomfort and felt like something was in my throat.
I felt it especially on the left side when I did a swallowing motion (sorry don't know how to describe this action in words).
After the bloody experience, I felt throat discomfort, coughed a lot but could not cough out any phlegm although I felt it there.
Later in the day I was fine.

Until now, I will get the sore throat whenever the weather is cold (including tonight. Its 2 degrees out there).

I DO think this is related to vaping, PLUS virus (phlegm definitely means virus). NOT vaping alone.

I would recommend lots of water or make yourself a nice cup of warm lemon and honey drink or lozenges.
Anything you would do to treat flu, or cold, or fever would surely help.

Finally, water. All vapers need lots and lots of it

 

[Danny]

Ok I saw my doctor and he told me that the bloody taste was most likely from the e-cig. He had never heard of it being a side effect of quitting smoking. Keep in mind though that my doctor had never heard of e-cigs before. He told me that the ingredients sounded pretty harmless and he was interested in them.

He checked my throat and said it looked a little agitated but nothing that looked serious. This could be because in the past 5 days I have smoked about 3 clove cigarettes. I had been smoke free for a month but last weekend my wife left me and filed for divorce so she could run off with some ......., so I couldn't help myself (sorry for shoving my personal problems in here but I felt like ranting ).

I will tell you that I have been using mouthwash and drinking lots of liquid and the bloody taste is pretty much nonexistant now. I'd suggest just taking extra care of your teeth and gums and see if it makes the taste go away. I hope it helps.

 

[TropicalBob]

Ouch. This reminds me of that line in "Airplane": "Picked a bad day to ...."

Seriously, if you go back to cigs for awhile, it would be understandable. They are very good at correcting any brain chemical imbalance. And you're suffering shock and anger now. Bad chemicals result.

When it's your time to quit smoking, you will.

 

[lorraineg57]

Late to this thread obviously but just wondering if either had ever pinpointed the culprit....?

Danny said his doc said it probably IS from e-cigs?

 

[snowpig]

Don't know if this is what happened with the OP, but I can add my experience -- as some others have mentioned, my dental hygienist said stopping smoking almost always initially causes more bleeding from the gums. So that condition is not specifically caused by vaping.

She noted that quitting smoking allows for improved blood circulation and oxygen flow in the gums, thus allowing them to bleed easier for a while. This is a temporary condition.

The hygienist also said that my gum recession had stopped, and should soon begin to show improvement.

She had my dentist write me a prescription for Peridex mouthwash and that is helping to reduce the gum bleeding very well.

Steve

 

[edlogic]

I think I may have found one reason regarding the spike from smoking.
Under the heading CNS on the Nicotine article on wikipedia I found some information.

Basically it says Nicotine increases dopamine and other neuron transmitter levels in the brain and Harmine(which is only produced from burning tobacco) slows the rate down which the brain can break down dopamine, so in effect I'd say Harmine which is present in smoked tobacco amplifies the effects of nicotine.

i wonder if that has anything to do with the urgent desire or the desperation feeling that i used to have with analogs - after a meal - after waking up - or any time that i went without an analog for more than an hour

i find that with e-cigs ( has only been 4 days smoke free ) i do not have or get that urgent or desperate feeling - i feel calm and my attitude is - i can wait a while with no problem before i get to my vapomatic device

like when i first get out of bed - i used to have to smoke first thing - now i can relax and wait to start vaping several minutes later without a problem

seems so weird to me

 

[DaMulta]

Don't know if this is what happened with the OP, but I can add my experience -- as some others have mentioned, my dental hygienist said stopping smoking almost always initially causes more bleeding from the gums. So that condition is not specifically caused by vaping.

She noted that quitting smoking allows for improved blood circulation and oxygen flow in the gums, thus allowing them to bleed easier for a while. This is a temporary condition.

The hygienist also said that my gum recession had stopped, and should soon begin to show improvement.

She had my dentist write me a prescription for Peridex mouthwash and that is helping to reduce the gum bleeding very well.

Steve

I've been vapping for about a month and a half, and for the last week I have had the bleeding gums....Now it's starting to clear up, from brushing them more/use of mouth wash, and using hydrogen peroxide....

I know that I get it when I vape a lot without drinking; I have noticed that part of it. So I drink a lot when I'm vapping, but my problem is that I vape all the time....

Now I smoked heavy/ pack to 3 packs a day for 15 years, and never stopping for a single day(I quit on day 1 with E-Cig). I also smoked a ton of pot during that time(which I have given up on too).


I think I'm going to go with snowpig post, and I really think that's what is going on.

 

[foghorn]

Ive experienced the same thing. In my case i have GERD, (acid reflux) that can cause the blood in mucus. You can get silent GERD when you're aasleep. You'll feel it in the morning as the acid travels up your esophagus at night without you realizing it. Also the eliquid could be drying out your sinuses. It could be either but check with your doctor.

 

[paladinx]

not sure if anyone suggested this, but sometimes in the winter, when I have the heat on , i wake up with a small bloody nose. and i never get bloody noses. But it is because the dry hair drys out the small blood vessels. I hear time and again PG drys out the throat and nose. This could cause the problem to me.