Boston Bans E-Cigarettes in Workplaces, Just Because

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orachel

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Guys what noone has mentioned here is that its the big tobacco lobby that is lobbying lawmakers at state and federal level to classify all ecigs as tobacco devices. They're doing so because if it becomes harder and harder to smoke, yet ecigs aren't restricted in the same ways, then they'll lose 'to death us do part' diehard smoker clients just because ecigs are something you can use anywhere.... to say nothing of all of the tens upon tens of thousands of us that switched for health reasons to begin with. And based on some of the INSANE science coming out of big tobacco in the 60's and 70's, I can only imagine what sort of nonsense they've cooked up to back up their requests, and THOSE sorts of ludicrous studies are what lawmakers have available, because they're vocal and exerting influence over the lawmakers, as lobbyists do. Until there are active 'vaping for health' organizations exerting pressure back (though no way to really compete on an even level because of the billions of dollars in BT's pocket), this will continue to happen. The way PV's will be exonerated is the same way cigarettes were convicted back in the 60's... once enough reputable studies have been done and enough vocal organizations are pushing those studies out into public view, eventually the mock science bologna big tobacco is using against vaping will look insane next to the actual reputable evidence. That's one big reason (the only valid reason I can come up with, anyway) for vaping to be a tiny bit regulated (at least as much as clean facilities and safe standards, though I agree that's a super slippery slope), just so we can show that its somewhat idiot proof. So silly when people start talking about the dangers of vaping because there's batteries involved. Yes, there have been a few vaping related accidents, I can count them on one hand, and to my knowledge, they all involved unsafe use of batteries, ie: user error. Hello! Cigarettes require open flame 20-60x a day, you goofballs! You know how many people have been killed in smoking related housefires, to say nothing of the actual physical dangers of smoking! lol Yup, I just wanna shake the idiots awake, but that seems to be somewhat useless. ;)

And it really ticks me off when they start talking about taxing ecig stuff like cigarettes. Cigarettes cost taxpayers millions upon millions of dollars in public healthcare every single year... THAT's why they're taxed, or at least, a valid reason for them to be. Vaping doesn't cost 'the state' anything, and in fact vastly reduces cost because smokers who swtch to vaping will require much much less healthcare on the gov't's dime.
 
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DC2

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Guys what noone has mentioned here is that its the big tobacco lobby that is lobbying lawmakers at state and federal level to classify all ecigs as tobacco devices.
Actually, the efforts to include electronic cigarettes into no-smoking bans are being driven almost entirely by the "non-profit" health organizations and the "no-smoking" organizations. The ones leading the charge are those like the American Heart Association, American Lung Association, American Cancer Society, Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids, Americans for Non-Smokers Rights, and the American Legacy Foundation. These people are doing this because they are being paid by Big Pharma (see Robert Woods Johnson Foundation) to shill their useless quit-smoking products as the only acceptable way to quit-smoking.

They are also the ones who were behind the drive to get electronic cigarettes cigarettes declared drug delivery devices so that they could be essentially banned by the FDA a few years back. The only reason they did not succeed in that effort is because of a court decision which stopped them in their tracks. The idea to classify them as tobacco devices was one that was supported by most vapers, because it was the only viable alternative to being classified as a drug delivery device. It was also the idea that Judge Leon put forth in his ruling when he indicated that is how electronic cigarettes could and should be regulated.

You can get more background on this entire subject here...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ads-everything-relevant-njoy-vs-fda-case.html
 
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Vocalek

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DC2

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I have read most of these papers but the last one (public health law center) pdf is absolutely absurd. I have read so many ordinances to ban e-cigarettes and much of the language is directly from this "strategic" hog wash of the ANTZ.
If you can read that stuff then you have far more intestinal fortitude than I do.
Reading that stuff makes my blood boil and makes me want to puke.
 

kristin

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Cigarettes cost taxpayers millions upon millions of dollars in public healthcare every single year... THAT's why they're taxed, or at least, a valid reason for them to be. Vaping doesn't cost 'the state' anything, and in fact vastly reduces cost because smokers who swtch to vaping will require much much less healthcare on the gov't's dime.

Actually, taxpayers PROFIT off smokers.

"Smokers Cost Taxpayers $10 Billion" in 2007 while "states collected more than $19 billion in cigarette taxes."

Smokers Cost Taxpayers $10 Billion
Government Gets Hooked on Tobacco Tax Billions

That's a $9 billion dollar profit for taxpayers.
 
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Maestro

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The profit is actually higher than that. It's mostly all profit. We've been told for years that the taxes are needed to offset the high cost of health care due to smoking-related diseases. Sounds reasonable until you think it over more carefully and realize that people who don't smoke still get sick and they still die. The mortality rate of people is still 100%. If you stop smoking, all you've done is change what you're going to get sick and die from. All the other diseases are still going to require medical care. And if you look at it from a heartless, pure monetary point of view, keeping people alive longer is MORE expensive. Old age requires a lot of medical upkeep and it's by far the biggest drain. We all want to live a long time, regardless of the cost, and there's no doubt that quitting smoking will help with that. However, it's NOT axiomatic that smoking-related diseases are a drain on the system.
 

kristin

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I know, Maestro. This was just a clear cut and simple example. It does get more complicated when you figure in "productivity lost" but the folks who use that number usually don't also figure in shorter life spans reducing costs in social security, medical care and nursing homes - which are often also paid for by taxpayers. Apparently, it's more acceptable to pay and care for someone dying of old age, but not for someone dying of smoking related diseases 10 years before they'd die of old age anyhow.
 

rothenbj

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I know, Maestro. This was just a clear cut and simple example. It does get more complicated when you figure in "productivity lost" but the folks who use that number usually don't also figure in shorter life spans reducing costs in social security, medical care and nursing homes - which are often also paid for by taxpayers. Apparently, it's more acceptable to pay and care for someone dying of old age, but not for someone dying of smoking related diseases 10 years before they'd die of old age anyhow.

Plus the vast majority of that supposed productivity loss is creative accounting. From my experience, I only know of one smoker that died of a potential smoking related disease (heart attack) while still in the work force and he was self employed. I can recall seven other early deaths and none of them were current smokers with one that was an ex-smoker for a good six years.

As far as missing work, the worst, by far, were mothers and obese employees. I'm sure part of the "productivity cost" is estimated on a calculation based on the cost of smoke breaks which everyone likes to bring up. Productivity cost is a very questionable topic. Does someone that spends an extra four hours at work produce 50% more "productivity" than someone that only spends the required eight hours?
 

Myk

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Plus the vast majority of that supposed productivity loss is creative accounting. From my experience, I only know of one smoker that died of a potential smoking related disease (heart attack) while still in the work force and he was self employed. I can recall seven other early deaths and none of them were current smokers with one that was an ex-smoker for a good six years.

As far as missing work, the worst, by far, were mothers and obese employees. I'm sure part of the "productivity cost" is estimated on a calculation based on the cost of smoke breaks which everyone likes to bring up. Productivity cost is a very questionable topic. Does someone that spends an extra four hours at work produce 50% more "productivity" than someone that only spends the required eight hours?

I never could figure out the smoking break thing since the breaks are required by law whether you smoke or not.
 

KevNewEngland

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I never could figure out the smoking break thing since the breaks are required by law whether you smoke or not.
I think the smoke breaks that are talked about are the ones people take every hour or so, not the breaks you are referring to. When I smoked, that added up to about 40 minutes per day, not including the "regular" breaks.
 

Myk

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Where I work, they don't "give" them per se, but they allowed us to go outside when we wanted a smoke, as long as it wasn't excessive. I'm sure many, if not most places, don't allow that though.

Of course if they allowed smoking inside the whole break thing wouldn't be an issue.
That's like requiring dynamite for car bumpers and then complaining about cars exploding on impact.
 

TennDave

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Productivity was mentioned here. I know my work gets more out of me now that I vape- no longer do I take mid-morning and mid-afternoon breaks. I used to have to leave grounds to smoke so I would get in 3-4 cigs each break (and that's not to mention during my lunch hour). Now with vaping, I don't leave work and because of the nicotine I'm very focused and get more done than when I tried to cut out everything.
 

MightyWhighty

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Productivity was mentioned here. I know my work gets more out of me now that I vape- no longer do I take mid-morning and mid-afternoon breaks. I used to have to leave grounds to smoke so I would get in 3-4 cigs each break (and that's not to mention during my lunch hour). Now with vaping, I don't leave work and because of the nicotine I'm very focused and get more done than when I tried to cut out everything.

I had a similar experience. I get a lot more satisfaction off of a couple short vape breaks than I did chain smoking 3 cigs. Throughout the day I end up accidently 'forgetting' to take vape breaks because the process works so well.
 

sherid

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The problem lies with the anti-smokers and their goal of making smokers look like slacks rather than with smokers themselves. The fact that you had to go so far to have a cigarette is the problem, not the fact that you were a smoker. Seriously, folks, this craziness has to be confronted for what it is, an attempt to demonize smokers and in the process, anyone who "appears" to be smoking as in vaping. Either step up and confront them, or be prepared to have everything you do controlled by these people. It is way too late to simply accept their craziness. Do something about it. Your vape breaks, your snack breaks, and everything else in their way is on the way to the end.
 

TennDave

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Either step up and confront them, or be prepared to have everything you do controlled by these people. It is way too late to simply accept their craziness. Do something about it. Your vape breaks, your snack breaks, and everything else in their way is on the way to the end.
Oh, I could very easily. My problem is I would be out of a job if I did this- I work in the schools. I'm too old (52) to look for new work and being fired for any reason doesn't help one land a job elsewhere.
 
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