Bronchiolitis Obliterans

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ManiacMedic

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Currently suffering from difficulty breathing. Have quit vaping (or inhaling anything for that matter) and have an honest question...

Has there EVER been a true, documented case of Bronchiolitis Obliterans in the vaping community? I have not been able to find one, and i can only find about less than 20 reported cases from flavoring manufacturers. A few from the popcorn factory in '99-'01, a few at a dog food production facility, and a few at a coffee manufacturer. Any other documentation?
 

Sir2fyablyNutz

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Susan~S

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Hopefully you are seeking medical advise. Have not hear of anyone developing Bronchiolitis Obliterans from vaping.

Those of us concerned about diketones (diacetyl, Acetoin, and/or Acetyl Propionyl), try to avoid any "buttery, custard, creamy, rich, bakery" type flavors, and stay with tobaccos/fruits or deal with vendors who specifically list on their website whether diketones (diacetyl/acetyl propionyl) are used/possibly present.

1. Ahlusion
2. Mountain Oak Vapors has links to their lab reports in each juice description.
3. The Vapor Bar has the lab reports on their blog.
4. JuiceMafia has links to lab reports in some of their juice descriptions, and their report seems to cover a ton of their juices.
5. NicoTicket also openly discloses which of their flavors contain diketones.

Many members DIY and only use ingredients/vendors who verify ingredients. And, many members here choose to vape with no flavoring and enjoy it.

What are Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl and Acetoin?

I'll be interested in seeing what comes out of Dr. Farsalinos research on Temperature of evaporation, liquid consumption and vapor analysis in realistic conditions.

Dr. Farsalino's Scientific Blog - Dr Farsalino's Scientific Blog - E-cigarette Research
 

ManiacMedic

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Mar 31, 2015
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Hopefully you are seeking medical advise. Have not hear of anyone developing Bronchiolitis Obliterans from vaping.

Those of us concerned about diketones (diacetyl, Acetoin, and/or Acetyl Propionyl), try to avoid any "buttery, custard, creamy, rich, bakery" type flavors, and stay with tobaccos/fruits or deal with vendors who specifically list on their website whether diketones (diacetyl/acetyl propionyl) are used/possibly present.

1. Ahlusion
2. Mountain Oak Vapors has links to their lab reports in each juice description.
3. The Vapor Bar has the lab reports on their blog.
4. JuiceMafia has links to lab reports in some of their juice descriptions, and their report seems to cover a ton of their juices.
5. NicoTicket also openly discloses which of their flavors contain diketones.

Many members DIY and only use ingredients/vendors who verify ingredients. And, many members here choose to vape with no flavoring and enjoy it.

What are Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl and Acetoin?

I'll be interested in seeing what comes out of Dr. Farsalinos research on Temperature of evaporation, liquid consumption and vapor analysis in realistic conditions.

Dr. Farsalino's Scientific Blog - Dr Farsalino's Scientific Blog - E-cigarette Research

Do appreciate all the links. I am familiar with diketones (only after developing shortness of breath about 8 months ago) and am needless to say extremely disappointed. Vaping was something I had done to get healthier and I have, whether it be vaping related or not, have not seemed to had the results I desired. It did help me quit though! Just not in the way I had hoped.

I am seeing a medical professional, but I am currently at a standstill as I am awaiting my new insurance to begin. Currently between insurance at the moment. But I will definitely see an ENT and potentially a pulmologist and would really like to post all my findings here (in the health forums) for anyone experiencing similar issues.
 

Susan~S

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Do appreciate all the links. I am familiar with diketones (only after developing shortness of breath about 8 months ago) and am needless to say extremely disappointed. Vaping was something I had done to get healthier and I have, whether it be vaping related or not, have not seemed to had the results I desired. It did help me quit though! Just not in the way I had hoped.

Your problems may have nothing to do with vaping. I've been vaping almost 9 years and have had no problems even vaping flavors that did have diketones (before we even knew they were a problem).
 

Bootiewootsy

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I have asthma and have no problems vaping.
If you do research on quiting cigarettes you will find that most people suffer from not being able to take a deep breath at times, which comes from the withdrawal of smoking the cigarette. I had quit smoking one time cold turkey and asked my doctor why I was so short of breath, and he advised me that the smoke kills the cilla hairs and they are the reason of the shortness of breath, so I asked if I went back to smoking would I be able to walk or make a bed without this shortness of breath.. I went back to the smokes and the shortness of breath left..
I really wanted to quit smoking, so last year I decided to give vaping a chance, I never took another cigarette, it was hard at times and yes I suffered from shortness of breath, but using my nebulizer and other asthma meds I continued to vap.. Now I only have the shortness of breath maybe once every other month, it continues to get better with time. I had researched other smokers that had quit on the internet and found that many had that problem..
I don't think it has any thing to do with your vaping.. Just my experience talking.
Good luck
Carol
 

Robino1

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Currently suffering from difficulty breathing. Have quit vaping (or inhaling anything for that matter) and have an honest question...

Has there EVER been a true, documented case of Bronchiolitis Obliterans in the vaping community? I have not been able to find one, and i can only find about less than 20 reported cases from flavoring manufacturers. A few from the popcorn factory in '99-'01, a few at a dog food production facility, and a few at a coffee manufacturer. Any other documentation?

Since you are having a problem finding one, chances are that it has not happened? I have not heard of a case within ECF nor have I come across any old postings regarding this.
 

ManiacMedic

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I have asthma and have no problems vaping.
If you do research on quiting cigarettes you will find that most people suffer from not being able to take a deep breath at times, which comes from the withdrawal of smoking the cigarette. I had quit smoking one time cold turkey and asked my doctor why I was so short of breath, and he advised me that the smoke kills the cilla hairs and they are the reason of the shortness of breath, so I asked if I went back to smoking would I be able to walk or make a bed without this shortness of breath.. I went back to the smokes and the shortness of breath left..
I really wanted to quit smoking, so last year I decided to give vaping a chance, I never took another cigarette, it was hard at times and yes I suffered from shortness of breath, but using my nebulizer and other asthma meds I continued to vap.. Now I only have the shortness of breath maybe once every other month, it continues to get better with time. I had researched other smokers that had quit on the internet and found that many had that problem..
I don't think it has any thing to do with your vaping.. Just my experience talking.
Good luck
Carol

I didnt smoke a single cigarette for over 1 year while I was vaping. Not entirely convinced this is the cause. Possibly having underlying asthma hidden by inhaling whatever substance I was inhaling at the time (cigarettes, vapor). But you are absolutely correct, it is a normal symptom of smoking cessation.
 

ManiacMedic

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Since you are having a problem finding one, chances are that it has not happened? I have not heard of a case within ECF nor have I come across any old postings regarding this.

I believe either this is the case (which would just mean more fear mongering, which we see enough of in the vaping community) or that it is misdiagnosed as COPD, in which case we would never know.

I dont believe it has happened honestly, as research shows it would take a high concentration for a long period of time, and although I was chain vaping, it wasnt attached to a gas mask for 8-12 hours a day.
 

Robino1

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I don't know if you have found this thread yet: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...hen-quitting-tobacco-changing-ecigarette.html

Section 8 may be of note.
Section 8: Assorted notes


1. Medical reports of illness
The lack of official medical reports of illness linked to e-cigarettes is extraordinary. After global use by millions of people for many years, there is not one single confirmed report of mortality linked positively to e-cigarette use; morbidities are minimal and not recognised as serious. Prof Rodu examined the 47 serious adverse event reports received by the FDA for e-cigarettes (compared with >10,000 for Chantix over the almost identical period following their near-simultaneous introduction), and reported on the extraordinarily low number of credible adverse events. Even common medications such as aspirin could not achieve this record. It indicates that e-cigarettes are best thought of as a food product like coffee, since no medication can replicate this accomplishment.
Note: there are rare cases of issues with long-term abuse of NRTs but such cases are so uncommon they are not considered clinically significant (they are not even identifiable statistically); and ecigs do not even have this level of issue.

Be very careful indeed in ascribing this to a lack of monitoring of some form: e-cigarettes are far more closely and carefully observed than any pharmaceutical.

2. Tendency to assign all new symptoms to e-cigarette use
There is a strong compulsion in many people to assume that all/any new medical symptoms must be related to their new electronic cigarette usage. In 99% of cases these are found to be normal symptoms of tobacco withdrawal which they were unaware of - such symptoms are very wide-ranging and can occur for up to six months. In some cases, a full check-up reveals there is an unrelated medical issue. Finally, some symptoms are due to intolerance to a particular brand of e-liquid or type of ingredient.

3. Minor specific e-liquid issues
In some cases, people are intolerant to ingredients in a range of liquids from one vendor. The answer is to try some from other vendors.

It should be carefully noted that it is extremely unlikely that all materials offered by all vendors can be consumed by all users with no adverse consequences - somebody, somewhere, will be intolerant to one or more ingredients. One answer would be to try to exclude e-cigarettes or identify the e-liquid or the ingredient causing the problem, by doing the following, in order:

1. Reduce the strength of nicotine, since some symptoms may be nicotine OD.
2. Stop using flavorings that are known to have implications. Cinnamon, vanilla/vanillin, capsaicin (chilli extract), and dark food colorings (e.g. coffee) are likely to cause problems for some (or even many) people - and this is not a complete list. Diacetyl (butter popcorn flavor) is highly toxic and should never be inhaled as it can cause a degenerative lung disease, bronchiolitis obliterans.
3. Cease using e-liquids with long ingredient lists. For sensitive people, the less ingredients the better.
4. Stop using any e-liquid except a type known not to cause problems, such as a low nicotine strength VG liquid with a good reputation for purity. For example, genuine Ecopure at 12mg would be a good choice. All the flavors in this range are very mild, and little has been added to the basic liquid.
But: note the caution on emphysema and VG-based liquid.
5. Try a different cartridge filler material or cartomizer type, to eliminate the possibility of inhaling burnt filler/batting.
6. Change to Swedish Snus temporarily (instead of going back to smoking) and see the effect.

One or more of these actions should help you find out if the culprit is e-cigarette use, and if so, exactly which factor is the problem. More than nine out of ten problems result from tobacco withdrawal or other medical issues; the remainder are normally intolerance to an ingredient or ingredients used by a particular vendor.
 

ManiacMedic

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Your problems may have nothing to do with vaping. I've been vaping almost 9 years and have had no problems even vaping flavors that did have diketones (before we even knew they were a problem).

Very true. And I hope they do not. I just really hate to see people in this community instantly discard symptoms as not applicable to vaping. There is a strong possibility that there will be long term effects, given that if you do anything for a long period of time on a daily basis, especially with an organ system as sensitive as the respiratory tract and lungs, there will be some sort of ill effect. This may still make it safer than smoking, unless someone can find a documented case of some sort of damage happening in the short term (ie <18mo). This would then be concerning. This is all im truly asking.
 

Bootiewootsy

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When I starting vaping I took my vp with me to the Dr appointment. He agreed with me that it is much better than smoking and nic has no ill effects when used in the manner in which we use it to vap. He also wished it had been available to his father as he could not give up smoking and died as a result. Of course if we didn't use any thing but the air we breath we might be better off, but then the air has itself is no longer pure.
I hate to see anyone talk about vaping in a negatice way.. If it is not for you then just stop vaping..
I find for me it is the best thing that could have happened. Hopefully I will get my husband off the cigs also.
I think as mentioned before you may have copd as I have it also with asthma. You don't have to smoke to get copd.. Just shows you how clear our air is that we breath eveyday.
I don't mean to be harsh, but please don't put the blame on vaping...
All the best to you.
Carol
 

xtwosm0kesx

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If you look at the numbers in Dr. F's diacetyl study, even the worst offenders of the diacetyl containing juices were still significantly lower than the diacetyl observed in mainstream cigarette smoke, so the diacetyl (and diketones by proxy) likely aren't the issue.

Though i do agree they probably shouldn't be in our liquids.

Best of luck!
 

xtwosm0kesx

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I think your chances of getting this from vaping are about as good as getting attacked by a Great White or struck by lightning.

There are only two documented cases of lipoid pneumonia from vaping that I know of, but there you go, VG is already much more of a potential risk in vaping than diacetyl ever will be.

Uhh, can you provide the links for these confirmed cases, because based on the science i've read, its not even possible to get lipoid pneumonia via vaping PG/VG.
 

Hitmetwice

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Very true. And I hope they do not. I just really hate to see people in this community instantly discard symptoms as not applicable to vaping. There is a strong possibility that there will be long term effects, given that if you do anything for a long period of time on a daily basis, especially with an organ system as sensitive as the respiratory tract and lungs, there will be some sort of ill effect. This may still make it safer than smoking, unless someone can find a documented case of some sort of damage happening in the short term (ie <18mo). This would then be concerning. This is all im truly asking.


You know that many of us were long term smokers, 40 years myself. When you say in your post
" there is a strong possibility that there will be long term effects......" of course, there is a ton of evidence on the harms of smoking. This damage doesn't just disappear when we quit and start vaping. Could vaping continue to irritate the preexisting condition? Possibly but next to impossible to prove given all the damage that's already been done to our respiratory system from years of smoking. Quitting smoking was our goal, smoking kills vaping saves.

This may still make it safer than smoking, unless someone can find a documented case of some sort of damage happening in the short term (ie <18mo). This would then be concerning.

Perhaps, a little, but unless it's totally fabricated and specific important details are left out, like in a headline or something you will not find it. It's a non-starter.

We each make our choices in life and if a neversmoker takes up vaping it's their choice to make and they will have to accept the consequences, if any, of their actions.
Just like smokers/drinkers/gamblers/drug users.

I'd personally hate to see one person that will not take any of the responsibility for their actions, continue to vape and not only hurt themselves but then turn around and effectively kill an entire industry and potentially miilions of smokers that have yet to switch to vaping because they simply do not take the entire responsibility for their own health.
Millions of lives are better off for vaping. Should one persons illness be concerning? NO.

You now know what's bugging me, I sincerely hope you find what's bugging you.
I do doubt however you'll find the answer here.:vapor: All the best. Cheers.
 

Bunnykiller

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I think your chances of getting this from vaping are about as good as getting attacked by a Great White or struck by lightning.

There are only two documented cases of lipoid pneumonia from vaping that I know of, but there you go, VG is already much more of a potential risk in vaping than diacetyl ever will be.

not looking good for me then..... Ive been hit by lightning...
 
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