BSD's vertical hollow core Micro Coil build for ARO, Evod, and Protank heads.

[kgs-wy]

As an aside, I'm currently vaping with a 60/40 PG/VG blend...

Here's the pics I promised in my last post...

The starter's the original coil I was making... At least until an errant, sneaky, horribly powerful sneeze made me rip the negative leg completely off...

Two's the coil sittin' nice and snug in its new home... I'n' it cute?

Three's the view down the coil-pipe to show that, indeed, it's got a nice, clean airpath (looks obstructed in this pic, but that's just a bit of motion blur... )

Fourth up is the coil firing on my SI X2, around a second into the firing from a completely cool coil.

The fifth pic's my, erm... Slightly overpacked wick setup... The cotton is Walgreen's organic cotton balls. I boiled 'em twice 'cause I could smell just a hint of hydrogen peroxide... And what do ya know? They use it to whiten the cotton... Then again, I'm sensitive to certain odors and aromas, so it might've just been my overly sensitive nose...

And finally, the clearo head primed, assembled and ready to go into the tank section of the clearo.

Question for everyone: is it readily apparent, at least from the pics, as to how tightly packed I had the cotton in this? If it is to other people, then I'm going to use this as a general impression as to whether I'm packing it too tightly or not. Granted, this is a SI T3 clearo, and might be quite a bit different than a Kanger with the same setup, at least insomuch as pack density, etc. are concerned, so other peopl's mileage may vary as compared to mine... ::shrugs::

anyway, re-wicking this tomorrow with a bit of a looser pack, and may turn the stem gasket around if it leads to flooding or leaking. But, as it stands, if a looser pack keeps it goin' without the cotton burning? I'll be incredibly happy with it!

Good luck to everyone else tryin' this, and keep on vaping!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

 

[Ken B]

Great pics KG. Very useful for others here. The packing is so subjective, and I am struggling with this too.

Currently looking for a packing washer as per BSDs idea, but I need to trial different densities of cotton myself.

Well done anyway.

 

[WolfeTX]

I am really liking this idea! I have tried a couple myself and seem to be working great. I do think i need to invest in some magnifying glasses. My 2x readers just do not cut it for these little coils.

 

[Trayce]

Re-wicked 2 Aro heads tonight using this method with 30g k. Used the mini screwdriver that came with my IGO-L for one coil, (12 or 13 wraps) which came out at 2.4ohms. This little screwdriver is slightly smaller that a 3/32 bit. Then I did the second coil with a thinner thing I had laying around (giant metal paperclip straightened out) and that one came out to 2ohms.

The first coil works well. The second head/coil kept flooding due to (I think) the microcoil not touching at every coil, perhaps letting juice seep through? It also had a smaller ID so the draw was tighter, pulling more juice in. Tried everything to stop the flooding but to no avail. Will stick with using the screwdriver.

I had already switched to cotton wicks recently and so was getting good vapor and flavor before and didn't really notice an appreciable difference with the vertical coil configuration. Though if it lasts longer or has other advantages over the long run, it would be worth doing. (And it's fun to play with different mods anyway.) But it didn't really get a fair trial as I spent so long trying to get the smaller coil to work. Tomorrow when I'm fresh I might see more of a difference. But this 30g k is sure a lot easier to work with for some reason than the 32g I have.

 

[johnlacie]

Wow. Just tried this and it's working great. Thanks BSD!

I've tried this configuration in the past couple of years but was always hampered by needing a single connection post to hold the top end of the coil. Tried using a stainless steel post on my home made atomizers and would wrap the resistance wire like you would on a "Genesis Line SS". These didn't really work out well and gave up. Didn't realize that there was not much need for the post and the out come would be simpler.

BTW, I used a 28 gauge Kanthal wrapped around a 18 gauge syringe needle and had a 1.8 ohm reading. I installed the coil while still on the needle. The cotton was also wrapped lightly around the needle and gently pushed down to the coil. I removed the needle last after everything was assembled (including the "chimney") which should have ensured that the coil was aligned and the center hole was completely hollow. Real easy and quick! Thanks again.

 

[Big Screen D]

Re-wicked 2 Aro heads tonight using this method with 30g k. Used the mini screwdriver that came with my IGO-L for one coil, (12 or 13 wraps) which came out at 2.4ohms. This little screwdriver is slightly smaller that a 3/32 bit. Then I did the second coil with a thinner thing I had laying around (giant metal paperclip straightened out) and that one came out to 2ohms.

The first coil works well. The second head/coil kept flooding due to (I think) the microcoil not touching at every coil, perhaps letting juice seep through? It also had a smaller ID so the draw was tighter, pulling more juice in. Tried everything to stop the flooding but to no avail. Will stick with using the screwdriver.

I had already switched to cotton wicks recently and so was getting good vapor and flavor before and didn't really notice an appreciable difference with the vertical coil configuration. Though if it lasts longer or has other advantages over the long run, it would be worth doing. (And it's fun to play with different mods anyway.) But it didn't really get a fair trial as I spent so long trying to get the smaller coil to work. Tomorrow when I'm fresh I might see more of a difference. But this 30g k is sure a lot easier to work with for some reason than the 32g I have.

Yep, I ran into the same problem with a smaller diameter coil Trayce. Think what happens is twofold. Like you said, as the draw gets tighter, it will pull more juice from the tank. And I'd also notice that when I would try to look through the coil, it would be filled with juice which I think is because the smaller diameter allows juice to bridge the coil due to surface tension.

 

[Big Screen D]

As an aside, I'm currently vaping with a 60/40 PG/VG blend...

Here's the pics I promised in my last post...

The starter's the original coil I was making... At least until an errant, sneaky, horribly powerful sneeze made me rip the negative leg completely off...

Two's the coil sittin' nice and snug in its new home... I'n' it cute?

Three's the view down the coil-pipe to show that, indeed, it's got a nice, clean airpath (looks obstructed in this pic, but that's just a bit of motion blur... )

Fourth up is the coil firing on my SI X2, around a second into the firing from a completely cool coil.

The fifth pic's my, erm... Slightly overpacked wick setup... The cotton is Walgreen's organic cotton balls. I boiled 'em twice 'cause I could smell just a hint of hydrogen peroxide... And what do ya know? They use it to whiten the cotton... Then again, I'm sensitive to certain odors and aromas, so it might've just been my overly sensitive nose...

And finally, the clearo head primed, assembled and ready to go into the tank section of the clearo.

Question for everyone: is it readily apparent, at least from the pics, as to how tightly packed I had the cotton in this? If it is to other people, then I'm going to use this as a general impression as to whether I'm packing it too tightly or not. Granted, this is a SI T3 clearo, and might be quite a bit different than a Kanger with the same setup, at least insomuch as pack density, etc. are concerned, so other peopl's mileage may vary as compared to mine... ::shrugs::

anyway, re-wicking this tomorrow with a bit of a looser pack, and may turn the stem gasket around if it leads to flooding or leaking. But, as it stands, if a looser pack keeps it goin' without the cotton burning? I'll be incredibly happy with it!

Good luck to everyone else tryin' this, and keep on vaping!

-Laters...!
kgs-wy

Great pics!

Pack seems about right to me, but as one would guess, it's hard to tell from even good photo's. I'd turn the cup around though. It'll get plenty of juice. More likely to have too much flow, than not enough with this type of coil. There's a lot more cotton to coil ratio than on a horizontal build.

Couple of things that's instructive from the photos for people. Notice in the pic of the coil being fired, the negative leg and even the last turn of the coil are not red hot. Magic of micro coils in all it's glory. Once that leg is buried under wet cotton, it'll stay nice and cool.

Also note that the negative leg is turned away from the juice opening. That's exactly what we want since it allows the filler density to be nice and even at the juice passageway.

 

[Big Screen D]

Thanks so much! Got my 30g Kanthal today so am about to dive in!



Great tips but you and those darn jewelers glasses that let you see everything like it's under a microscope! I'll be lucky if I can even see the negative leg once that coil gets lowered into the cup. I'm going to slip some cotton between it and the coil before I install it (and take out my contacts so I can see better!).



Interesting. Do you notice a difference in taste? What made you initially use Nichrome over Kanthal?

I used Nichrome because the only Kanthal I had was 32ga. I ordered a roll of Kanthal since I only had a small amount of the Nichrome left. In hindsight, I sort of wished I had just gotten more Nichrome since I can get 15 wraps or so with it and hit my target of 2ohms. I'm using most of these in my Billet Box which has a voltage range of 4 to 5.5v. 2 ohms is just perfect since it allows me to use the full voltage range, yet stay within the mods 3 amp limit.

 

[Trayce]

Yep, I ran into the same problem with a smaller diameter coil Trayce. Think what happens is twofold. Like you said, as the draw gets tighter, it will pull more juice from the tank. And I'd also notice that when I would try to look through the coil, it would be filled with juice which I think is because the smaller diameter allows juice to bridge the coil due to surface tension.

EXACTLY. I saw the same. I'd blow through the head to clear it, then peer through and see a nice clean passage, but within a second or two liquid would bridge the coil, just like you say.

One thing I noticed with the wire... this new 30g I got from Temco Industries (eBay) is "Annealed" and it is much easier to work with. It keeps the shape I put it in without much spring and feels a little stiffer than the 32g. The 32g is not "annealed" but only takes on that stiffer property after I've torched it, so I guess "annealed" means it was heated. IAC I like the 30g annealed a LOT more than the 32g stuff, and when the skinny coil didn't work out I whipped out a quick standard coil for that tank (was late and just wanted a working head in it) and it came out at 1.7ohms and with a fat cotton wick, hits fantazmic. But am looking forward to making more new vertical coils ... right now!

Thanks again, BSD for all the great guidance and help!

I used Nichrome because the only Kanthal I had was 32ga. I ordered a roll of Kanthal since I only had a small amount of the Nichrome left. In hindsight, I sort of wished I had just gotten more Nichrome since I can get 15 wraps or so with it and hit my target of 2ohms. I'm using most of these in my Billet Box which has a voltage range of 4 to 5.5v. 2 ohms is just perfect since it allows me to use the full voltage range, yet stay within the mods 3 amp limit.

Do you notice any other differences between Nichrome and Kanthal? Some ppl report Nichrome adding a metallic flavor.

 

[Big Screen D]

I don't notice any metallic taste with the Nichrome Trayce. Could be just me tho.

While I personally don't have issues with objectionable taste from cotton, some of which I'm sure has to do with me gravitating toward flavorful juices such as Boba's Bounty, NLV Gold etc., I've been thinking of some modifications that could be tested.

Thinking a filler sandwich so to speak. A layer of dense cotton first until it covers the first coil or two at the bottom, them juice dampened silica or ekowool, topped by a final layer of cotton with cotton tails sealing up the juice hole.

Just thought I'd throw that out there before I head down to the man cave for the Saints game after which the odds of me being able to type a coherent sentence will be nil.

 

[Trayce]

I don't notice any metallic taste with the Nichrome Trayce. Could be just me tho.

While I personally don't have issues with objectionable taste from cotton, some of which I'm sure has to do with me gravitating toward flavorful juices such as Boba's Bounty, NLV Gold etc., I've been thinking of some modifications that could be tested.

Thinking a filler sandwich so to speak. A layer of dense cotton first until it covers the first coil or two at the bottom, them juice dampened silica or ekowool, topped by a final layer of cotton with cotton tails sealing up the juice hole.

Interesting! First, as to cotton tasting bad, for SURE some 100% cotton tastes bad and should be avoided. I tried Koger cotton balls (bleh!), Joanne's Sugar & Cream 100% cotton yarn (bleh!), and Lion's organic cotton yarn (bleh!). They tasted horrid, like steamed, wet laundry, and that was after boiling and drying. And the taste doesn't go away. I personally got a similar (but less strong) taste from Qtips. But when you find the right cotton, (as many here know) there is only a plain-old-cotton taste for the first handful of vapes, then it quickly goes away. (For me Whole Foods certified organic cotton balls, boiled and dried, worked beautifully. Others prefer CVS sterile rolled cotton, Walgreens organic cotton balls, or Peaches & Cream Ecru yarn from Walmart, to name a few.) But I will say that with so much more cotton in the vertical coil head it takes a little longer for the cotton taste to go away, but not much.

As to making an oreo of cotton enclosing silica or ekowool, I wonder how the different wicking properties would affect performance? It would seem you don't have to worry about silica motes with cotton on the bottom and top. Sounds interesting to try just for the heck of it, even if cotton isn't a problem for you.

Just thought I'd throw that out there before I head down to the man cave for the Saints game after which the odds of me being able to type a coherent sentence will be nil.

LOL!! A break well earned and deserved!

 

[Vchick]

Thanks for a great idea! Just tried one on a dead-head...

I must say 6mg never had such a great throat hit, definately one to give future consideration to when all my others die..

 

[Trayce]

Made two more vertical coils and took pictures all along the way to try to compete with kgs ... but alas both had a hot leg that burned the grommet, tasted awful and had to be discarded.

After initial successes I'm really striking out here. For me the tricky part (at least now) is bending the legs down properly from the coil without misforming or screwing up the coil. What am I doing wrong to get a hot leg? And how do you bend the legs down, Big Screen (or anyone)? Do you use needle nose to get a nice uniform bend, or just your fingers, or... ?? I am careful to make sure the neg and pos legs are on opposite sides of the coil but I'm doing something wrong. (Funny, my first 3 came out fine, albeit the third was too narrow.)

 

[Big Screen D]

Yah, that can be a pain Trayce. Had a harder time with the 28ga getting the legs bent and placed like I wanted due to the extra stiffness. Hot leg happens when the micro coil has a spot that is no longer touching. Try bending the legs while holding the coils together with the tweezers, then when the legs are bent like you want, torch the coil. That's what I had to do with the 28ga. And be careful adjusting the coil in the cup so the coil doesn't get separated.

 

[anit77]

Here's one I did over the weekend.
Don't think I did a bad job for my 1st micro coil.

The bit is 5/64 and the screw driver is about half that diameter. Using 30ga kanthal and wrapping it around the driver. It came in right at 1.9-2.0 ohms.

Don't know if I've got enough juice to power it with a twist though. It never really produced a good amount of vapor and the taste wasn't to good. The draw was tighter too. I think I packed way to much cotton to start with. Even with priming it till it was saturated and letting it sit for 5min after attaching the Mini Protank it tasted like burnt cotton for the fist few pulls then it mellowed out some but still not good. I'm using Walgreens organic.

So I pulled all the packing out and made a fairly loose roll about an inch and a half long and left a bit hanging out the side of the cup and slowly worked it in with the little screw driver going around the cup till the cup was full and I had enough to just stick out the other side of it. The flavor was much better but the volume of vapor was still much less than a stock 1.8 ohm coil.

Then I decided to make a 28ga 12 wrap using the drill bit put in horizontally. It took forever to heat up, even at 4.8V. So it tried one with the same number of wraps with 32ga, didn't even try it as the ohms were over 4. 8 wraps of 32 was the ticket for ohms but still not enough vapor.

I really wanted this to work. Don't know it I still need to work on the packing, if I'm doing something else wrong or if I'm just lacking the power...

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[johnlacie]

Made two more vertical coils and took pictures all along the way to try to compete with kgs ... but alas both had a hot leg that burned the grommet, tasted awful and had to be discarded.

After initial successes I'm really striking out here. For me the tricky part (at least now) is bending the legs down properly from the coil without misforming or screwing up the coil. What am I doing wrong to get a hot leg? And how do you bend the legs down, Big Screen (or anyone)? Do you use needle nose to get a nice uniform bend, or just your fingers, or... ?? I am careful to make sure the neg and pos legs are on opposite sides of the coil but I'm doing something wrong. (Funny, my first 3 came out fine, albeit the third was too narrow.)

While the coil was still on the needle, I pulled the legs into position using a pliers while I gripped on the coil using my finger nails to stop it from unwinding. The legs were not fully bent but I didn't remove the coil from the needle when I installed everything including the cotton. I just pulled out the needle after ensuring that the coil was centered and the cotton didn't fill in the center.

 

[Big Screen D]

On my phone anit so I can't see real well. Think it's an airflow problem. Coil looks off center. Definitely will run on a twist.

 

[anit77]

I didn't have my caliper at home. The id of the coil is definitely smaller than the air hole in the center pin. I'm going to make one slightly bigger and take a wrap off if needed. Hopefully I can find the right balance.

*Edit: You know it could be the juice I'm using too. I love JC TC and I bet it doesn't like that coil at all. I measured a very similar screwdriver to the one I used and it came out to .0465", an 18ga needle is .050"
I'm thinking if I can find something around .055-.060" with a better suited juice I might find a winner.

Where in GA are you at BSD?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[Big Screen D]

Not far from you anit. Down in Loganville.

Your coil size seems to be spot on. In the pic, it just looked to be off center from the positive pin air passage. Could just be the pic angle IDK. Did ya dry fire the coil before packing to insure the micro coil glowed evenly inside to out with no hot leg?

Otherwise, like you said, it's just a mater of getting the feel of how much cotton to use for your particular juice and mod. When you get it right, you'll know. Once I dialed my first in, it was one of those holy smokes moments. No pun intended lol. Hence, my holy grail of coil analogy.

I have one that needs a good cleaning tonight. I'm going to try a multi density pack. Plan is to pack a tight ring about as high as the bottom of the coil, then a looser pack to almost the top of the coil, then twist a couple of tight pieces to plug the juice passage.

Also have some Lovepedal hemp inbound since I like that better than cotton for horizontal builds, and seeing BJ had good success in his vertical build, I want to try it. The hemp I have here is too course to make a proper pack with.

 

[Big Screen D]

Rough night at the workbench. Had to meditate a bit to find my mojo. Had to redo three of em! WTH.

Here's the deal with the cotton pack. Once the initial ring of cotton around the bottom part of the coil is in place, finish with strands that start from one side of the coil, then the other, and out through the wick holes. What this does is maintains a relatively loose pack over most of the coil while still getting enough cotton in the juice holes to control the flow. Oh, and leave enough space between the coil and the negative leg so you can work a little cotton between the two with a needle. YMMV depending on juice viscosity and draw of your particular device and mod. Have to be prepared for a little trial and error here.

Hope the pic below illustrates what I'm trying to describe. Once primed and the stem placed, the tails are trimmed close.